Praise Song Cruncher by Table Talk Radio

[Bluelion]

When I survey the Wondrous Cross
The Old Rugged Cross
To God be the Glory
Jesus paid it all

Do these hymns move your heart?

It depends on how they are sung and with what life behind them. I find choir music so prim and proper i fall asleep, It does not matter what they are saying there seems to be void of life in it, it does not move me. I was a music major when I first entered college at 18 and was for 3 years. They all asked me how I could play the way I did. i never had to practice classical music, it was simple compared to what i like to play. The music department could hit all the notes, put they could not produce a song which moved people. If you can't speak to peoples hearts it does not matter what you are saying.

I knew a pastor who would compare super hero to Jesus in order to reach people. This pastor understood where people were. Jesus did the same thing He spoke to peoples hearts. He lived among them ate with them drank with them. this is how you reach people by being one of them. Not by acting Holy, Jesus was Holy but never acted what was thought to be Holy in those days. the temple rejected Him and that was the symbol of Holy. Paul is right we should not argue over debatable matters. It maybe be wrong for you to listen to the music i like, but that does not mean it is wrong for me. I don't like heavy metal which speaks about God i feel that is not The Spirit of God, so it is wrong for me to worship God their way, but that does not mean its wrong for them. Maybe the words move them, I can not say if it is right or wrong, i do not know for sure, all i know is its wrong for me.

 

[Bluelion]

Hey blue,

You know, Phillips, Craig and Dean were brought up here and I just have to take this opportunity to say that one of their most favorite songs to me, is 'I want to be just like you'. That song was my battle standard in raising my son and I can fully and faithfully and thankfully testify that God faithfully upheld His promise to me in that.

By raising my son up, I don't mean that I took him to fellowship services, although I did, but that I raised him up to know God. When he would act up, which honestly was very, very rarely, my question to him was always, 'Son, do you think God is pleased with what you did?' I never made it about me and my expectations for him, but rather God and His expectations for him. When putting him to bed at the ages of 5 and 6 or so, I didn't read him fairy tale books, but we read through the Proverbs of the Scriptures. Each night I would sit with him lying in bed and I'd read a chapter of the proverbs. I have to say that I'm glad he didn't ask a lot of questions when we got to the parts about the wayward wife. On family trips we talked about the things of God. What the Scriptures said about this or that. I raised my son in the way that I believe God commanded Israel to raise their children. Not to leave it to some body of people that we call the church; not to leave it to the school system or friends and relatives, but for me to take an active and participatory position in teaching my son through the Scriptures, the things of our God, His Son, His Spirit and His word.

Friend, today my son is bright, loving, caring, successful in both his faith and his career endeavors. He has never once raised his voice to either me or his mother. Neither of us have ever once had to raise our hand against him. He has never been in trouble in school or among society. He is a staunch YEC believer and supporter and I give all the glory to God. I fully understand and comprehend that it was not anything that I did, but rather what God did with what I gave him. And I love God even more that He has kept that promise to me towards my son. Praise God!

I can also provide testimony for what often happens to children who are raised without such instruction as God commands of parents. I talk with 'christian' parents all the time that are having problems with their children and when I ask if they have followed God's command in raising them, they invariably tell me that, yes, they always carried them to church. My testimony is that taking your children to church isn't what God commanded in this. He asks that we, the parents, teach our children about Him. That we talk about the things of God with them when we rise up and when we lie down and as we travel along the pathways. I encourage that it be done as soon as they are old enough to begin reading.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Wow i think I just got convicted. i speak to my son about God but not near enough. I've got to do better. I spend a lot of time telling people about God and neglect my own son. I made sure my son was saved, Happens Just this spring, and I asked for God to give me a sign He had him and He did. Both my kids are my step kids, my oldest is an atheist. they have two different dads, my youngest will be 8 in jan. No one wanted him, my youngest. i met my wife and she became pregnant while we were dating but it was only online between us then. The dad a drug user, offered to pay for half the abortion, and skip town. My wife told me her potions, this was the second time a girl friend of mine got pregnant with another guys child and asked if i would raise the child. The first time i was 17 and a kid my self and said no. When my wife asked what I would do i told her I had to talk to God, i would let her know. I could not raise the child of my first girl friend because I was jealous she had cheated, i knew I could never be fair to that child. So this is what I had to talk to God with about my wife, would i be jealous of the child. Got gave me a heart because as i sat out in the dark looking at the stars talking to God, i knew I could raise this child and be fair to him. I was not jealous. My wife got evicted from her house, the foreclosed, with out my boy dad in the picture my wife could not pay the bills and he had not been living at the house in over a year. My wife and our oldest son stayed with her ex step dad. My wife Got a job. i was trying to help her from 800 miles away and it was not working. My mom wanted me out because i had been playing part of her house payment but she had a new boyfriend who was married to her best friend, and I did not approve and demanded my mom break it off, My brother did stated the same. My mom went go a restraining order against us putting us out of the house in 15 min with out our stuff, my mom had done it before, She had a friend who's son was a police officer they got together lied to judge and had it done. When we went to court we found out what the lies were my mom was saying we were trying to murder her. we did not care what she said my brother was moving and I already had a new place to live. So we made a deal she could keep the order if she let us get our stuff, she agreed, by my stuff was sold by her. So after that I said to my wife i have nothing and can't help from 800 miles I'll just move up there so I did.

I went to all her doctor appointments got two jobs, and took care of her and baby, my oldest son went to live with his dad his choice. My wife was scared to have our son, she wanted to put him up for adoption I said no I would raise him. i felll in love with him while he was in my wife's stomach, I was there the day he born in the room by c section because he was not getting blood from the cord. I held his hand while the nurses cleaned him up, i held him with my wife while she was still on the table and they were working on her. For the first two year i was a stay at home dad,. we did everything together. one day i got scared because my love for my son reminding me of Abraham love for his child. i worried it was inter fearing with God, So in a moment I prayed, told God how much I love my son, and said i give him to you God. Short time later i got sick and was in the hospital, my sons dad was back in the picture with his mom, because he had almost gone to jail for not paying child support and mommy had to pay it, so they wanted my son. They talked my wife into signing a way all her rights, but told her it was only joint custody, then they refused to let us see him, when i got out of the hospital i fought for a year to gain rights to see him with my wife. then fought for another year to be able to take him home with us. they would do things like delay hearings as many times as they could, or move it to a different judge. So finally they caved in when they were about lose rights. we still have no rights to him, but they let him see us because we have so much on them, we could get it. my son lives with his grandma, his dad is still off and on drugs. we did not have a room for our son so we are looking at getting a house next year. God is working because they are sick of having my son now, and my son wants to come home to us, and I don't think they will fight it any more. I guess when i gave my son to God i never thought God would take him away, but He is Gods first mine second. maybe that is what it took for him to be saved, but he is saved now. So that is the deal with my youngest. sorry for it so long guess i was chatty tonight.

 

[mikedsjr]

Blue, so it is about the beat and not the words. That's the issue I liked the cruncher. It removes the music. It's about the words. It has nothing to do with music. I don't care how much the music moves me, I read the words. I want to believe the message. You might as well be playing Coldplay, at least for me, if it's about the moving part. I could turn raise my hands like I'm worshipping God during those songs. I've caught myself in the car doing that and thought, "that's all worship music is today". Just put the word God and love in the song together and people will claim its worship so long the music is a good band that can seduce emotions.

When I read How He loves, it makes no sense. It takes a bit of work to figure it out, if any of the meanings here are correct. But what you get in Church is this

He is Jealous for me
Loves like a hurricane
I am a tree.


Next slide

I can't see anything there for me to doctrinally say "yes, I agree. I'm a tree". Scripture doesn't say I'm a tree or Gods like a hurricane. So I have issue taking this in. I'm looking for sound doctrine. The only time I read in Scripture that God is a jealous God is when wrath happens. If God is jealous for me, then it's bad for my children, based on Scripture. I don't read it as a part of a poem apart from Scripture. I look for doctrine in songs.

 

[John Robie]

Run these through the cruncher. [emoji1]

 

[mikedsjr]

I'm going to take the extreme for a moment.

If a praise song has only 3 word chorus like "how he loves", you don't care if the rest of the song is filler of meaningless words, because the meaningless filler words don't promote lies or truth?

Another show I listen to on occasions is a Lutheran podcast. They played a song from a church singing what they called the Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey. All they did was sing the Hokey Pokey Song. People came forward claiming healings. So if a baptist church sings the Hokey Pokey song in church to praise music and it moves people, you are asking me not to judge?

 

[John Robie]

I'm going to take the extreme for a moment.

If a praise song has only 3 word chorus like "how he loves", you don't care if the rest of the song is filler of meaningless words, because the meaningless filler words don't promote lies or truth?

Another show I listen to on occasions is a Lutheran podcast. They played a song from a church singing what they called the Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey. All they did was sing the Hokey Pokey Song. People came forward claiming healings. So if a baptist church sings the Hokey Pokey song in church to praise music and it moves people, you are asking me not to judge?

I once heard a "Christian" singer record the song "True" by Spandeau Ballet. Didn't change the words or anything. Made my head hurt.

 

[twin1954]

I once heard a "Christian" singer record the song "True" by Spandeau Ballet. Didn't change the words or anything. Made my head hurt.

Were they trying to crossover into the mainstream? If so I would have no problem with it as long as they didn't advertise it as a "Christian" song.
When I want to listen to choruses I do and greatly enjoy them. I usually skip the bad ones though. I enjoy all kinds of music I just don't try to pretend that I am worshipping God in some of it. Music does set a mood in your heart and the words are extremely important, especially when connected to the music.

 

[John Robie]

Were they trying to crossover into the mainstream? If so I would have no problem with it as long as they didn't advertise it as a "Christian" song.
When I want to listen to choruses I do and greatly enjoy them. I usually skip the bad ones though. I enjoy all kinds of music I just don't try to pretend that I am worshipping God in some of it. Music does set a mood in your heart and the words are extremely important, especially when connected to the music.

It was played on a Christian Radio station. So I assumed they wanted us to interpret it as a Christian song.

 

[twin1954]

It was played on a Christian Radio station. So I assumed they wanted us to interpret it as a Christian song.

I would have assumed the same thing. Sad.

 

[mikedsjr]

For full disclosure, I do own "how he loves" and it's on my phone. Listening to it now. It's nothing more than a clean love ballad that can move me to drive 100 mph on an open road. It's a moving song. But it's as moving to me as Coldplay. Absolute no difference. None.

 

[miamited]

Hi blue,

Have you ever heard the testimony of 'Blue'? Your's is certainly a torturous one and I've certainly been through trials with my wife's sons. They didn't turn out anything like our last son, but neither did they have the blessing of born again parents. I wasn't born again until I was in my early 40's. One's whole worldview changes when that happens. Part of the reason I began searching for the knowledge of God at that time was that I didn't want him to turn out as they had. Children can certainly be a great blessing. Be prepared to have the Holy Spirit just pour tears out of your eyes.


http://sermondrop.com/sermons/10491

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Hammster]

I've been meaning to make this a topic for awhile, so here is the checklist they put together. They are a Lutheran podcast, so #4 on the list could be controversial to an extent. There are several worship songs my church sings that don't pass this test. Interesting enough there are Hymns that don't pass this either. This doesn't surprise me because of Weslyan theology. This is one of the first versions of this Cruncher. It's been tweaked several iterations since. Everything from below this line is from Bryan Wolfmueller's site:
https://wolfmueller.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/the-praise-song-cruncher/

1. Jesus

“Is Jesus mentioned?”

Yes | No If yes, is it in name or concept?

2. Clarity

Is the song clear? Does it use sentences (with subject, verb, object) or sentence fragments?

Very clear 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 Obscure

3. Mysticism (Subjectivity vs Objectivity)

Is the song about the things that God has done (objective), or about my own emotions and experiences (subjective)? Does the song repeat the same phrases over and over in an hypnotic mantra?

Objective 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 Subjective

4. Law and Gospel

Does the song proclaim the law in its sternness and the Gospel in its sweetness? (The Gospel is the promise of the forgiveness of all sins won for us through Jesus’ death on the cross.) Are law and Gospel rightly divided (and not mixed up)? Is the law presented as something that we can do, or does it show us our sins? Is the Gospel conditional (based on my actions, decisions, acceptance)?

Yes No I can’t tell

5. Is there any explicit false teaching?

These five questions, and especially questions two and three help dig up the bones of mysticism.

I think that's a good frame of reference for songs to sing at church. For casual listening, I might not be as strict. But I would lean that way.

 

[Hammster]

Run these through the cruncher. [emoji1]

Good stuff. I like Matt.

 

[mikedsjr]

Here is another song. I want to see if anyone might know the issue I would have here. Some more reformed may figure it out before the Arminians types, only because it's been discussed on the Dividing Line before.

To answer the issue. #5

However, the twist is its not the song. It's the group. Philips CrIg and Dean are Modalists.

 

[Hammster]

To answer the issue. #5

However, the twist is its not the song. It's the group. Philips CrIg and Dean are Modalists.

I've gone back and forth on this issue. I think I even started a thread on whether it was okay to sing a song written by someone who wasn't a believer, even if it was theologically correct. I'm back in the camp that says it's okay.

 

[mikedsjr]

I've gone back and forth on this issue. I think I even started a thread on whether it was okay to sing a song written by someone who wasn't a believer, even if it was theologically correct. I'm back in the camp that says it's okay.

That's a good question. I think I'm in the same viewpoint. There isn't a issue with singing the song in church unless it causes a concern of accepting modalist beliefs by some of the weak brethren, which I doubt would happen, but it must be considered.

 

[miamited]

canceled

 

[Bluelion]

Blue, so it is about the beat and not the words. That's the issue I liked the cruncher. It removes the music. It's about the words. It has nothing to do with music. I don't care how much the music moves me, I read the words. I want to believe the message. You might as well be playing Coldplay, at least for me, if it's about the moving part. I could turn raise my hands like I'm worshipping God during those songs. I've caught myself in the car doing that and thought, "that's all worship music is today". Just put the word God and love in the song together and people will claim its worship so long the music is a good band that can seduce emotions.

When I read How He loves, it makes no sense. It takes a bit of work to figure it out, if any of the meanings here are correct. But what you get in Church is this

He is Jealous for me
Loves like a hurricane
I am a tree.


Next slide

I can't see anything there for me to doctrinally say "yes, I agree. I'm a tree". Scripture doesn't say I'm a tree or Gods like a hurricane. So I have issue taking this in. I'm looking for sound doctrine. The only time I read in Scripture that God is a jealous God is when wrath happens. If God is jealous for me, then it's bad for my children, based on Scripture. I don't read it as a part of a poem apart from Scripture. I look for doctrine in songs.

I never said it was about the beat I could get that from ac/dc but I don't care for them any more. I want the whole cake words beat. I want to hear God speak to me and he does in this music. The way God speaks to me may be different than how He speaks to you but that does not make it wrong.

since you asked the part God is a hurricane i am tree, he is humbling his self before God. Now that is in the Bible.

 

[Bluelion]

Hi blue,

Have you ever heard the testimony of 'Blue'? Your's is certainly a torturous one and I've certainly been through trials with my wife's sons. They didn't turn out anything like our last son, but neither did they have the blessing of born again parents. I wasn't born again until I was in my early 40's. One's whole worldview changes when that happens. Part of the reason I began searching for the knowledge of God at that time was that I didn't want him to turn out as they had. Children can certainly be a great blessing. Be prepared to have the Holy Spirit just pour tears out of your eyes.


http://sermondrop.com/sermons/10491

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Wow those are my kind of people. K i lost it a few times. Thank you for that, i forgot why i do what i do, why I study so hard. Why instead of securing my future I am giving what i don't have to follow God, and trusting God.

I can go to any part of my life and I have a testimony. It has been a very very hard life.

 

[mikedsjr]

since you asked the part God is a hurricane i am tree, he is humbling his self before God. Now that is in the Bible.

That is not possible. The tree doesn't humbly bow in hurricane force winds. The tree is resisting and forced to bend. The tree will stand right back up after the hurricane force winds leave, unless the hurricane kills it.