POWER OF OUR TONGUE!!

[LilAngelHeart]

QUOTE=Old_100th--You've made the mistake of assuming that agreeing with someone in prayer and invoking God is the same thing as using or faith to make things happen.

Hmmm....well what other way is there to pray except through faith??! LOL! Who would pray for something they don't want and are not believing God for through faith? Why would I pray for a mchine gun when I don't want one? LOL!





I don't care if psychologists agree with WOF teaching. We're not talking about something you'd see on Dr. Phil, we're talking about theology.


Okay fine, we'll forget what psychlogists say then. No prob. I only threw that in because you said that the power of words was divinition and sooth saying. LOL! It's not witchcraft, it's practical and logical as well. One doesn't have to believe in God for their words to have affects.

 

[Lottedah]

What denomination are you? Im just curious because us charismatics tend to see what we pray for come forth and thats not witchcraft or making god a sugar daddy.. its a blessing and receiving the desires of our hearts

 

[Old_100th]

[
Hmmm....well what other way is there to pray except through faith??! LOL! Who would pray for something they don't want and are not believing God for through faith? Why would I pray for a mchine gun when I don't want one? LOL!



God makes things happen, not how much we believe.



Okay fine, we'll forget what psychlogists say then. No prob. I only threw that in because you said that the power of words was divinition and sooth saying. LOL! It's not witchcraft, it's practical and logical as well. One doesn't have to believe in God for their words to have affects.
[/QUOTE]

Divination, psychology, whatever.

What's logical about what you're saying. Believing doesn't change anything. Does the Buddhist change anything external merely by believing? No. Christians believe in a God who is actually there. He changes things.

 

[Lottedah]

ahh okay clears it up for me.
A reformed with charismatic tendencies? whats your charismatic tendency? I have never met a reformed who wanted to associate himself with the word charismatic im intrigued.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

QUOTE=Old_100th--What does any of this great chapter of scripture have to do with controlling God by faith? I don't see how this chapter advocates the view that God can be thwarted (yes, I know you called it "moved") by faith. Is it possible that since faith is a goft of God along with grace that faith co-responds with God's will? Hmmmm...a worthy consideration.

No one said anything about controlling God. First of all, it's our faith that moves God when we speak, not in a forced way, God would never give us anything that it wasn't His will to give us. Faith can and does co-respond with God's will, but we have our own will too, and some people may have faith for something that isn't God's will, in those instances, God's will will be done.



I get it, God is forced to obey us because we have faith and we have knowledge of His word as revealed in scripture. God is firmly under our control. He works things out according to His own will after we give Him permission.

No no, God will never give us something that isn't His will, we don't control God, we move God, but we don't control Him. Our prayer and faith touches God and He moves on our behalf.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

QUOTE=Old_100th


God makes things happen, not how much we believe.

Our faith determines how much God will make happen.Without faith it is impossible to please Him. God does not move if we don't have faith.




What's logical about what you're saying. Believing doesn't change anything. Does the Buddhist change anything external merely by believing? No. Christians believe in a God who is actually there. He changes things.

When I say faith and believing, I'm talking about faith in God. God is the source. Of course having faith in some other god will not yeild results! LOL! We are talking about faith and believing in God, the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Just believing in and of itself doesn't garuntee anything. We are talking about believing and having faith in God. I thought that was understood, that's a given.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Life and death are in the power of the tongue. It's pretty clear. The book of James talks alot about the tongue too. Of how it's little but can cause great damage. Of how if we just learn to "control" our tongue then we would be able to control our whole body.

It's not a bad thing to learn to speak over ourselves and others what the Word says. To speak the opposite, would mean it's contrary to the Word and therefore being contrary to the Word makes it against God. If we tell others "you are blessed', which the Bible says, over "you are stuped", which it does not say then we are speaking life.

Live sprang forth from the mouth of God and we being conformed into His image are able to immitate Him. There is "death and life" in our tongue. Please don't take my words out of context. I'm not saying we can create as God created, however, we can kill others and ourselves with words or we can bring life. "I hate you" brings death. "I love you" brings life. How hard is that.

When trying to change the garbage that proceeds out of the mouth of many of us it becomes very difficult. You'd be amazed how many curses against yourself your speaking when you ask the Holy Spirit to bring it to your attention. I did that a few years ago and was appalled at the things I heard myself saying. I have seen a big difference since I started speaking in agreement with what God says.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

When trying to change the garbage that proceeds out of the mouth of many of us it becomes very difficult. You'd be amazed how many curses against yourself your speaking when you ask the Holy Spirit to bring it to your attention. I did that a few years ago and was appalled at the things I heard myself saying. I have seen a big difference since I started speaking in agreement with what God says.

Yes exactly!!!!

 

[LilAngelHeart]

QUOTE=Old_100th--Yes, I do believe that there is much power in the tongue, the Bible says so. However if one tries to find anything in the Scriptures about us releasing spiritual power by saying something he/she will be doing so in vain. The Bible says nothing about this. I defy anyone to do so.


Okay, if you do believe there is power in the tongue, then what happens to that power or what does that power do or how does that power react when someone talks? If there's power in the tongue, then where does that power go when we speak? How could you believe that there's power in the tongue but not believe the power is released in our words? I mean that's what power in the tongue means.




Moreover if one actually believes that God is constrained by our faith, or lack thereof, if he/she is to be CONSISTANT they must say that God is firmly under our control. God doesn't need us to believe in Him. He is in no way dependant upon mere humans.

You are misunderstanding what I am saying. I'm saying that when a person goes to God in prayer or confession, he must have faith that God will do as he asked. Without faith it is impossible to please God. God is not under our control. Example, in the Garden, God told Adam not to eat the fruit, Adam disobeyed and ate the fruit, now this whole planet is messed up as a result.Adam put more faith in what the snake was saying than what God said. Adam's lack of faith and lack of trust in God caused the fall of mankind. You don't consider that as hindering what God had originally intended for mankind?? Adam hindered what God originally wanted for mankind, that doesn't make God under our control. The fact that we can hinder God's original plans for us doesn't mean we control him. If someone tries to give you money and you refuse to take it, you hinder them from helping you, that doesn't mean you control them. It just means that you hindered them from helping.

 

[Old_100th]

Here's what you said:

Our faith determines how much God will make happen... God does not move if we don't have faith.


You admit it. Our faith controls God. The only solution is if God is in control of our faith, or lack thereof.

For Christ's Crown & Covenant,

Old 100th

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

You have a misunderstanding of the power of the tongue. You're arguing that the tongue releases some sort of spiritual power. I'm advocating that the tongue's power is temporal. Meaning that with it I can tell someone to do something, insult or compliment. Again I defy you to show where the Bible supports your view.

By changing terminology and shifting the arguement you will not manage to get me to conceed to your view or change my line of argumentation. I will AGAIN bring you to the same place. Our faith, or lack there of, restricts God if consistantly applied in view of your theology. I'll use your example: Adam's lack of faith thwarted God's plan. Therefore God must have bent his proverbial knee to Adam. There is no other logical conclusion. All you've managed to do is say "That's not what I said" and then go on to say exactly what I said you had said but guised in Arminian/Charismatic lingo.

Question: Is God in control of our faith?

I say that because God is in control of our faith, he has no need for it to do what he wants. Faith is God's gift to is, not our gift to him.

You have a misunderstanding of the power of the tongue. You're arguing that the tongue releases some sort of spiritual power. I'm advocating that the tongue's power is temporal. Meaning that with it I can tell someone to do something, insult or compliment. Again I defy you to show where the Bible supports your view.

Proverbs 18:21 ~ Death and life are in the power of the TONGUE: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. In other words, if you speak death over yourself, you will get it. If you speak the words of Life, Gods Words over yourself, you shall have it.
James 3:6 ~ And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

 

[cyberwing]

Life and death are in the power of the tongue. It's pretty clear. The book of James talks alot about the tongue too. Of how it's little but can cause great damage. Of how if we just learn to "control" our tongue then we would be able to control our whole body.

It's not a bad thing to learn to speak over ourselves and others what the Word says. To speak the opposite, would mean it's contrary to the Word and therefore being contrary to the Word makes it against God. If we tell others "you are blessed', which the Bible says, over "you are stuped", which it does not say then we are speaking life.

Live sprang forth from the mouth of God and we being conformed into His image are able to immitate Him. There is "death and life" in our tongue. Please don't take my words out of context. I'm not saying we can create as God created, however, we can kill others and ourselves with words or we can bring life. "I hate you" brings death. "I love you" brings life. How hard is that.

When trying to change the garbage that proceeds out of the mouth of many of us it becomes very difficult. You'd be amazed how many curses against yourself your speaking when you ask the Holy Spirit to bring it to your attention. I did that a few years ago and was appalled at the things I heard myself saying. I have seen a big difference since I started speaking in agreement with what God says.

Quaffer, very well said indeed.
~Cyberwing

 

[cyberwing]

Here's what you said:

Our faith determines how much God will make happen... God does not move if we don't have faith.


You admit it. Our faith controls God. The only solution is if God is in control of our faith, or lack thereof.

For Christ's Crown & Covenant,

Old 100th

I must respectfully disagree with you here Old 100th. 'Our faith' does not 'control' God. HE is the Creator, we the creation. Father God waits to see what we will do with His gift of faith. {Some choose to throw away the gift, some choose to belittle the gift, some choose to ignore the gift, some choose to open His gift and discover more about it!} Lack of faith is a choice we make, we have a measure of faith or we would not even exist. We cannot see air or gravity but we know it is there...do you eat food today? {THAT takes a great deal of faith with all the contamination in the food supplies!!!}
We are told in His Word that our faith pleases Him. It is stated in The Word, HE has given us a 'measure' of faith. Building and USING our faith is up to us. Our Lord is a gentleman and will not force His Will on anyone. I personally believe Our Father watches to see what we will do with the gifts He has given us, ALL of them!!! His Word is TRUTH and therefore I can stand on the promises given in His Word. This exercise of our faith in Him, pleases Him and He will move on our behalf it is not 'controlling' Him.

We were ALL given 'freedom of choice'. Anyone can be given a gift but it is up to us to OPEN the gift and USE it. Far too many of us set the gift aside and never bother to open the gifts HE has given to us, let alone USE them!

One of those primary gifts is faith. Speaking positive things over my life are gifts I can have IF I read The Word and confess them in accordance with His Will which is plainly laid out in His Holy Word. It is His good pleasure to bless His children.

 

[altya]

God created the world and us with the spoken word.

 

[altya]

There is awesome power in the tong. God created heavens and earth by the spoken word!

 

[altya]

There is power in our words. God created heaven and earth with the spoken word!

 

[LilAngelHeart]

Here's what you said:

Our faith determines how much God will make happen... God does not move if we don't have faith.


You admit it. Our faith controls God. The only solution is if God is in control of our faith, or lack thereof.

For Christ's Crown & Covenant,

Old 100th

Determines is the word I would use, not control. Determines does not = control.

 

[LilAngelHeart]

I must respectfully disagree with you here Old 100th. 'Our faith' does not 'control' God. HE is the Creator, we the creation. Father God waits to see what we will do with His gift of faith. {Some choose to throw away the gift, some choose to belittle the gift, some choose to ignore the gift, some choose to open His gift and discover more about it!} Lack of faith is a choice we make, we have a measure of faith or we would not even exist. We cannot see air or gravity but we know it is there...do you eat food today? {THAT takes a great deal of faith with all the contamination in the food supplies!!!}
We are told in His Word that our faith pleases Him. It is stated in The Word, HE has given us a 'measure' of faith. Building and USING our faith is up to us. Our Lord is a gentleman and will not force His Will on anyone. I personally believe Our Father watches to see what we will do with the gifts He has given us, ALL of them!!! His Word is TRUTH and therefore I can stand on the promises given in His Word. This exercise of our faith in Him, pleases Him and He will move on our behalf it is not 'controlling' Him.

We were ALL given 'freedom of choice'. Anyone can be given a gift but it is up to us to OPEN the gift and USE it. Far too many of us set the gift aside and never bother to open the gifts HE has given to us, let alone USE them!

One of those primary gifts is faith. Speaking positive things over my life are gifts I can have IF I read The Word and confess them in accordance with His Will which is plainly laid out in His Holy Word. It is His good pleasure to bless His children.

Good post!!

 

[LilAngelHeart]

God created the world and us with the spoken word.

Exactly!

 

[Old_100th]

Yes, God did create the world by spoken word. But we're not God. I don't recall Christians being given a spiritual gift that allows them to create something out of nothing, ex nihilo. To assume that we have this ability is fallacious and ilfounded. Dare I say that this teaching is very dangerous.

All that has been done here is to shift terminology. Let me do some logic for you"

1) God responds to our faith.
2) Sue prays for "financial freedom" using her measure of faith.
3) God grants her request, based upon her faith.
4) Therefore, Sue, by way of her faith, has deterministically caused God's action.

Using this model, I have proven that through faith, God's actions are deterministically (and yes, that is a word) caused by our faith. Cause, influnce, determine, control, it's all semantics. We determine the outcome, not God. This model is flawed in many ways that I won't get into.

However, let me show you the Skerrittian/Edwardsian model. I think it solves the problem.

1) God gives Sue faith. He is in full control of our faith, it's measure, what we have faith in, and what Sue's faith is effectual for.
2) Sue, asks God to give her wisdom to choose what Church she should attend, using the faith that God has already given her, and already decreed shall be effectual unto the end that she shall attend Grace Orthodox Presbyterian Church.
3) Sue sees the wisdom of attending Grace OPC, she goes there and is blessed for having done so.
4) God is glorified in Sue's utter dependance upon Him.

In this model God is in control. He determined the outcome before it happened. He got what he wanted, Sue went to the church he wanted her to go to. Sue choose freely to go. God is in control.