potter fever?

[jingwei]

To the contrary several reports of cannibalism around teh world based on wiccan do happen. A few months ago I saw on discovery channel, this guy killed a girl's parents with a metal bar because they were going to run away practicing vampirism, a form of wiccan. And a guy practicing wiccan in Germany killed somebody and ate his penis, though the victim was willing.

 

[Lifesaver]

Yes, and our religion is growing at a phenominal rate, while yours is in decline. Maybe we have the better message?

Control your pride, Havoc. Let's wait and see the state of affairs in a few decades and then make an informed judgement on which religions have a lasting message.

 

[Lifesaver]

And just how... exactly... do Wiccans preach evil. Don't bother with the "wrong religion" fallacy either, what actual, substantive evil do we preach?

First: they preach that people can control a form of metaphysical energy to mold reality according to their will. The doctrine of magick is essential to Wicca, and since it is a false one, it is evil to teach it.

Second: they try to pass a shallow "as long as it harms no-one, do as you will" rule which allows for a whole lot of unethical behaviours (as long as they don't harm someone).

I ask all Wiccan members to tell us all one spell of them which did work, or the spell of anyone they know or heard of which worked. And when magic spells don't work, why is that?

 

[tulc]

To the contrary several reports of cannibalism around teh world based on wiccan do happen. A few months ago I saw on discovery channel, this guy killed a girl's parents with a metal bar because they were going to run away practicing vampirism, a form of wiccan. And a guy practicing wiccan in Germany killed somebody and ate his penis, though the victim was willing.

So you do believe all Wiccas (is that how you say the plural of wicca?) are cannibals? I wonder how many Wicca have you met? How many have spent any time with? If someone said "All Christians are a danger to their children because a couple of mothers killed their kids because God told them too." Would you say "Oh yeah that makes sense!" Or would you say "Hey just because some people do something stupid not all Christians are like that!" You might want to start talking to real people who have real beliefs not the cardbord cutout some people put up as what Wicca believe. Just a thought.
tulc

 

[Archivist]

Of course from the view of a non Christian/Hebrew/Muslim etc. Wiccan is perfectly normal. The bible commands us not to practice Satanism.

First, I would note that Wicca is not Satanism. Whether you agree with the practice of Wicca or not, you can in no way equate it with Satanism and I have never seen any reports tying Wicca with canibalism. Would you have any facts to back up your charge?

Second, this discussion is getting very far off topic. The topic here is harry Potter. There is another active thread discussing Wicca--if you want to discuss the Wiccan faith it seems to me that you should do so there unless what you are saying can be directly tied to the Harry Potter books and you can back it with some sort of evidence.

 

[Arikay]

I think Harry Potter is evil because it turns people away from christianity.
I don't mean by promoting witchcraft or satanism or comercialism, but by bringing out the worst in some christians who don't realize they are doing their religion a diservice by promoting false information, stereotypes and extremist attitudes.

If Harry Potter has turned anyone away from christianity it is because of the actions of christians and not the book itself.

(on a side note, I dont think Harry Potter is evil )

 

[Havoc]

Wicca utilizes the traditional spell casting of European witches practicing Satanism and cannibalism.

Traditional European witches neither believed in Satan not practised cannibalism.

It also utilizes the symbols for evil and Ha-Satan.

WE don't belive in evil or Satan, how would we use symbols for them?

It is a mere toned down version often mixed with new age spiritism and naturalism.

A more toned down version of what?

It offers personal control of "natural" forces.

And this is "evil" how? Other than contrary to the Bible I mean. How is it objectively "evil"

It pays tribute to multiple false gods.

Please prove, using objective evidence, that my Gods are false. Please prove that yours are true.

 

[Havoc]

To the contrary several reports of cannibalism around teh world based on wiccan do happen.

There are several reports of Elvis working at a 7-eleven. How reliable are those reports? The propaganda of Christians regarding other religions doesn't have a very good track record. There is no such thing as cannibalism based on Wicca.

A few months ago I saw on discovery channel, this guy killed a girl's parents with a metal bar because they were going to run away practicing vampirism, a form of wiccan.

Vampirism is not a form of Wicca, and I highly doubt the discovery channel would say so, considering the couple of very good documentaries they've done on the subject. Did you simply make the link, or was it simply someone's uninformed opinion?

And a guy practicing wiccan in Germany killed somebody and ate his penis, though the victim was willing.

Kassel never claimed to be Wiccan. Even if he did this would be contrary to our most sacred tenet, which is to harm none. There is no practice in Wicca which would permit this or provide a corrollary to this. Interestingly enough the only instance of ritualised cannibalism in modern religion, symbolic or otherwise, is in Christianity.

I've been practising Wicca for 16 years, how many times do you thinkl I've feasted on human flesh jingwei? Not including biting my nails of course.

Perhaps you should avoid commenting on Wicca until you actually know something about it, jingwei. Another piece of advice, don't use Chick tracts or World Net Daily as factual sources of info on other religions. False witness is your responsibility even if you're just passing on what you've heard.

 

[Havoc]

First: they preach that people can control a form of metaphysical energy to mold reality according to their will. The doctrine of magick is essential to Wicca, and since it is a false one, it is evil to teach it.

So it is evil because it's a false doctrine? That's pretty weak. Even so, please prove, using objective evidence, that it is a false one.

Second: they try to pass a shallow "as long as it harms no-one, do as you will" rule which allows for a whole lot of unethical behaviours (as long as they don't harm someone).

You may think it's shallow but that is nothing more than your highly biased opinion. How, exactly, can a behaviour which harms no one, including yourself, be unethical.

I ask all Wiccan members to tell us all one spell of them which did work, or the spell of anyone they know or heard of which worked.

I cast healing spells and people get better.

And when magic spells don't work, why is that?

When prayer doesn't work, why is that?

 

[Havoc]

Christians are much more effective at turning people away from Christianity than Witches are, especailly when they lie about other religions.

 

[Mr. Fields]

Christians are much more effective at turning people away from Christianity than Witches are...

Understatement of the year...

 

[katherinethegreat]

Wicca utilizes the traditional spell casting of European witches practicing Satanism and cannibalism. It also utilizes the symbols for evil and Ha-Satan. It is a mere toned down version often mixed with new age spiritism and naturalism. It offers personal control of "natural" forces. It pays tribute to multiple false gods.

the first christians in and effort to get everyone to believe in christianity, turned pagan symbols..like the wise crone's hat into a witch's hat. the first pagans were loving, and believed in the worship of nature...and are you aware that there weren't all that many witches in midevil europe..it was jksut a bunch of old women who weren't looked on well by the community...and the cannabliam was false too, hey read some history before you spout things you know nothing of

 

[Lifesaver]

So it is evil because it's a false doctrine? That's pretty weak. Even so, please prove, using objective evidence, that it is a false one.

Until someone brings some evidence that magic exists, it is safe to assume it doesn't.
Keep in mind that, being an energy which can be manipulated, it should work, when practiced by skilled wizards, with observable frequency, and should, all things constant, reach like results all times.

You may think it's shallow but that is nothing more than your highly biased opinion. How, exactly, can a behaviour which harms no one, including yourself, be unethical.

A man is unhapily married and cheats on his wife. She never knows about it and both he and his mistress felt quite good and have absolutely no regrets about it, though they decided not to do it again. No-one was harmed.

I cast healing spells and people get better.

Really? And here was me wasting my time with expensive doctors and medicines...

When prayer doesn't work, why is that?

The prayer is not really faithful, or he doesn't really want it or God has judged it better that he does not get it then.

 

[Lifesaver]

the first pagans were loving, and believed in the worship of nature...

There have been (and are) many loving Pagans. However, that was not a generalized trait among ancient European barbarian tribal groups.

 

[Arikay]

"Until someone brings some evidence that magic exists, it is safe to assume it doesn't."

Carefull there, as that seems like it could be double edged. Just replace magic with god, prayer, miracles, etc. Not to mention the logical fallacy of claiming that if there is no evidence for something its probably false.

Until someone brings some evidence that magic exists, it is safe to assume it doesn't.
Keep in mind that, being an energy which can be manipulated, it should work, when practiced by skilled wizards, with observable frequency, and should, all things constant, reach like results all times.


A man is unhapily married and cheats on his wife. She never knows about it and both he and his mistress felt quite good and have absolutely no regrets about it, though they decided not to do it again. No-one was harmed.


Really? And here was me wasting my time with expensive doctors and medicines...


The prayer is not really faithful, or he doesn't really want it or God has judged it better that he does not get it then.

 

[tulc]

Christians are much more effective at turning people away from Christianity than Witches are, especailly when they lie about other religions.

I am reminded of a quote (almost everything does come to think of it)

"The Jews are a nervous people. 19 Centuries of Christian love has taken a toll."
-Benjamin Disraeli

tulc(who doesn't care for Potter, but sees no evil in the books or movies)

 

[Havoc]

Until someone brings some evidence that magic exists, it is safe to assume it doesn't.

Mind if we apply that same standard to your claims of Christianity? Seems only fair.

Keep in mind that, being an energy which can be manipulated, it should work, when practiced by skilled wizards, with observable frequency, and should, all things constant, reach like results all times.

Mind if we apply that same standard to your claims of prayer? Seems only fair.

A man is unhapily married and cheats on his wife. She never knows about it and both he and his mistress felt quite good and have absolutely no regrets about it, though they decided not to do it again. No-one was harmed.

I don't know about your religion, but in my religion dishonesty and infidelity are considered harmful.

Really? And here was me wasting my time with expensive doctors and medicines...

Well better than wasting your time in prayer

The prayer is not really faithful, or he doesn't really want it or God has judged it better that he does not get it then.

So, if the prayer happens to "work" (or the thing happened anyways) it's God's will. If it doesn't work it's the persons fault...

Mind if we apply that same standard to spells? Seems only fair.

 

[PaladinValer]

How the heck did a simple thread about Harry Potter turn into a pro/con Wicca bashing contest?!

**Throws both sides into the Artic Ocean to cool off before an admin. or mod. comes in**

 

[Lifesaver]

Mind if we apply that same standard to your claims of Christianity? Seems only fair.

Not at all.

Mind if we apply that same standard to your claims of prayer? Seems only fair.

I do mind, since they are completely different. Prayer is not some energy that we manipulate, and it doesn't take skill or experience, nor do we "cast" them. A prayer is up to God and He alone to answer or not.

I don't know about your religion, but in my religion dishonesty and infidelity are considered harmful.

So, you do agree that actions which don't directly harm anyone are harmful to the individual's soul? Afterall, the man in question felt no regrets and had no ill effects from his secret adultery. All that's left to be harmed is his soul, right?

So, if the prayer happens to "work" (or the thing happened anyways) it's God's will. If it doesn't work it's the persons fault...

Only God grants or not what is asked for in prayer. Will He want to grant it for someone who doesn't really have faith and who doesn't want the thing that much anyway? Probably not.

Mind if we apply that same standard to spells? Seems only fair.

Are you telling me that magic spells are a way of asking the gods to grant us something, and not an energy which humans have power over?

 

[chalice_thunder]

The themes presented in Harry Potter books and movies are totally in line with Christian thought and teaching - plenty of death/resurrection images; good vs.evil; the need to go through a journey; etc.

It's well written, interesting, adventurous, and has the potential to be deeply spiritual literature.