Posting in fellowship

[EastCoastRemnant]

The KJV was the only source for the doctrines of our ansestors.
Scan this whole chapter from the NIV and notice that the law in question is not exclusively the ten commandment.

Sorry brother but I, personally, do not put any faith in the NIV. God has preserved the KJV for 400 years and that is a good enough sign to me that it contains what God would have us to know and understand.

 

[k4c]

Yes, I am aware of dual prophecies in the bible.
Yet still, the scriptures you posted from Eze36 appears to be in part and only selected to support your commentary.

Notice, my attention to your questions.

To my understanding Isa 42:20 and 21 is not a dual prophesy, so I'm guessing that you only want me to consider this text as saying;

When Jesus come He will magnify the law and make it honorable.

We see this prophesy fulfilled at the sermon on the mount.

There is much more to apply to understanding from these text than the law as being exclussively the ten commandments.


respectfully
CRIB

Jesus spoke and did the will of the Father.

John 3:34 God sent Jesus. Jesus speaks the words of God, because God gave him the Spirit without limit.

Jesus' words and life was a manifestation of God's Law.

The Law will be written on the heart in the new covenant. Which Law is God referring to? Well if you read the New Testament you will find referrence to the Ten Commadments all throughout the NT.

Matthew 19:17-19 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'' He said to Him, "Which ones?'' Jesus said, " `You shall not murder,' `You shall not commit adultery,' `You shall not steal,' `You shall not bear false witness,' `Honor your father and your mother,' and, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' ''

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Which Sabbath do you think is being referred to in all these verses?

Matthew 12:11-12 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''

Matthew 12:8 "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.''

Matthew 24:20 "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Did Jesus or His disciples do away with the Sabbath or change the Sabbath?

The defination of godly love is spelled out in the Ten Commandments.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

If we express godly love it will manifest as not worshiping other gods, not using the Lord's name in vain, remembering to keep the Sabbath holy, not stealing, not lying and so on.

Remember, love can manifest in many different ways such as seen in adultery and homosexuality. Love can even manifest itself as stealing and murder if you have a love of money.

Can one love without having the Law? Yes they can, God will hold them accountable to what they understand outside of having the Law. But when a person is born again and starts seeking God through His word God will begin to define godly love. Godly love involves not only loving other, but also, loving God. This is something a lost person does not have knowledge of.

Since the life and words of Jesus are the standard and He never broke God's Law than we have to include God's Law as part of the New Covenant otherwise all the verses that refer to God's Law have no value or meaning..

 

[Stryder06]

Some questions are designed to isolate discussion to keywords like; "law" and "commandments" to create a logical conclussion to keep the ten commandments. Let's not ignor the whole truth.

Indeed.

What did Jesus came to preach, the kingdom of God or the law?

You speak as if the two are mutually exclusive. The Kingdom of God is built upon the law of God.

All we have to do is read all that Jesus commanded to His followers and claimed was His commandments to realize that the ten commandment are not exclussive, but rather some moral imperatives that are incorporated into all His commandments.

I'd never claim that the ten commandments were the only commandments we'd have to keep. They are however the only ones that come up in conversation simply because of that pesky 4th one.

All churches believe that God is Holy and we should strive to be Holy too. Having to defend people saying to me; "if you're not under the law, you can steal, kill and live lawless lives is commentary I often call "a scam" to steal member from other churches.

It's not a scam, at least I wouldn't say so, rather it is pointing out the obvious truth. The logic follows that if there is no law, then nothing is wrong. If there is no law that says 45mph, I can't get a ticket for going 60.

Some people would indignantly claim; He wrote it in stone with His finger!!!!" My response is "He came in the flesh and died to fulfill it."

The fact that He came and died all the more attests to it's importance.

Some people's faith is based solely on the idea that the bible is only about the law of God rather than faith in Jesus Christ and all the He is to us.

I don't know any such individuals, but we're in agreeance that faith should be in Christ alone.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
(sorry for the long posts)

No biggie.

Playing into your hands for a minute Stryder....let's look at a parallel to the given of the ten commandments at Sinai.

It's not like I was asking a trick question. Too often I hear about "The commandments of Jesus" as if His commandments would differ from His Fathers. Add to that the fact that Jesus said He was speaking not His words, but the words of His Father, and you'd have to logically conclude that His commandments are the Father's commandments.

At the sermon on the mount Jesus said.....
Mat 5:17¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

In my opinion some commentary tends to desecrate the wisdom given in these texts by saying more than is being said.
The KJV was the only source for the doctrines of our ansestors.
Scan this whole chapter from the NIV and notice that the law in question is not exclusively the ten commandment.
Next Chapter

Well I'm not exactly sure what the KJV has to do with this, but it's clear, with study, that Christ isn't talking about the 10 commandments here, well not exclusively anyway. He's talking about the sacrifical law to be more specific. He came to fulfill the requirement of the law, which was death. The type of the sanctuary service was about to meet anti-type.

 

[Stryder06]

-snip-
If you look at what Lucifer did to transgress, it was breaking the first, second, fifth, seventh, ninth and tenth Commandments.

Man, I'd throw in 3,4,6,and 8 for good measure

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Man, I'd throw in 3,4,6,and 8 for good measure

One was enough....

 

[Cribstyl]

Sorry brother but I, personally, do not put any faith in the NIV. God has preserved the KJV for 400 years and that is a good enough sign to me that it contains what God would have us to know and understand.

The KJV is the love of my life, but not too long ago the worlds view was that the earth was flat. Technology has caused knowledge to increase, and now we can look trillions of miles away and expand our wisdom about God's word and His vast creation.
As you should know, in just a few mouse clicks you can look at original munuscripts and archives from hundred of years before Jesus walked on earth.

I say all that to say; The KJV in 1611 was transliterated from languages that evolved from that time in history. There are other bibles that we can us together with it to get a better understanding of the original scriptures.

 

[Cribstyl]

Jesus spoke and did the will of the Father.

John 3:34 God sent Jesus. Jesus speaks the words of God, because God gave him the Spirit without limit.

Jesus' words and life was a manifestation of God's Law.

The Law will be written on the heart in the new covenant. Which Law is God referring to? Well if you read the New Testament you will find referrence to the Ten Commadments all throughout the NT.

Matthew 19:17-19 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'' He said to Him, "Which ones?'' Jesus said, " `You shall not murder,' `You shall not commit adultery,' `You shall not steal,' `You shall not bear false witness,' `Honor your father and your mother,' and, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' ''

Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Which Sabbath do you think is being referred to in all these verses?

Matthew 12:11-12 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''

Matthew 12:8 "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.''

Matthew 24:20 "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Did Jesus or His disciples do away with the Sabbath or change the Sabbath?

The defination of godly love is spelled out in the Ten Commandments.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery,'' "You shall not murder,'' "You shall not steal,'' "You shall not bear false witness,'' "You shall not covet,'' and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

If we express godly love it will manifest as not worshiping other gods, not using the Lord's name in vain, remembering to keep the Sabbath holy, not stealing, not lying and so on.

Remember, love can manifest in many different ways such as seen in adultery and homosexuality. Love can even manifest itself as stealing and murder if you have a love of money.

Can one love without having the Law? Yes they can, God will hold them accountable to what they understand outside of having the Law. But when a person is born again and starts seeking God through His word God will begin to define godly love. Godly love involves not only loving other, but also, loving God. This is something a lost person does not have knowledge of.

Since the life and words of Jesus are the standard and He never broke God's Law than we have to include God's Law as part of the New Covenant otherwise all the verses that refer to God's Law have no value or meaning..

With all due respect K4c...... I find that your comments often gets ahead of the scriptures in your posts.
To me the bible is like a songbook and you keep playing soundbites from all over that suits your taste. As usual, I have questions, and I cant get you to reply to my comments of your post.

 

[Stryder06]

One was enough....

You're right about that. The sad part is that as tragic as Lucifer's fall was, you see it being replicated in the christianity today.

 

[Cribstyl]

You're right about that. The sad part is that as tragic as Lucifer's fall was, you see it being replicated in the christianity today.

Since there's so much offscripture talk about Lucifer in this thread .......
What day did Lucifer transgress God's law?

 

[k4c]

With all due respect K4c...... I find that your comments often gets ahead of the scriptures in your posts.
To me the bible is like a songbook and you keep playing soundbites from all over that suits your taste. As usual, I have questions, and I cant get you to reply to my comments of your post.

Okay, ask a simple question.

 

[Cribstyl]

Okay, ask a simple question.

Praises be to God the mercyful.....

Here goes a simple question.........

What must I do to be saved?

 

[Cribstyl]

Man, I'd throw in 3,4,6,and 8 for good measure

... How could there be a Sabbath before God rested???

 

[k4c]

Praises be to God the mercyful.....

Here goes a simple question.........

What must I do to be saved?

Believe in jesus and he will save you.

 

[Cribstyl]

Believe in jesus and he will save you.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

... How could there be a Sabbath before God rested???

That one of the mysteries we will not know in this life.... we do not know if the story of creation was for this world alone or the entire universe and all the worlds.

Because the Bible says there are Sabbaths (rest days) on the new earth, I would say it was refering to the creation of all things.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Since there's so much offscripture talk about Lucifer in this thread .......
What day did Lucifer transgress God's law?

We obviously don't know what day it was but I never said that the transgression of God's Sabbath was one of his original transgressions... however, it is completely logical that where he said he was going to exalt his throne above Gods, that he would try and institute a counterfeit day of worship to deify himself.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

While K4c's comment is correct, and has received your approval Crib, we need to examine whether or not this is enough... after all Lucifer and his demons believe in Christ.

What is the one thing that seperates them from us.... they recognize Michael/Jesus as the Son of God, they believe He died and was resurrected, so why do they not gain salvation. It is becasue they are not obedient to God's requirements and Commandments. That is the only difference between Lucifer and us... think about it.

 

[k4c]

While K4c's comment is correct, and has received your approval Crib, we need to examine whether or not this is enough... after all Lucifer and his demons believe in Christ.

What is the one thing that seperates them from us.... they recognize Michael/Jesus as the Son of God, they believe He died and was resurrected, so why do they not gain salvation. It is becasue they are not obedient to God's requirements and Commandments. That is the only difference between Lucifer and us... think about it.

Believe on Jesus and He will save you is all you need.

Why is this?

Because when Jesus truly saves there is a changed life. All the rest of the stuff comes later through the direction of the holy Spirit. Remember, God will put His Spirit in us first and then He will cause us to walk in His Laws. So we should never say Jesus is not enough but we should say that we have to let Jesus save us.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Believe on Jesus and He will save you is all you need.

Why is this?

Because when Jesus truly saves there is a changed life. All the rest of the stuff comes later through the direction of the holy Spirit. Remember, God will put His Spirit in us first and then He will cause us to walk in His Laws. So we should never say Jesus is not enough but we should say that we have to let Jesus save us.

Imo, justification alone will not sustain the believer... which is what I am understanding from your statement above.

Justification is all God and is free for us to accept and to have change us but going forward we cannot think that it is all God's work that sanctifies us... we are to continually strive for perfection through the conviction, repentance and forgiveness that Grace affords. This is our work in step with the Holy Spirit... as we stray, we are gently made aware of our waywardness but we have to decide to heed the Spirit's calling. If we don't we fall into a state of being lost.

The belief in justification alone is what 'once saved, always saved' people hang onto.

 

[Cribstyl]

That one of the mysteries we will not know in this life.... we do not know if the story of creation was for this world alone or the entire universe and all the worlds.

Gen 1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Why should we believe that heaven preexisted the beginning???

Exd 20:11For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Is'nt it odd that I believe what the forth commandment states?



Psa 33:6By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psa 33:13 The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.
Psa 33:14 From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.

What are you thought on these texts?

Because the Bible says there are Sabbaths (rest days) on the new earth, I would say it was refering to the creation of all things.

If you're implying Isa 66...I have some questions and comments about the context of that chapter that may prove how commentary say more than the word of God.