Posting in fellowship

[Stryder06]

Hebrew history may help some... do some keywords search bro.

Hebrew history for what exactly?

David spoke of his own iniquity while tearfully repenting adultery with Bathsheba and having set up the death of her husband.. Psa 51:5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Concerning intrinsic morality in heathens Paul said Rom 2:14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

The thing is that the bible says that all good things come from above. Intrinsically, we are wicked (Jer 17:9). Thus any good thing that man does is a direct result of God working in their lives. Even if men don't acknowledge God, it doesn't mean He isn't working in some fashion within their lives, trying to reveal Himself to them.

Let's say I agree in part.

Ok. I read what I said and say that I goofed one of those sentences, so I hope I got the idea across. Essentially I know that some laws were specific for the Israelites, but God's moral code goes for everyone.

Believe it or not ...from where I work.
When we leave the earth's orbit the laws of nature changes. We've expirienced and see firsthand that only the earth has 24hr days due to the sun and moon as God established. The heavens beyond the earth is not subjected to 24hrs as the earth is.

I'm no scientist but I know that much, which is why I've been speaking about the Spirit of the law. Of course angels can't technically commit adultery. But they can love their brother. That's why God gave us those two as a summation. Love God. Love thy brother.

What I know about God is He is Spirit.
The fact is, God has spoken what He will do, thus He has obligated Himself by the words He has spoken.

Indeed. But never has God spoken of abolishing His law. Were it that simple, then that's all He would have needed to do. Abolish the law and naturally you abolish the punishment that is tied to the law.

 

[Cribstyl]

Just a brief note on this point if I may Cribstyl.

The word "anthropos" is used here in the same way as in Mark 3:3, 3:5, 5:8, 7:15, etc. where it is rendered "the man".

Thank you for your respectful input.

....( reseaching it, rather than just saying Amen)

Here's what I find;
Each of those text proves to apply to a "singular" man" rather that "mankind" meaning every man. It's unanimous friend.
We can put "that man" or "Joe" in each of those aplications noted by you.
When I try to put "mankind" it does not fit at all.

Mar 3:3And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
Mar 5:8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, [thou] unclean spirit.


If the shoes dont fit.....

The Sabbath was made [in the beginning] for "the man".

J.N. Andrews (one of Adventism's early workers) stated it well I think, when he said:

"the Saviour's language is even yet more emphatic in the original: "The Sabbath was made for THE man, not THE man for the Sabbath." This language fixes the mind on the man Adam, who was made of the dust of the ground just before the Sabbath was made for him, of the seventh day."

Respectfully.....Mar 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Pardon my substitution to make a point.......
My first understanding is that Jesus was saying "The "ORANGE" was made for man to eat, the man was not made to eat the ORANGE."
My first glance is that Jesus is explaining to the Pharisee the order of the man and the Sabbath.
My second glance is that Jesus is explaining that the man is more important than the Sabbath.

help us lord
CRIB

 

[k4c]

Thank you for your respectful input.

....( reseaching it, rather than just saying Amen)

Here's what I find;
Each of those text proves to apply to a "singular" man" rather that "mankind" meaning every man. It's unanimous friend.
We can put "that man" or "Joe" in each of those aplications noted by you.
When I try to put "mankind" it does not fit at all.

Mar 3:3And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.
Mar 5:8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, [thou] unclean spirit.


If the shoes dont fit.....


Respectfully.....Mar 2:27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Pardon my substitution to make a point.......
My first understanding is that Jesus was saying "The "ORANGE" was made for man to eat, the man was not made to eat the ORANGE."
My first glance is that Jesus is explaining to the Pharisee the order of the man and the Sabbath.
My second glance is that Jesus is explaining that the man is more important than the Sabbath.

help us lord
CRIB

WOW! Such a lot of detail and clarification by Jesus about a day that was done away with. Someone had better let Him know that it really doesn't matter.

 

[Cribstyl]

You mean when I say what you want me to say we can agree...

.... Believe whatever you want, as long as we can be cordial we can sit at the same table to break bread. There'll be hope for unity ....you seem to be getting edgy in your current posts.....I'm sorry.

There has to be some voice of understanding implated in the being of man at creation in order to have any inclination of wrong or right. That voice has been spelled out in stone in the old covenant and inspired back in man's heart in the new covenant.

AMEN!, Being created in the "Image of God, in His likeness" means a lot more than some people apply to understanding.

Here was God planning to do it....

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” ​

Here is God doing it........
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. ​

My point is, when God created man, man was not evil or ignorant. He implanted in them wisdom to rule over His creation and to do all these good things He planned for them to do. The fact that His words dont return void, these are still his reasons for creating mankind.

When we fast forward to God's judgment before the flood, we can learn than man was doing His own evil things dispite being in God's image and likeness. If God's purpose for man was to keep certain laws given at the beginning, there would clear scriptures showing God's judgment on Sabbathbreakers to excentuate The Law of God. (rather than commentary)
So let's see what the scriptures say about why God sent the flood.

Gen 5: 1This is the written account of Adam’s line.

When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them “man.a”​

(Sidenote; saying "Created in God's image and likeness" trumps saying "man was born in sin," it remind us of God purpose rather than man inability to follow God will for mankind.)

6 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,
2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend witha man forever, for he is mortalb; his days will be a hundred and twenty years.” ​

Above...It seem clear that since man began to pick and chose to His own creature comforts and community, so God said. "These guy are doing their own thing, so 120yrs is enough to put up with them. true or false?

5 The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
6 The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”​

It's important to understand that man degenerated from being the image and likeness of God to being evil and wicked. God hated it....... No law ever mentioned to this point....that's what Paul acknowleges in Roman chapter 1 through 5

Adam's sin was to disobey God. So sin is to disobey God. But there was no Law to disobey, yet he and all the world die as a result. So what was Adam's desendents held accountable to if there was no Law? Was that inclination we all have within? Is that inclination the spirit of the Law?

Yes Adam's sin was to disobey God... It was not a law but it was a commandment. The purpose of a law is to govern a people within a territory rather to govern just one person. (we should have a thread about some characteristics of "law" in the bible.)
The fact you're evading is..."sin" is broader and not solely define by the ten commandments.

So who's promoting lawlessness? No I!

Dude, Who is accusing who of promoting lawlessness?
If you took the time to understand what I believe you'd know how and why I love God and how and why I love you.

 

[Cribstyl]

Hebrew history for what exactly?

In ref to#73 Well, was Abraham a Hebrew??? How do we trace his lineage? The fact is, Hebrews history does speak of the Noahide laws. It's has certain commandments relating closey to some of the ten. Not hard to find historical laws of ancient civilization from your Android cellphone.

The thing is that the bible says that all good things come from above. Intrinsically, we are wicked (Jer 17:9). Thus any good thing that man does is a direct result of God working in their lives. Even if men don't acknowledge God, it doesn't mean He isn't working in some fashion within their lives, trying to reveal Himself to them.

In Paul letter to the Romans he articulated in details what happened to man from creation to the flood. Man degenerated and lost his way. God gave them over because they were changing and becoming evil............

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. ​

This narrative from creation that Paul writes in Romans is in harmony with Genesis. It's not about God's law but rather, "what happened to the men created in the image of God." OH, Paul will definitely explain in this General Epistle when law comes into play.
These texts are itemizing the counless sins that men do.
Truth is, the 10.com makes some people feel safe and confident because the can hide between the letters of the law.​

In my gospel sin is explained as "all unrighteousness," not exclussively "transgression of the law."
The reason why the definition of "sin" is to miss the mark is to illustrate that man has fallen from the target that God sets for them. That target is His image, Holiness, righteousness, peace, love, and the other fruits of the spirit.....​

 

[Stryder06]

In ref to#73 Well, was Abraham a Hebrew??? How do we trace his lineage? The fact is, Hebrews history does speak of the Noahide laws. It's has certain commandments relating closey to some of the ten. Not hard to find historical laws of ancient civilization from your Android cellphone.

Yeah. Well I still don't get what Abraham's lineage has to do with anything. Sorry I may just be real slow on this on, but I'm not getting where you're going.

In Paul letter to the Romans he articulated in details what happened to man from creation to the flood. Man degenerated and lost his way. God gave them over because they were changing and becoming evil............

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. ​

This narrative from creation that Paul writes in Romans is in harmony with Genesis. It's not about God's law but rather, "what happened to the men created in the image of God." OH, Paul will definitely explain in this General Epistle when law comes into play.
These texts are itemizing the counless sins that men do.
Truth is, the 10.com makes some people feel safe and confident because the can hide between the letters of the law.​

In my gospel sin is explained as "all unrighteousness," not exclussively "transgression of the law."

The reason why the definition of "sin" is to miss the mark is to illustrate that man has fallen from the target that God sets for them. That target is His image, Holiness, righteousness, peace, love, and the other fruits of the spirit.....​

I guess this is where we differ because I believe Pauls's account is about the law. God summed up His law by saying "Love God" and "Love your neighbor". Man became so corrupt that it called for a flood, and then soon after man began down that same path of corruption which will bring about the wrath of good unmingled with mercy. You limit your understanding of what the law is all about because, imo, you're trying to skip around the 4th one. The spirit of the law testifies to the vicious acts done by man. No it may not be spelled out the way some people would prefer, but that doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it isn't being violated. It's a dangerous game one plays when they try to fault the efficency of God's law with their own brand of techicalities.

 

[Stewartnz]

Hello Crib, can we go back half a step to the idea that the Sabbath was made "for man"?

Taking your point that Mark 2:27 is not actually referring to mankind in general, but rather to "the man" (singular), can we agree that the Sabbath was "made" at the end of the creation week, for Adam?

If this is the case, then does it become apparent that the Sabbath was made for a man that was then without sin? And that the Sabbath was not later "added because of transgression"?

_______________________

Isaiah refers to the Sabbath being trodden under foot, and that the Sabbath should have been a source of "delight", and "honorable" (Isa 58:13). It was originally blessed by God [and "sanctified", i.e. set apart for holy use], but in Isaiah's day, people had made it into a burden and a curse.

The Sabbath in Jesus day was an outright perversion of God's original design, but Jesus worked to restore the original spirit and design. (Of course many of His healings were done on the Sabbath.)

The Pharisees having tried to 'protect' the Sabbath, did it at the expense of the people, and the list of regulations increased almost every year. The priests seem to have completely lost sight of the fact that the Sabbath was made "for" Adam [and his entire family].

It was no longer working "for" the people, but "against" them. This, I believe, was the broad setting for Jesus statement in Mark 2:27.

Walking on grass was prohibited because it was a form of threshing or rubbing 'herbage'. A person could mark down one letter of the alphabet, without violating the conception of the law, but it was wrong to mark down two letters. The people were not allowed to carry a mouthful of food two steps on the Sabbath day, as it would be bearing a burden.

 

[Cribstyl]

Yeah. Well I still don't get what Abraham's lineage has to do with anything. Sorry I may just be real slow on this on, but I'm not getting where you're going.

Your reply concerning my comment about no law given at creation was.......

This in no way means there weren't other laws in existence.

I then recommended that we look at Hebrew history to find the laws they claimd to have existed. Here's one
Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess this is where we differ because I believe Pauls's account is about the law.

God summed up His law by saying "Love God" and "Love your neighbor".

Man became so corrupt that it called for a flood, and then soon after man began down that same path of corruption which will bring about the wrath of good unmingled with mercy.

You limit your understanding of what the law is all about because, imo, you're trying to skip around the 4th one.

The spirit of the law testifies to the vicious acts done by man. No it may not be spelled out the way some people would prefer, but that doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it isn't being violated. It's a dangerous game one plays when they try to fault the efficency of God's law with their own brand of techicalities.

I have no response to this, I'll simply disagree with a friendly smile

 

[Cribstyl]

Hello Crib, can we go back half a step to the idea that the Sabbath was made "for man"?

Taking your point that Mark 2:27 is not actually referring to mankind in general, but rather to "the man" (singular), can we agree that the Sabbath was "made" at the end of the creation week, for Adam?

If this is the case, then does it become apparent that the Sabbath was made for a man that was then without sin? And that the Sabbath was not later "added because of transgression"?
_______________________

Isaiah refers to the Sabbath being trodden under foot, and that the Sabbath should have been a source of "delight", and "honorable" (Isa 58:13). It was originally blessed by God [and "sanctified", i.e. set apart for holy use], but in Isaiah's day, people had made it into a burden and a curse.

The Sabbath in Jesus day was an outright perversion of God's original design, but Jesus worked to restore the original spirit and design. (Of course many of His healings were done on the Sabbath.)

The Pharisees having tried to 'protect' the Sabbath, did it at the expense of the people, and the list of regulations increased almost every year. The priests seem to have completely lost sight of the fact that the Sabbath was made "for" Adam [and his entire family].

It was no longer working "for" the people, but "against" them. This, I believe, was the broad setting for Jesus statement in Mark 2:27.

Walking on grass was prohibited because it was a form of threshing or rubbing 'herbage'. A person could mark down one letter of the alphabet, without violating the conception of the law, but it was wrong to mark down two letters. The people were not allowed to carry a mouthful of food two steps on the Sabbath day, as it would be bearing a burden.

According to SDA the creation instituted Sabbath is in #20 and #6 of the 28fundermental beliefs.
Members talk about angels keeping Sabbath and Sabbath being made for mankind. (as partial qoute with commentary)...but in context it's seem questionable to me.

According to Genesis 1-2:3...I believe that God rested, blessed and sanctified the seventh day. I have trouble believing that God's rest has an end to it. Knowing that God is Spirit I dont think He is on earth's timeclock. I have testimony from the Psalms and Hebrew 4 about Him inviting people into His rest. Form my understanding of the 4th commandment, Sabbath was blessed and sanctified as a sign between God and the Children of Israel. If that's true I have trouble believing that Adam knew about the Sabbath.

The bible say the law was added because of trangression did not single out the sabbath

Thank you

 

[Stryder06]

According to Genesis 1-2:3...I believe that God rested, blessed and sanctified the seventh day. I have trouble believing that God's rest has an end to it. Knowing that God is Spirit I dont think He is on earth's timeclock. I have testimony from the Psalms and Hebrew 4 about Him inviting people into His rest. Form my understanding of the 4th commandment, Sabbath was blessed and sanctified as a sign between God and the Children of Israel. If that's true I have trouble believing that Adam knew about the Sabbath.

The bible say the law was added because of trangression did not single out the sabbath

Thank you

Crib, the seventh day was sanctified during creation. Genesis testifies to this does it not? The sabbath was given as a sign so that the heathen nations that did not know God would be able to identify His people.

For example, say someone was away from Israel doing whatever wherever. Say they were among a group of people who did not know the true and living God. Any good deeds that person would do would only identify him as a "good person". But come the seventh day, when he would stop from his labor for no appearant reason, it would cause individuals to wonder. They may ask him "Why do you cease to work on the 7th day?" That then would allow for Him to better open up their understanding of the true God versus any other god's.

And again, your looking at rest wrong. God doesn't get tired. The sabbath is for our benefit. This is why we emphasize relationship. If you would the sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrews uses the actual sabbath as a figure to explain the rest we receive from God when we cease trying to work our way into heaven.

And the law that was added because of transgression wasn't the 10 commandments. Paul says that law, the one that was added, was received through the mediation of angels. The ten commandments were given to Moses, both times, by God exclusively, plus Moses was given the 10 before the Israelites slipped into transgression.

 

[Stewartnz]

Hello again Crib. I think this is a very interesting discussion. Yes, we all have to acknowledge the fact that there ARE significant periods of omission, when it comes to direct Bible references about the Sabbath.

But there is no direct mention of Circumcision having being practiced, from the days of Joshua, until the time of Jeremiah. That is a period of roughly 800 years. Does this silence mean that Circumcision was not practiced during that time?

There is no mention of God in the book of Esther, does that silence mean that Esther did not know about God? It is a silly question really, but my point is that significant "omissions" are not uncommon in the Bible. In fact I think they are more common than many of us realize.

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib, the seventh day was sanctified during creation. Genesis testifies to this does it not?

The details and history given in Genesis span thousands of years proves that probably Moses wrote Genesis.
The fact that we can read and catagorize what happend on the first day, second day, 3,4,5,6th day, what grounds do we have to add, that man was given rest on the seventh day, or make dialog about weeks as if God kept Sabbaths as an "example" for us. (Help me Lord)

By your logic, we can also say, "the reason for blessing and sanctification of the seventh day was explained at creation ....." Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Those who say that He blessed and sanctified it for mankind to keep, are saying more than God's prophets. They also create a link to words use in the 4th commandment to make it a creation instituted Sabbath for all mankind. The bible says God rested because He finished His work of creating, not that man rested every week with God. Excuse me.

The sabbath was given as a sign so that the heathen nations that did not know God would be able to identify His people.

Is that the truth?
God first said, it was to prove (test) The Children of Israel to see if the would follow His laws or not. (bare with me, I know a test is not a sign)

4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.” ​

You may say this only explains that manna is the test, but if you read on, you'd know that going to look for manna on the seventh day was failing the test.

Second reason they had to keep it is that; God made it a commandment in the law and because He sanctified it and made it Holy (Blessed) and Sanctified (set apart) is why they had to keep it as a commandments Ex 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Third reasons God said they had to keep it was because He rested on the seventh day of creation not every seventh day. Ex 20:9 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

Forth reason that God said they had to keep it was to REMEMBER your situation and how God brought you out......
Deut 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The fifth reason they had to keep it was because it was a sign between God and them only.
Exd 31:12And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exd 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exd 31:14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exd 31:15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exd 31:16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exd 31:18And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

The fact about God's rest is that He rested without a clue that others rested with Him.
The fact about the sabbath day is that there a sevearl reasons given WHY to keep it.

For example, say someone was away from Israel doing whatever wherever. Say they were among a group of people who did not know the true and living God. Any good deeds that person would do would only identify him as a "good person". But come the seventh day, when he would stop from his labor for no appearant reason, it would cause individuals to wonder. They may ask him "Why do you cease to work on the 7th day?" That then would allow for Him to better open up their understanding of the true God versus any other god's.

And again, your looking at rest wrong. God doesn't get tired. The sabbath is for our benefit. This is why we emphasize relationship. If you would the sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrews uses the actual sabbath as a figure to explain the rest we receive from God when we cease trying to work our way into heaven.

Who is looking at rest wrong? I've always understood the was no other days for God to work...... I believe that God's rest meant He was finish and went to heaven....no night, no day...eternal. That's why He send A-mail and prophets, etc.
We can talk about Heb. another time.

And the law that was added because of transgression wasn't the 10 commandments. Paul says that law, the one that was added, was received through the mediation of angels.
The ten commandments were given to Moses, both times, by God exclusively, plus Moses was given the 10 before the Israelites slipped into transgression.

I've got a lot to say on that so we'll revisit it later. (pardon my ignorance)

 

[Stryder06]

The details and history given in Genesis span thousands of years proves that probably Moses wrote Genesis.
The fact that we can read and catagorize what happend on the first day, second day, 3,4,5,6th day, what grounds do we have to add, that man was given rest on the seventh day, or make dialog about weeks as if God kept Sabbaths as an "example" for us. (Help me Lord)

By your logic, we can also say, "the reason for blessing and sanctification of the seventh day was explained at creation ....." Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Those who say that He blessed and sanctified it for mankind to keep, are saying more than God's prophets. They also create a link to words use in the 4th commandment to make it a creation instituted Sabbath for all mankind. The bible says God rested because He finished His work of creating, not that man rested every week with God. Excuse me.
Is that the truth?
God first said, it was to prove (test) The Children of Israel to see if the would follow His laws or not. (bare with me, I know a test is not a sign)

4 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.” ​

You may say this only explains that manna is the test, but if you read on, you'd know that going to look for manna on the seventh day was failing the test.

Second reason they had to keep it is that; God made it a commandment in the law and because He sanctified it and made it Holy (Blessed) and Sanctified (set apart) is why they had to keep it as a commandments Ex 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Third reasons God said they had to keep it was because He rested on the seventh day of creation not every seventh day. Ex 20:9 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

Forth reason that God said they had to keep it was to REMEBER your situation and how God brought you out......
Deut 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The fifth reason they had to keep it was because it was a sign between God and them only.
Exd 31:12And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exd 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exd 31:14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exd 31:15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exd 31:16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exd 31:18And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

The fact about God's rest is alway that He rested without a clue that others rested with Him.




Who is looking at rest wrong? I've always understood the was no other days for God to work...... I believe that God's rest meant He was finish and went to heaven....no night, no day...eternal. That's why He send A-mail and prophets, etc.
We can talk about Heb. another time.
I've got a lot to say on that so we'll revisit it later......sabbath is comming

Well Crib, as always I see that dividing partion in the road up ahead...

 

[Cribstyl]

Hello again Crib. I think this is a very interesting discussion. Yes, we all have to acknowledge the fact that there ARE significant periods of omission, when it comes to direct Bible references about the Sabbath.

Agreed...but should we fill in the blanks?

But there is no direct mention of Circumcision having being practiced, from the days of Joshua, until the time of Jeremiah. That is a period of roughly 800 years. Does this silence mean that Circumcision was not practiced during that time?

Maybe that was a bad example on your part, because we have the word of God to say that; God gave Abraham circumcision as an everlasting covenant.

Gen 17:11And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

This actually sheds light on how and exactly God instituted the circumcision as an everlasting covenant.

There is no mention of God in the book of Esther, does that silence mean that Esther did not know about God? It is a silly question really, but my point is that significant "omissions" are not uncommon in the Bible. In fact I think they are more common than many of us realize.

Since we making commentary; One truth to know about God,.... He is obligated to perform every word that goes out of His mouth. "if it's written" it will come to past.
We must be very careful of what people say is more important than what is written in the bible.

 

[Cribstyl]

Well Crib, as always I see that dividing partion in the road up ahead...

Hope I did'nt offend again...I am (was) actually prepping for the sabbath is what I meant..
But, I kinda disappointed to see you run off rather than address my post as I do all your posts.

 

[Cribstyl]

Hello again Crib. I think this is a very interesting discussion. Yes, we all have to acknowledge the fact that there ARE significant periods of omission, when it comes to direct Bible references about the Sabbath.

But there is no direct mention of Circumcision having being practiced, from the days of Joshua, until the time of Jeremiah. That is a period of roughly 800 years. Does this silence mean that Circumcision was not practiced during that time?

There is no mention of God in the book of Esther, does that silence mean that Esther did not know about God? It is a silly question really, but my point is that significant "omissions" are not uncommon in the Bible. In fact I think they are more common than many of us realize.

Deductive reasoning is not how we follow God's word. That's why we'll be accountable for the covenant sealed with the blood of His Son.
Knowing what God requires of us is a secret to some people......