Possilbity of past life on Mars?

[Ophiolite]

I am too young to remember the Viking explorations, but my understanding is they looked for life without first trying to figure out if the requirements for life to exist were present. If this is the case, NASA made a good decision by reversing the order of operations.

That is illogical. We can stipulate the requirements for Earth like life. We do not know what other forms of life, if any, there may be and what the requirements would be for those forms of life.

Consequently, in seeking if "the requirements for life to exist were present", all NASA could determine is if the requirements for Earth like life were present. NASA's decision, with the Viking landers, to search directly for Earth like life cut out the unnecessary middle stage. Their subsequent decision not to directly pursue the ambiguous results from the landers may turn out to be monumentally dumb.

The problem was NASA later got the idea that life can exist without water and there may even be species that cannot exist on Earth but did live on Mars.

NASA scientists would never have doubted that there could be "species that cannot exist on Earth but did live on Mars." What would have been astounding is if they believed the two planets could actually host the same species.

NASA scientists would always have recognised the possibility of non-water based life. That concept has been around for many years before Viking. I'm not clear why you think that is significant.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I did not agree with him, but years ago one guy made this bold claim: "NASA killed life on Mars." That did not materialize, but it was interesting.

 

[SLP]

It has been known for 50 years that Mars has polar ice, and it's been theorized that it melts or sublimes during the summers. Remember that the first NASA lander on Mars was 'way back in 1977.

However, Mars has always had only 1/3 the mass of Earth to retain atmosphere, and Mars has always received only 1/4 of the solar heating of Earth to energize chemical processes, and Mars has never had a life-protecting magnetosphere of Earth.

Mars may have some of the most simple forms of life, but it never had enough water, heat, or atmosphere to have reached something like Earth's Cambrian period.

I would agree, providing we are only considering life as we know it.

 

[SLP]

There are universities in California that recognizes twenty-one genders,

Which ones?

with professors who teach them in their Gender Studies.

Maybe they do. I'm betting they teach other stuff, too.

I'm sure they have a good paying job with benefits, but what they teach necessary?

Define 'necessary."

 

[Ophiolite]

I did not agree with him, but years ago one guy made this bold claim: "NASA killed life on Mars." That did not materialize, but it was interesting.

I don't understand how this relates to my previous post, to which this appears to be a reply.
I don't understand what you think "one guy" meant by his claim.
I don't understand what "did not materialize".
I hope your reply will help my understanding.

 

[GodLovesCats]

It was just a comment. The guy believed NASA's rovers are capable of killing a form of life that's invisible to astronomers. Nobody followed suit and did something about it.

 

[Ophiolite]

It was just a comment. The guy believed NASA's rovers are capable of killing a form of life that's invisible to astronomers. Nobody followed suit and did something about it.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't suppose you have any information on who this guy was, what position he held, where he said this, what his credentials were for having an opinion on the matter, or anything at all of substance on the matter?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Some people are just crazy. For all we know (nothing), he could have a biology degree of some sort.

Anyway, now I feel like an idiot because I own a Discover magazine that has a piece on plate tectonics. It even has images of superconintnents before Pangea.

 

[Ophiolite]

Anyway, now I feel like an idiot because I own a Discover magazine that has a piece on plate tectonics. It even has images of superconintnents before Pangea.

I shouldn't worry about that. Being uninformed about one or other aspect of science is hardly idiotic. For example, every geologist on the planet is ignorant of more geological facts than those they are knowledgeable about. The same applies to every science.

Some people are just crazy. For all we know (nothing), he could have a biology degree of some sort.

I would be more worried about this. You chose to throw in an ambiguous, casual remark from someone you couldn't identify, whose qualifications were a mystery to you, whose precise statement you could not quote, the source of which was unknown and yet you seemed to imagine that this would somehow contribute something of value to the discussion.

So, don't worry about things you don't yet know about - those are fun waiting to happen. But, do be more thoughtful when it comes to off the cuff remarks.

 

[GodLovesCats]

What would surprise you more:

A discovery there is life on Mars today
or
A discovery of fossils like some on Earth

 

[Shemjaza]

What would surprise you more:

A discovery there is life on Mars today
or
A discovery of fossils like some on Earth

Do you mean fossils of very simple life, or complex life?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Do you mean fossils of very simple life, or complex life?

Scientifically any fossilized organism is complex by definition, even if it would be considered simple to us.

 

[Shemjaza]

Scientifically any fossilized organism is complex by definition, even if it would be considered simple to us.

I was thinking of single celled colony organisms vs crabs, shellfish, monkeys.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I was thinking of single celled colony organisms vs crabs, shellfish, monkeys.

NASA originally was thinking of these too. The belief is if any life exists on Mars, it would be microbes like bacteria because of the atmospheric and water losses. I think it is possible organisms that do not need to inhale oxygen could live on Mars, but relatively few will fit all of the criteria to survive.

 

[Shemjaza]

NASA originally was thinking of these too. The belief is if any life exists on Mars, it would be microbes like bacteria because of the atmospheric and water losses. I think it is possible organisms that do not need to inhale oxygen could live on Mars, but relatively few will fit all of the criteria to survive.

It's very cold, dry and thin now... I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I'd think it's not going to be obvious like life on our planet.

 

[Ophiolite]

Scientifically any fossilized organism is complex by definition, even if it would be considered simple to us.

This makes no sense to me. Would you explain what you mean?
Are you arguing that only a complex organism can be fossilised?
Are you arguing that all organisms are complex?
Are you arguing something else?

 

[GodLovesCats]

I am talking about the official scientific definition of the term that taxonomists use.

 

[Ophiolite]

I am talking about the official scientific definition of the term that taxonomists use.

Man, it is frustrating discussing things with you! Would you care do to the courteous, cooperative, positive, time saving thing and share with us what you think that definition is?