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Featured Possible renderings of "El shaddai"

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Leaf473, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Member

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Scholars are not certain on what it means.

    Most suggest & accept that it means God Almighty, others Sufficient.

    some scholars are even of the belief that it means God of (many) Breasts
     
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  3. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Member

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    @Der Alte
    Hi!

    I was somewhat interested in the word El shaddai, because I was preparing to talk to some JW's who I was pretty sure were going to say that it meant "Almighty", and was only ever used of God (never Jesus).
    JW theology aside, I looked at some different translations here
    Genesis 17:1 - Bible Gateway

    I saw that while the vast majority translated it as almighty, the nirv translated it as
    the mighty God, and the Message as
    the strong God.

    I knew that those two were not literal translations, but I was still curious as to what would lead those two scholars to render it differently.

    So, Der Alte, what possible reasons could those translators have for not rendering it almighty God?
     
  4. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Member

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    Yes, that was my impression as well.
     
  5. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Psalm 65, Numbers 6:2 Supporter

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    Imo, El shaddai represents the feminine image of God where mankind, male and female, are made in His image. When told to Abram "walk before Me and be made whole" represents the part of mankind's finishing of the healing work and God's role in the nurturing.
     
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  6. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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  7. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Member

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    That's a possibility, and I like the implications!
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Isaiah 1:9.

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    So the question then, is Jesus the Almighty?
    Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Almighty-[G3841]pantokrator, which is used by many scholars in place of YHWH tsava Lord of Hosts,
    not El Shaddai.
    as in OJB:
    Rev. 1:8. Ani Hu the Aleph and the Tav, says Hashem Adonoi, the One who is and the One who was and the One coming, Adonoi Tzivos (L-rd of armies).

    Exodus 6:3. And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name El Shaddai,
    but by my name YHWH was I not known to them.

    Since El Shaddai=YHWH, the real question becomes, is YHWH The Father or The Son?
     
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  9. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Psalm 65, Numbers 6:2 Supporter

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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  10. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Almighty God, the mighty God, and the strong God mean the same thing.

    By the same logic, the English word "understand" means to stand under a tree!!!

    He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
     
  11. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

    Revelation 1:7-8
    7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
    8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

    We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

    Revelation 1:17
    17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

    We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.

    Revelation 2:8
    "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

    Revelation 22:12-13
    12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

    We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

    Revelation 22:16,20
    16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
    20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

    The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),

    Daniel 7:13-14
    And behold, with the clouds of heaven
    One like a Son of Man was coming,
    And He came up to the Ancient of Days
    And was presented before Him.
    14 "And to Him was given dominion,
    Glory and a kingdom,
    That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
    Might serve Him.
    His dominion is an everlasting dominion
    Which will not pass away;
    And His kingdom is one
    Which will not be destroyed.

    Matthew 24:30-31
    30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

    Matthew 26:64
    Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

    1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
    Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

    Revelation 1:7-8
    7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
    8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

    So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

    Isaiah 44:6
    Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
    And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
    'I am the first and I am the last,
    And there is no God besides Me.

    Isaiah 48:12
    "Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
    I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

    hope this helps !!!
     
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  12. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Psalm 65, Numbers 6:2 Supporter

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    Depends on which tree you are standing under :yawn:
     
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  13. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Member

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    Thanks for the link!

    I found this quote in that article:
    "In Ex. vi. 2 Yhwh is identified with El-Shaddai, the god of the Patriarchs. What the latter name means is still in doubt..."
     
  14. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
     

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  15. Andrewn

    Andrewn Well-Known Member CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    As you can see, the spelling is completely different.
     

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  16. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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  17. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Psalm 65, Numbers 6:2 Supporter

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    Because it has been deemed unknown, why should I accept that? Almighty is merely the preferred interpretation that interpreters have run with.
    Psalm 8:5
    — A Little Lower Than God? —
    [​IMG]

    Elohim means al-mighty too. So here it shows the need of mankind, while His sufficiency supplies the need, which corresponds to post 5
    The particle די (dy) means sufficiently or enough and implies an abundance. Whereas
    שד, means breast, bosom, A relationship wherein God has placed Himself as mankind’s helpmate so using the name Shaddai is not unthinkable since this is the name by which God initiates the covenant of which Jesus is the final fulfillment. And Paul compares the intro to the basis of Christianity with feeding milk to babes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  18. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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  19. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Member

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  20. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Psalm 65, Numbers 6:2 Supporter

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    As far as speaking to Jw's as the Op mentioned as the reason for the research, the objectional term for them is Revelation 1:8. From the Greek the only other usage of that term is 2 Corinthians 6:18 That also shows the statement of creation as well as the further revelation of the Father's glory in His children.
     
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