Pork

[Sephania]

What I mean is , examining these things before we put them into our mouths. Does HaShem say this is good for us to eat or not? Is there a little leaven in there? I believe that just like the moedim, eating Kosher is also a Shadow/type kind of lesson, one that we have to deal with every day, we need fuel for our bodies, but we also need fuel for our spirit. The body one helps to show us the spiritual one. The body one helps us to witness to the spiritual food to not bring others to eating "Kosher" but furthur, to leading them into eating Spiriturally what is Kosher.

 

[P_G]

Who said I was being sarcastic?

Do you see a winky thing around here anywheres?


Thats the point see
You stumble and the whole world sees

So now what?

 

[P_G]

I mean there I was and my wife said
here taste this

and before I knew it that shrimp was in my mouth chewed up

What a dolt

 

[Sephania]

George, I feel for you, I did not know this was something you both are not in agreement on. That can be dangerous, and you will feel torn. That is not good. House divided and all that.

If you are worried about the shrimp, forget it, I am sure you repented as soon as you realized. You are certainly not a dolt! But I think this did show that we need to be careful to not do anything indesciminatly, even something so simple and innocent as accepting from someone who loves us and we love something at their word. We always need to hold it up to his word. This is a growing process. But rejoice! for he has chosen you to walk in this way, and your remorse is well accepted, for it shows your deep love for him and sorrowfulness as your own failings, but he is faithful to forgive and also to pick you up and encourage you to continue on and follow where he is leading.

Dont' look back, look ahead.

 

[Sephania]

And as far as the whole world seeing? So what?
It only matters what he sees, and He sees what is in your heart.
And that is all, ALL that matters.

 

[Sephania]

This just reminded me of something a Messianic Jew once told me. In his house they observed Kosher. On special occasions they would have Shrimp cocktail. He was told that the sauce ( the cocktail sauce) made it Kosher.

Imagine how he felt when he grew up and found out?

 

[P_G]

But what of desire?

If you want to have a slice of bacon but do not?

doesn't the sermon on the mount indicate that G-d looks at your heart?

and heaven knows there is no further sacrifice left
there cannot be a second crucifixtion

This whole observance thing seems to be a slippery slope I fear

Perhaps the guilt and condemnation is unwaranted and uneeded


PG

 

[ShirChadash]

But what of desire?

This whole observance thing seems to be a slippery slope I fear

eh heh... thought that's where you might be going with your first post on this thread.

 

[P_G]

eh heh... thought that's where you might be going with your first post on this thread.

I am not really going anywhere Zemmy

FWIW I do not knowingly eat unclean critters
and I worry sick over things that I might slip up on


but I don't

Thats where I am at
If it is not ok to say that then cool


PG

 

[ShirChadash]

I ask again:

I struggle so much with the kosher thing

Oh I work on keeping at least biblically kosher
but then I will eat say some turkey and be told it's not kosher
either because it was not butchered right nor did it have the right
supervision from barnyard to plate.

Even as it is I stumble Bonnie gave me a shrimp the other day and I
ate it without thinking.

I am a horrible sinner and surely destinated for the firey pits of hell. I wish I really wish there was some kind of way I could be saved from these sins. But alas I am likely eternally lost.

PG

Do you really think ^ that, George? I'm curious. I don't think most people here actually would agree with the above comments... or would suggest such things as that one is "likely eternally lost" because one slips up on such an issue as kosher eating. So 1) do you really think that ^ up there that I bolded, and 2) if not, why post it? I am only asking because I think it possibly reflects badly on this forum as a whole and suggests to "others" who come to read here that some/many/a few people here honestly believe we'll all be thrown to the fiery pits of hell because we personally struggle to adhere to any of the mitvot, kosher eating or otherwise.

 

[ShirChadash]

BTW it's more than fine to say you struggle and slip up -- who doesn't? I do... every hour, every minute I am sure, on something. But it isn't the end of me, and my G-d is not a G-d Who is keeping tabs of my every wrong move in order to condemn me. That's the ENEMY of my G-d who is doing that. No, instead He rejoices over every repentant thought and prayer and action I have after I fall. And He lifts me up and sets me back on the path. I'm quite assured He does the same with you, PG, and everyone else who believes in Him and is in relationship with Him through His salvation. Nu. I wasn't telling you I think you're not welcome to share that you stumble and struggle.

 

[P_G]

I dunno Zemmy
I read much
Say little

But there seems from what I read to be I dunno like
If you are not keeping the whole of the law that you are maybe unsaved
or an indication that you are perhaps paying lip service to it.

Maybe I read wrong

I should probably not venture a foray into threads like this because they just get me more wound up.

No I am probably not in danger of the final wrath
but sure gets to feeling like that some days.

 

[Avodah]

I dunno Zemmy
I read much
Say little

But there seems from what I read to be I dunno like
If you are not keeping the whole of the law that you are maybe unsaved

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:28)

 

[P_G]

How well I know the scriptures brother

But then what of those who call into question all of what Shaul wrote? As non canonical - perhaps even not inspired?

PG

 

[ShirChadash]

I dunno Zemmy
I read much
Say little

But there seems from what I read to be I dunno like
If you are not keeping the whole of the law that you are maybe unsaved
or an indication that you are perhaps paying lip service to it.

And what posts have you read in which people are saying these things?

Or are you taking what some people post, in ways in which their comments were not, perhaps, intended by the authors?

Ya know... I perceive that you have this fake doe-in-the-headlights tone to your manner of posting sometimes, in order to (I am sure you hope) get people to thinking about what they are posting here and how it might be perceived; that doe-act doesn't lend itself well to discussion, I think, and comes off rather passive-aggressively in my very humble, low on the totem-pole, mainly-unwelcome-here opinion. If you feel that anyone here has said that those who do not keep the whole of the law are unsaved... hey, you're an admin... I should think you could address it more directly, rather than play posting games, PG.

 

[Sephania]

I dunno Zemmy
I read much
Say little

But there seems from what I read to be I dunno like
If you are not keeping the whole of the law that you are maybe unsaved
or an indication that you are perhaps paying lip service to it.

Maybe I read wrong

I should probably not venture a foray into threads like this because they just get me more wound up.

No I am probably not in danger of the final wrath
but sure gets to feeling like that some days.

I know this wasn't addressed to ths Z, but I feel lead to respond anyway.
First, no one, not a one can keep the whole law. AND< AND this is VERY Important, that is NOT what or Who brings you salvation. SALVATION comes from faith in Yeshua and what he did for you, not what you did for him. PERIOD!!!!!!!!

He knows your heart and what it's intentions are and any one else opinion will not have effect, one way or another on if you are saved and have a place awaiting you in heaven.

If you feel danger, then ask him, let him tell you what you need to get straight about, but don't let things that you aren't even participating in allow to be used against you by so and so whispering in your ear. If it applies and you think the L-rD is telling you that, then fine, let him lead you , but if it is someone else holding you up to the light, tell him to BACK OFF, you aint' belivin that.
Maybe you should participate more instead of lurking because then you can get clarification, instead of listening to one who is your enemy.

 

[yod]

I am only asking because I think it possibly reflects badly on this forum as a whole and suggests to "others" who come to read here that some/many/a few people here honestly believe we'll all be thrown to the fiery pits of hell because we personally struggle to adhere to any of the mitvot, kosher eating or otherwise

But that was stated in not-so-many-words a short time ago in a thread that first got me so "endeared" to the kosher discussion.


Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't THAT the point of the "What is the difference" thread that Shimshon started? He seemed to dance around saying that non-torah observance is sin and anyone who is not torah-observant was not "in" Messiah.


If that was what he intended to say then it does condemn almost every christian on the planet as unsaved (pagan was the word I used).

I hoped he wasn't implying that...but when I tried to get him to elaborate on whether it was his intent to say that, he ignored the question.


I finally made an aggresive challenge hoping to provoke a direct answer and he came back with "I'm not going to play that game".

Then I got jumped on by some "others" here for daring to confront him in the matter....as if they were in total agreement with his premise.


So what are people supposed to think?

If being non-kosher is equal to being non-torah-observant...and being non-torah-observant is equal to sin, then the logical conclusion is that we ARE saying that someone who eats pepperoni pizza is a habitual sinner in voluntary rebellion to God.....especially if they know it is against the Levitical diet. How can a "true" saint be in habitual rebellion against G-d?

Don't tell me it didn't happen that way because it was said directly to me that eating pork is as much a sin as incest.

This concept would then be logically applied to those who do not "observe" Shabbat or the Feasts also.


If that is not the position of those who call themselves Torah-observant on this board then could you please elaborate?


I don't think you guys actually believe that...yet you seem to want it both ways?

 

[Sephania]

I just realized





PORK is a 4-letter word.

 

[yod]

so is HOPE

 

[ShirChadash]

But that was stated in not-so-many-words a short time ago in a thread that first got me so "endeared" to the kosher discussion.


Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the point of the "What is the difference" thread that Shimshon started? He seemed to dance around saying that non-torah observance is sin and anyone who is not torah-observant was not "in" Messiah.

And since when did one person become some/many/a few people here? As I had stated to PG:

I'm curious. I don't think most people here actually would agree with the above comments... or would suggest such things as that one is "likely eternally lost" because one slips up on such an issue as kosher eating. So 1) do you really think that ^ up there that I bolded, and 2) if not, why post it? I am only asking because I think it possibly reflects badly on this forum as a whole and suggests to "others" who come to read here that some/many/a few people here honestly believe we'll all be thrown to the fiery pits of hell because we personally struggle to adhere to any of the mitvot, kosher eating or otherwise.

Are we back to generalizations and blanket-painting of people who post here on this forum, as a whole?

That does condemn almost every christian on the planet as unsaved (or pagan). When I tried to get him to elaborate on whether it was his intent to say that and he ignored the question.

Since when did one person become some/many/a few people here? And how long ago now did that thread fall to the bottom of the kill pile around here?

If being non-kosher is equal to being non-torah-observant...and that is equal to sin, then we ARE saying that someone who eats bacon is a habitual sinner in rebellion to God especially if they know it is against the Levitical diet.

Heh, we are all habitual sinners in rebellion to G-d, in some way or another in our lives every single day, and most often in areas in which we already know what G-d has to say on the matter. Why should people declaring that kosher-eating is in line with living as He told us to... be any different? It isn't.

Don't tell me that hasn't been said because it has been said directly to me.

I wasn't telling you anything. I was mentioning to PG that, perhaps, another choice of action might have been called for and more effective, especially considering he has the authority to address people more directly as an admin of the site, but again that is my ever so "blahblahblah" of an opinion.

Is that not the position of those who call themselves Torah-observant on this board?

I don't think you guys actually believe that...yet you seem to want it both ways?

Clearly, you do not understand the position of the Torah-embracers of this board. Still. The Word itself says there is a "better salvation" to be had. What that means, I don't fully know and suspect I won't, so I'll just keep doing what I am led to and going where I am led to and yes, by The Spirit of G-d. Far be it from me to try to convince you that people can be called differently from you to live out their faith into their lives in different ways from the way you are called to, or that G-d can be trusted to have His Way with His own, no matter what we individuals think about how they are living their faith, no matter who they are or where they are at.