Popes and understanding infallible and magisterial authority

[Athanasias]

Many non-Catholics do not have a good understanding of how Popes can error and have or how not only Pope but also Bishops in union with the Pope can teach infallibly at times. Exorcist and scholar Fr. Chad Ripperger has a great short pamphlet that is in depth and shows how Catholics believe this and what are the specifications and levels and when can we tell. This will help clear up alot of confusion I hope. I have given this out to the RCIA students who are coming from protestant and other backgrounds and want to really know what the teaching is. Check it out. Its worth it. If nothing else you will have knowledge of this area even if you do not agree with it. But you will also find you may have had many misconceptions(as do many Cradle Catholics) on this issue.

This is not a book that defends the issue or explains the biblical or historical foundations in depth rather its an explanation of how Catholics understand these levels of teaching using some historical example and the theology of the Church. Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Magisterial-Authority-Fr-Chad-Ripperger/dp/1503022420

here is a Video by him that explain it as well!

This video is also good:

 

[RobertM.]

Did St. Ignatius die for your sins Did the pope die for your sins? The bible is the Word of the one who died for your sins. You don't need any other book.

 

[Athanasias]

Did St. Ignatius die for your sins Did the pope die for your sins? The bible is the Word of the one who died for your sins. You don't need any other book.

Thank you for your reply. Which Ignatius were you referring to? I do not think I ever mentioned in this post Ignatius dying for my sin. Where did you get that from? Christ died for our sins. No doubt sacred scripture is authoritative and inerrant. But what other book are you talking about? The book I mentioned merely describes the theology of why(like a doctrinal commentary) but it never replaces or is even on par with the bible. I never suggested that. Where did you get that idea from brother?

 

[anna ~ grace]

So, here's how some have described it to me. Saint Peter was left in charge, and those who came after him. The Pope is infallible when he confirms a Truth of the Church in Charity to the Church.

He is not sinless, perfect, incapable of heresy or error, or a deity. But he does sit in the chair of Peter, whom Christ asked to feed His sheep, as Shepherd, in His stead. Hence the term "Vicar of Christ". Peter stumbled, fell, and also penned Scripture. So, a Pope can both err, and later, confirm the Truth by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Athanasias]

So, here's how some have described it to me. Saint Peter was left in charge, and those who came after him. The Pope is infallible when he confirms a Truth of the Church in Charity to the Church.

He is not sinless, perfect, incapable of heresy or error, or a deity. But he does sit in the chair of Peter, whom Christ asked to feed His sheep, as Shepherd, in His stead. Hence the term "Vicar of Christ". Peter stumbled, fell, and also penned Scripture. So, a Pope can both err, and later, confirm the Truth by the Holy Spirit.

This is a decent very basic understanding I think. The book goes into much more depth about when Popes have and can error historically and when they are infallible and when Bishops in union with the Pope can be infallible. But yeah not a bad understanding. There are conditions that are defined when dealing with infallibility. Also the book touches on the assent and authority of the faithful in non-infallible statements.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Many non-Catholics do not have a good understanding of how Popes can error and have or how not only Pope but also Bishops in union with the Pope can teach infallibly at times. Exorcist and scholar Fr. Chad Ripperger has a great short pamphlet that is in depth and shows how Catholics believe this and what are the specifications and levels and when can we tell. This will help clear up alot of confusion I hope. I have given this out to the RCIA students who are coming from protestant and other backgrounds and want to really know what the teaching is. Check it out. Its worth it. If nothing else you will have knowledge of this area even if you do not agree with it. But you will also find you may have had many misconceptions(as do many Cradle Catholics) on this issue.

This is not a book that defends the issue or explains the biblical or historical foundations in depth rather its an explanation of how Catholics understand these levels of teaching using some historical example and the theology of the Church. Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Magisterial-Authority-Fr-Chad-Ripperger/dp/1503022420

here is a Video by him that explain it as well!

This video is also good:

The Pope is a sinner like all the rest of us and he is just as dependent on the finished work of Christ as you and me. It is just that he wears fancier clothes than we do, lives in a palace surrounded by servants, and acts as the CEO of a major world-wide religious organisation whose members love and honour him as being much closer to Christ than they are.

 

[RobertM.]

Thank you for your reply. Which Ignatius were you referring to? I do not think I ever mentioned in this post Ignatius dying for my sin. Where did you get that from? Christ died for our sins. No doubt sacred scripture is authoritative and inerrant. But what other book are you talking about? The book I mentioned merely describes the theology of why(like a doctrinal commentary) but it never replaces or is even on par with the bible. I never suggested that. Where did you get that idea from brother?

I never suggested that you said Ignatius died for your sins. I merely pointed to the highest and infallible authority. Books? Can the Holy Ghost not tell you the why of scripture, and that without the error of man, without the additional cost of yet another book? If you don't have the Holy Ghost, ask him to come and "lead you into all truth."

 

[John Bowen]

From my studies the Bible says something totally different Jesus said, " I will send another the comforter . which is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name , he shall teach you all things . " The Holy Spirit " bloweth were it listeh" How can it be held in any man made institution , or in a succession of Popes ? and a person doesn't have to be the high and mighty it can flow through anyone who's heart is open. Jesus was speaking to all of humanity when he said this is the rock I shall build my church on . Which is the kind of person who recognizes the Christ which Peter did . But latter Peter failed the second test when he thought he knew how the Christ should be in this world . Which is why Jesus said , " Get thee behind me Satan " I hope the 1.4 billion Catholics rise up and demand change so the church can continue . Cause today no words have ever been truer than then Jesus said , 'Ye shall know them by their fruits " .

 

[chevyontheriver]

The Pope is a sinner like all the rest of us

Yup.

and he is just as dependent on the finished work of Christ as you and me.

Yup.

It is just that he wears fancier clothes than we do, lives in a palace surrounded by servants, and acts as the CEO of a major world-wide religious organisation whose members love and honour him as being much closer to Christ than they are.

I think you have the pope confused with some televangelists.

 

[gordonhooker]

The Pope is a sinner like all the rest of us and he is just as dependent on the finished work of Christ as you and me. It is just that he wears fancier clothes than we do, lives in a palace surrounded by servants, and acts as the CEO of a major world-wide religious organisation whose members love and honour him as being much closer to Christ than they are.

Actually, the current Pope does not live in a palace he lives in one of the guest apartments he chose a simpler lifestyle than previous Popes.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Actually, the current Pope does not live in a palace he lives in one of the guest apartments he chose a simpler lifestyle than previous Popes.

And pope John Paul did live in a palace, but lived in only two rooms of that palace and his personal possessions amounted to nothing.

 

[John Bowen]

2/3 the world lives in poverty millions starving to death many children many are Catholics while the Vatican has assets of 15 billion the largest land owner in the world .and they claim to represent Jesus ? who commanded us to " Feed my sheep ! "

 

[anna ~ grace]

2/3 the world lives in poverty millions starving to death many children many are Catholics while the Vatican has assets of 15 billion the largest land owner in the world .and they claim to represent Jesus ? who commanded us to " Feed my sheep ! "

Charity, my friend. Charity.

 

[gordonhooker]

And pope John Paul did live in a palace, but lived in only two rooms of that palace and his personal possessions amounted to nothing.

And I am sure there are many exceptions over the years...

 

[Radagast]

The Pope is infallible when he confirms a Truth of the Church in Charity to the Church.

Well, the doctrine of papal infallibility goes well beyond that.

 

[Radagast]

while the Vatican has assets of 15 billion the largest land owner in the world .and they claim to represent Jesus ? who commanded us to " Feed my sheep ! "

I believe that's for the Catholic Church as a whole. And obviously, they own a lot of church buildings. There's nothing wrong with that.

The Vatican specifically owns a lot of artwork which can't be sold because it's painted on the walls.

 

[gordonhooker]

Well, the doctrine of papal infallibility goes well beyond that.

How so brother? Given what I have read that statement seems to cover it.

 

[Radagast]

How so brother? Given what I have read that statement seems to cover it.

Well, not quite. This is the dogma:

"Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema."

 

[gordonhooker]

Well, not quite. This is the dogma:

"Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema."

Thanks brother, which is a long winded way of saying what Sister Gracia Singh said.

 

[Radagast]

Thanks brother, which is a long winded way of saying what Sister Gracia Singh said.

Quite simply, no.

Sister Gracia Singh said "The Pope is infallible when he confirms a Truth of the Church in Charity to the Church." But in fact, when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, anything he says becomes the truth, for Catholics, even when he defines a new doctrine. Furthermore, the consent of the church is not necessary to the process. That's what my lengthy quote of the actual dogma says.