Pope reaffirms Church opposition to contraception

[Rochir]

Ask some European Catholics how they feel about such a popal statement!

 

[Filia Mariae]

Sorry you are wrong. I was told - in the confessional - by a priest (so I take it that he was speaking on behalf of Jesus) that using a condom whilst committing fornication was NOT an additional sin. According to him, bringing a child into the world when the parents were not married would have been a big mistake. He therefore told me that condom use would not add to the sin which (he thought that) I was already committing.

This is actually incorrect information. Contraception is sinful, whether the couple is married or not. The theory being purported above is essentially consequentialism, which is rejected by the Church (see Veritatis Splendor if you don't believe me)

 

[Fantine]

I do think it is good that Pope Benedict XVI has written an encyclical. I was wondering what the latest polls on Catholic views said about birth control, and here is what I found on Zogby, July, 2008:

When asked about a number of personal behaviors, 31% of American Catholics agree that using artificial birth control is a sin and 73% agree that abortion is a sin. Those Catholics who came of age prior to Vatican II are the most likely to agree that using artificial birth control is sinful. 42% of Catholics 68 or older felt this way, while only 30% of those younger than 68 agreed. There are no generational differences in abortion attitudes.

I found that really surprising. I think that 31% is much higher than what it used to be years ago (of course, I spent my childbearing years in NY, which is a very liberal place.)

And so perhaps Pope John Paul II's and Pope Benedict's encyclicals have affected public opinion among Catholics. But I think 31% is phenomenally high--I would have guessed 10%.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I do think it is good that Pope Benedict XVI has written an encyclical. I was wondering what the latest polls on Catholic views said about birth control, and here is what I found on Zogby, July, 2008:



I found that really surprising. I think that 31% is much higher than what it used to be years ago (of course, I spent my childbearing years in NY, which is a very liberal place.)

And so perhaps Pope John Paul II's and Pope Benedict's encyclicals have affected public opinion among Catholics. But I think 31% is phenomenally high--I would have guessed 10%.

I think that polls like that show that although there may be a shortage of people who want to become priests, there is no shortage of people who want to be a Pope.

 

[April Angel]

This is actually incorrect information. Contraception is sinful, whether the couple is married or not. The theory being purported above is essentially consequentialism, which is rejected by the Church (see Veritatis Splendor if you don't believe me)

So, are you saying that the Church encourages people who are not married to leave themselves open to the possibility of infection with various diseases? Are you also saying that the Church is encouraging young people to leave themselves open to pregnancy by stating that condom-use is an extra sin, in addition to fornication?

Well, all I can say in response to that, is that I am very glad that I was living in England when I was a young person. I am also eternally grateful for the guidance of my dear Bishop, Cardinal Hume. What kind of future would I have had otherwise, I wonder? Infertility caused by chlamydia? Cervical cancer caused by the Human Papilloma virus? Death caused by HIV? Certainly, I probably would not have been able to produce the number of children which I did, subsequently produce after I managed to get a man to agree to marry me.

Contraception is sinful, whether the couple is married or not.

Please could you supply a legitimate source for this statement. Thank you.

I told you the pope doesn't have time to write letters?

You told me that the Pontiff is very busy and does not have time to write letters about individual circumstances with regard to their struggles with the Church's teachings on the subject of contraception.

I also got the impression that the Pope would not be bothered to explain is rationale to the laity after reading the following description of Pope John Paul II's sentiments on the subject.

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/articles/6784/

After the congress Worlock organised the writing of the official report, and the draft of the bishops? response to it. He took over a room above his garage for a team that mainly consisted of Jack Mahoney, the Jesuit moral theologian, Pat Jones, a young laywoman Worlock had got to know from both her parents being full-time YCW workers, and Mgr George Leonard, a Shrewsbury diocese priest who was press officer and public affairs assistant to Cardinal Hume in Westminster. They had six weeks to prepare for the Bishops? Conference a draft statement of response to the congress, for it to amend as it pleased. In the end it was a composite job, largely from my pen, Worlock wrote later to Hume. In fact it went through the Bishops? Conference more or less as drafted, and was published under the title The Easter People.
The most delicate passage of all was on marriage, contraception and divorce. Prior to the international synod, Cardinal Hume and Archbishop Worlock visited the Pope in Rome to present him with a personal copy of The Easter People. They clearly felt it was nothing to be ashamed of. But Hume later described how he handed it across, deliberately opened at the page on birth control, and drew it to the Pope?s attention. The Pope merely waved it to one side. It was an unfavourable omen.

 

[Weird]

Welcom to Catholocism. Ever been to Confession? Recall that we are to state how long it's been since our last Confession, what are sins are, and how many times we comitted them.

Man-on-man fornication with a condom is one act of grave matter.

Man-on-woman fornication with a condom is two.



The funniest part is, that the Church doesn't even say it's wrong - they say teh gay sex is wrong. Church teaching on contraception is irrelevant to strictly gay, non-bisexual people - whether they are sexually active or not.

Never knew that... I just remember when i was younger, and went to confession the priest told me that i have impoved so i never went to confession anymore... I was supposed to be forgiven so even if i sin less than the time before it means i havent improved... anways

If gay sex is wrong, then it wss not necessary to talk about he use of condoms because this will open a door for "if there is a gay fornication..."
in other words, the use of condoms in a gay fornication is not to be discussed by the Pope because in the frust place it was not to exist. Like for example if killing is wrong, then killing with a knife is not a matter of discussion for killing in any case is wrong....

Sorry you are wrong. I was told - in the confessional - by a priest (so I take it that he was speaking on behalf of Jesus) that using a condom whilst committing fornication was NOT an additional sin. According to him, bringing a child into the world when the parents were not married would have been a big mistake. He therefore told me that condom use would not add to the sin which (he thought that) I was already committing.

This is because he may have thought that God would not care for that little child coming to world because of his parents sin or what? The child that comes to the world in any way is God's chosen and by His will it happened... So i guess forming his won therory was not good enough this time...

Ask some European Catholics how they feel about such a popal statement!

And why so?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I also got the impression that the Pope would not be bothered to explain is rationale to the laity after reading the following description of Pope John Paul II's sentiments on the subject.http://www.thetablet.co.uk/articles/6784/

Do you normally judge Catholicism based on what is said about it in a tabloid? I suggest reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church or a Papal Encyclical. I also suggest Christopher West's "Theology of the Body for Beginners". He has it in book form and in audio form. I also suggest "Contraception, Why Not" by Janet P. Smith, PhD which is available in audio format.


Specific Papal writtings that I encourage you to read with an open heart and mind are:

Evangelium Vitae by Pope John Paul II

Theology of the Body by John Paul II

Humanae Vitae by Paul VI

 

[April Angel]

Do you normally judge Catholicism based on what is said about it in a tabloid? I suggest reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church or a Papal Encyclical. I also suggest Christopher West's "Theology of the Body for Beginners". He has it in book form and in audio form. I also suggest "Contraception, Why Not" by Janet P. Smith, PhD which is available in audio format.


Specific Papal writtings that I encourage you to read with an open heart and mind are:

Evangelium Vitae by Pope John Paul II

Theology of the Body by John Paul II

Humanae Vitae by Paul VI

Yes, thank you. I have read all these documents but, unfortunately, they do not answer the concerns of normal people. Hence the *tabloid* article at the beginning of this thread.

The OP of this thread highlights the concerns of the laity over the Church's teachings on the subject of contraception. These concerns and the Pope's reaction to these concerns has been highlighted by the *tabloid* article in the OP. How else would we know what the Pope thinks of the laity's concerns, if not via the media?

The tabloid article which I posted was about a report which was put together by the Catholic laity in England in 1980. They voiced the same concerns which were voiced by the laity in July this year, 18 years later. Nothing has changed. The Pope's encyclicals have still not answered their questions.

 

[April Angel]

This is because he may have thought that God would not care for that little child coming to world because of his parents sin or what? The child that comes to the world in any way is God's chosen and by His will it happened... So i guess forming his won therory was not good enough this time...

Sorry, I do not know what the priest thought about it. But in this present world, with all the abortion that goes on, I think that it is safer to become pregnant within a stable married relationship.

 

[geocajun]

I do think it is good that Pope Benedict XVI has written an encyclical. I was wondering what the latest polls on Catholic views said about birth control, and here is what I found on Zogby, July, 2008:



I found that really surprising. I think that 31% is much higher than what it used to be years ago (of course, I spent my childbearing years in NY, which is a very liberal place.)

And so perhaps Pope John Paul II's and Pope Benedict's encyclicals have affected public opinion among Catholics. But I think 31% is phenomenally high--I would have guessed 10%.

Those are surprising numbers. Who came up with them?

 

[Fantine]

http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1475

I read in our diocesan paper recently that 5% of engaged couples take the diocesan NFP courses. When I combine that with the visual evidence that most people have two children or so, the 31% figure is surprising.

It could even be indicative of a change.

 

[Rochir]

And why so?

European (or German) Catholics and Christians do not count with their views and opinions?

CF - American Catholics count, non else????

 

[MikeK]

European (or German) Catholics and Christians do not count with their views and opinions?

CF - American Catholics count, non else????

Where did he say that? I think you're immagining things. He asked you a simple question.

Now, since you ask whether the oppinions of european catholics "count" as to Papal teachings - well, yes and no. They count in that they are indicitive of the need for better catcesis in Europe. They do absolutely nothing to discount the statements of the Pope, however. All that contracepting European Catholics mean is that sin or ignorance common in European Catholocism just as they are in North American Catholocism, African Catholocism, etc.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Hyacinth, contraception is always sinful. It doesn't matter whether you are married or not. And the point is - the Church says that we should not be having premarital sex. Deciding to have premarital sex, casual or in a committed relationship, is sinful! Slapping a condom on is like sticking a bandaid on a festering wound. It doesn't heal the wound - just patches it up for the time being. The real wound is the reasons that people go around having premarital sex - we need to address the "why" of it rather than looking at the "how". The reasons why people have premarital sex is the issue, not the way they go about having it.

Worried about disease? Pregnancy? Wow - having no sex solves that problem completely! And treating sex like an inevitability doesn't give enough credit to young people - they aren't running around with out of control libidos. It is perfectly possible to be in control fo your libido rather than allowing it to be in control of you. Even if you don't have all these great notions of the importance and beauty of sex, the reality - and it IS a reality - of pregnancy and disease is MORE than enough to encourage a young person to be smart and not engage in sex if they aren't willing to accept the responsibility of it.

 

[April Angel]

Hyacinth, contraception is always sinful. It doesn't matter whether you are married or not. And the point is - the Church says that we should not be having premarital sex. Deciding to have premarital sex, casual or in a committed relationship, is sinful! Slapping a condom on is like sticking a bandaid on a festering wound. It doesn't heal the wound - just patches it up for the time being. The real wound is the reasons that people go around having premarital sex - we need to address the "why" of it rather than looking at the "how". The reasons why people have premarital sex is the issue, not the way they go about having it.

Worried about disease? Pregnancy? Wow - having no sex solves that problem completely! And treating sex like an inevitability doesn't give enough credit to young people - they aren't running around with out of control libidos. It is perfectly possible to be in control fo your libido rather than allowing it to be in control of you. Even if you don't have all these great notions of the importance and beauty of sex, the reality - and it IS a reality - of pregnancy and disease is MORE than enough to encourage a young person to be smart and not engage in sex if they aren't willing to accept the responsibility of it.

This is a wonderful ideal. However, in reality, if a young person does not believe in masturbation and, in fact, if that young person is a virgin with regards to masturbation i.e. they have never masturbated in their life, you may find that such a young person may have developed mental health issues by the age of 24 through no fault of their own.

At the risk of stating the obvious, not everyone has the same level of libido. Some women and men have very high libidos. Such a person who does not agree with masturbation and has never masturbated, is bound to come to a cross-roads sooner or later.

 

[Weird]

European (or German) Catholics and Christians do not count with their views and opinions?

CF - American Catholics count, non else????

Frist germans are europeans , second i asked why so because i didn't feel the OP was only speaking with amrericans... I am not American and i didnt feel i was ignored, that's all...

Where did he say that? I think you're immagining things. He asked you a simple question.

Now, since you ask whether the oppinions of european catholics "count" as to Papal teachings - well, yes and no. They count in that they are indicitive of the need for better catcesis in Europe. They do absolutely nothing to discount the statements of the Pope, however. All that contracepting European Catholics mean is that sin or ignorance common in European Catholocism just as they are in North American Catholocism, African Catholocism, etc.

Weird is missing something... Does the Vatican diffrencuate between catholics around the world?

Thank you.

 

[Gwendolyn]

This is a wonderful ideal. However, in reality, if a young person does not believe in masturbation and, in fact, if that young person is a virgin with regards to masturbation i.e. they have never masturbated in their life, you may find that such a young person may have developed mental health issues by the age of 24 through no fault of their own.

At the risk of stating the obvious, not everyone has the same level of libido. Some women and men have very high libidos. Such a person who does not agree with masturbation and has never masturbated, is bound to come to a cross-roads sooner or later.

I'm trying not to be offended by your comment. Being in control of one's libido rather than allowing it to control you does not equal mental health issues. It is a matter of self-control. Now, hating your sexual urges and demonising them leads to self-esteem issues. But acknowledging that you have a sex drive and learning to direct it isn't a mark of immaturity... it is a mark of maturity. Frankly, it's the healthiest thing I've ever done for myself.

 

[April Angel]

I'm trying not to be offended by your comment. Being in control of one's libido rather than allowing it to control you does not equal mental health issues. It is a matter of self-control. Now, hating your sexual urges and demonising them leads to self-esteem issues. But acknowledging that you have a sex drive and learning to direct it isn't a mark of immaturity... it is a mark of maturity. Frankly, it's the healthiest thing I've ever done for myself.

Direct it where (if you don't mind me asking)?

Sorry, I did not realise that you thought that I was talking about you. The fact of the matter is that, not knowing your situation or how old you are, I was *NOT* talking about you. I was, in fact, talking about my own situation between the ages of 16 and 24.

 

[MikeK]

This is a wonderful ideal. However, in reality, if a young person does not believe in masturbation and, in fact, if that young person is a virgin with regards to masturbation i.e. they have never masturbated in their life, you may find that such a young person may have developed mental health issues by the age of 24 through no fault of their own.

I was unaware that not masturbating causes "mental health issues" to develop. Which specific mental health problems does not masturbating cause?

 

[MikeK]

Weird is missing something... Does the Vatican diffrencuate between catholics around the world?

Nope