Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!

[WisdomTree]

Don't say that you have become an atheist, You were one.
So yeah, Who cares? You can do whatever you want, It's your choice right?
It happened because whether you were an atheist or you had a weak faith, I blame no one but the society you live in.

God bless you.

Dude, he used to be Catholic. He's going through a rough patch so be nice.

 

[Rajni]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Pope John Paul II also made a boatload of statements suggesting a belief in[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the universality of salvation: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Pope John Paul II and Universal Salvation [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'm not sure how to reconcile that with their concept of 'mortal' sin, though –[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'm pretty sure that is still taught, but there you have it.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]-[/FONT]

 

[Kurama]

Yay !! What a good news for all atheists !
Richard Dawkins might be thinking of contributing 1 percent of his "The God Delusion" royalty to "Save the whales fund", just in case ... Isn't this "good" work, too??

The risk of being an atheist is very high. So I don't think that's good news for atheists !!

Thank God! Now I only have 9999 gods and goddesses, condemning me to hell, to worry about!

However if your all merciful God is the only one, and all the others are fake, then I guess I'm fine and I'll see you guys in heaven!

Don't say that you have become an atheist, You were one.
So yeah, Who cares? You can do whatever you want, It's your choice right?
It happened because whether you were an atheist or you had a weak faith, I blame no one but the society you live in.

God bless you.

(To whom it may concern, I would like to make it clear that I am not trying to demean Christianity in any way. I am simply providing my own opinions towards Christian theology).

Your judgement over the belief that I was always an atheist has some fallacy. Here I was a month ago thinking that I would never become an atheist...and here I am now, an unrepentant heathen . I don't think that I've changed much, I simply see atheism as a form of registering reality. The fact of the matter is anything can happen. If Christianity has taught me one thing, it is that we should not judge others. You cannot make false assumptions for who knows what you will be like in 5 years, 10 years, 50 years? Don't think that you'll always remain a lifelong Christian, and even more importantly, don't judge others for apostasy...

Perhaps I can give you a little background towards me becoming a heathen:

If one has doubts about God, meaning that one recognises the possibility that God might not exist, they are an agnostic theist. Let's break it down...

Atheism: Without God
Agnosticism: Without knowledge

Atheism and theism are about belief, while agnosticism and gnosticism are about knowledge. What pulled me towards atheism was the fact that I had a belief in God, but I had no knowledge of God's existence (''I don't know whether God exists but I believe he exists''). By definition I was already an agnostic theist. Afterwards any remaining beliefs I had about God capitulated, I found that my religion had too many logical fallacies and contradictions. Thus one can argue that most Christians have a little bit of atheism within them...you simply need to doubt God a little and you're already in the agnostic camp

Now enough of my heretical rambling, if the Pope decrees that atheists can be saved, then that is a fact. The apostolic successor of Peter has a monopoly on theology, if he says that atheists can be saved then that is the case. Thus I don't see why you should be hostile to my beliefs.

 

[Galilee63]

We are judged by a just God who will welcome us based on what we have done with what we knew.

True Sunrise and the reason all Christians (believers) need to pray regularly for all loved ones and all sinners (fellow sinners) throughout the world including especially Children who are dying and have died, who may not have attended confession, received their last Rites through a Priest, Minister or Pastor, not been Baptized in the Holy Spirit (God's Sacraments), not had parents as Believers of God, not repented being young nor had anyone praying for them.

For every Child, Teenager, young Adult and Adult who are dying or have passed away, every Christian person should be praying for 'all the Holy Souls' in Purgatory and who have died regularly or daily; particularly for those who have not had a believer to pray in the first place within their own Family.

As a relative said of mine dying this year "so many many Lost Souls and no-one seems to have any idea of it".

One of the reasons: lack of repentance to Jesus throughout peoples' lives and of course not having believed nor trusted in Jesus.

These are the Souls my relative saw when crossing over the first time (she was to go through this later on another two occasions with hours to live). Lost being 'Lost to God'. Not Lost floating around Lost. This upset her greatly to see this. She agreed to have confession and be given her last Rites with God through a Priest thereafter.

Through my relationship with Jesus, after opening up my Heart to Him in recent years, remorse for every sin committed is essential, praying and asking God 'to CALL to MIND and HEART my sins' weekly before confessing through my Priest. Praying to Jesus to open up my Heart through regular Fasting and daily prayer before confession so that one feels genuine remorse for all sins.

This is now my life and experience with Jesus and I thank Him for showing me through Our Lady Mary the 'right' way to being genuinely remorseful and confessing the stains on my Soul that He wipes clean through Confession.

I pray for all other Souls and focussing on Children now in my prayers daily and their Parents around the World that they will be firm loving guiding Parents through Jesus and take their Children along to Confession and cut out every bit of junk including television and play station games where satan evil uses these tools and mediums to stain kids' Souls and hearts.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

 

[smaneck]

Cardinal Ratzinger sort of undid all that.

Dominus Iesus

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Pope John Paul II also made a boatload of statements suggesting a belief in[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]the universality of salvation: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Pope John Paul II and Universal Salvation [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'm not sure how to reconcile that with their concept of 'mortal' sin, though –[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'm pretty sure that is still taught, but there you have it.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]-[/FONT]

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think what happens is this: Official Roman Catholic teaching can be pretty nuanced and is often worded rather precisely, particularly in official documents. Individual popes say something, and really it's just repeating what is already laid out in the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, but it comes across as something else by the general public who may be a bit less well versed in the intricacies of Roman Catholic doctrine and dogma.

In Roman Catholic teaching salvation can only be found in Jesus, and yes, only found in the Catholic Church. That is official teaching; but that teaching also says that there are those who by "invincible ignorance" are Christian though they do not know it; because damnation by knowing rejection of the Gospel and Christ's Church means just that--a knowing rejection. Thus there are many who have rejected the Gospel and Christ's Church but that rejection is, effectively, a false image rather than the actual thing itself, and thus being invincibly ignorant of the real thing itself cannot be held accountable for that rejection and/or ignorance. Therefore God's judgment is made accordingly, not to keep people out of His kingdom who truly wish to be part of it, but on the contrary.

That is, at least, my understanding; and I am admittedly as much an outsider without a fully nuanced view as the next guy.

In this sense the remarks made by, e.g., Pope Francis are not really all that "radical" as they are hardly a departure from what already exists as precedent through the definitions of Roman Catholic religion already in place; they just seem that way usually because the average Joe probably hasn't read Dominus Iesus (I haven't, at least not completely) and other vital documents that outline this nuanced understanding.

If Francis were to say that salvation can happen outside of or without Christ and/or outside of the Church, Francis wouldn't simply be disagreeing with mainstream Roman Catholic opinion, but entertaining heresy (as the RCC would see it).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[smaneck]

In general I think you are right about this but it sure seemed to me that Dominus Iesus undid a lot that Vatican II had accomplished.
When Pope Benedict resigned I was hoping beyond Pope for another Pope John. I was not disappointed by the church's choice however. A thrill went through me the moment the name Francis was announced.

I think what happens is this: Official Roman Catholic teaching can be pretty nuanced and is often worded rather precisely, particularly in official documents. Individual popes say something, and really it's just repeating what is already laid out in the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, but it comes across as something else by the general public who may be a bit less well versed in the intricacies of Roman Catholic doctrine and dogma.

In Roman Catholic teaching salvation can only be found in Jesus, and yes, only found in the Catholic Church. That is official teaching; but that teaching also says that there are those who by "invincible ignorance" are Christian though they do not know it; because damnation by knowing rejection of the Gospel and Christ's Church means just that--a knowing rejection. Thus there are many who have rejected the Gospel and Christ's Church but that rejection is, effectively, a false image rather than the actual thing itself, and thus being invincibly ignorant of the real thing itself cannot be held accountable for that rejection and/or ignorance. Therefore God's judgment is made accordingly, not to keep people out of His kingdom who truly wish to be part of it, but on the contrary.

That is, at least, my understanding; and I am admittedly as much an outsider without a fully nuanced view as the next guy.

In this sense the remarks made by, e.g., Pope Francis are not really all that "radical" as they are hardly a departure from what already exists as precedent through the definitions of Roman Catholic religion already in place; they just seem that way usually because the average Joe probably hasn't read Dominus Iesus (I haven't, at least not completely) and other vital documents that outline this nuanced understanding.

If Francis were to say that salvation can happen outside of or without Christ and/or outside of the Church, Francis wouldn't simply be disagreeing with mainstream Roman Catholic opinion, but entertaining heresy (as the RCC would see it).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Some folks make God out to be the great enemy of humanity. An egotistical earthly sovereign writ large with extra power. A being who suffers from human weaknesses like rage and jealousy. One who would smile and send people to eternal torment because they didn't find the right religion in the confusing mess known as the world. I think they are confusing God the Father with Samael or some mythological devil figure.