Pope Francis Meets With U.S. LGBT Group New Ways Ministry Previously Denounced by Vatican

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,664
56,279
Woods
✟4,677,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
None of the Holy Father’s comments in the meeting were reported in the organization’s statement.

Pope Francis met Tuesday at his residence with leadership from the U.S. LGBT organization New Ways Ministry, which was previously denounced by both the U.S. bishops’ conference and the Vatican’s doctrinal office for causing confusion on sexual morality among the Catholic faithful.

It’s unclear what the topic of the meeting was, but the organization said in an Oct. 17 statementthat it lasted 50 minutes and its controversial co-founder, Sister of Loretto Jeannine Gramick, thanked the Holy Father for “his openness to blessing same-sex unions, as well as for his opposition to the criminalization of LGBTQ+ people in civil society.”

None of the Holy Father’s comments in the meeting were reported in the organization’s statement. CNA asked the organization what was discussed in the meeting but did not receive a response before publication.

New Ways Ministry was founded in 1977 in the Archdiocese of Washington by Sister Gramick and Father Robert Nugent, who were both “permanently prohibited from any pastoral work involving homosexual persons” after an investigation into their work, the Vatican’s doctrinal office ruled in a 1999 notification.

Continued below.
 

fide

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2012
1,182
574
✟127,776.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The people of the ministry and the nun who support it need to repent.
And Jesus, we note from Scripture, did not keep secret what He said to the woman caught in her adultery: "Neither do I condemn you; go, and sin no more" (Jn 8:11). If he is intending to follow the mercy of Jesus in the ways of Jesus, so also the Pope should have said to her and the others, in a way that all the Church and the world would hear, a call to repentance. Duplicity is the way of the evil one.
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,664
56,279
Woods
✟4,677,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No, Pope Francis has not actually said that the Church can offer blessings for same-sex unions. He has not said that. But at this late date, can anyone still doubt that’s what he thinks—and that it is only a matter of time until he makes it official?

Continued below.
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,664
56,279
Woods
✟4,677,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,664
56,279
Woods
✟4,677,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
ROME – Archbishop Zbigņev Stankevičs of Riga, Latvia, a participant in this month’s Synod of Bishops on Synodality, has said homosexuals are called to live in chastity in accord with Church teaching, but credited Pope Francis for what he called his own “personal conversion” on the issue, becoming less judgmental.

The remarks came just a day after Pope Francis met with longtime LGBTQ+ advocate, American Sister Jeannine Gramick, founder of the New Ways Ministry, at the Vatican.

Continued below.
 
Upvote 0

mourningdove~

"Pray, and prepare ..."
Site Supporter
Dec 24, 2005
8,817
2,180
✟440,416.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
  • Agree
Reactions: Chrystal-J
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Angels Team
Feb 10, 2013
14,539
8,402
28
Nebraska
✟243,545.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
And Jesus, we note from Scripture, did not keep secret what He said to the woman caught in her adultery: "Neither do I condemn you; go, and sin no more" (Jn 8:11). If he is intending to follow the mercy of Jesus in the ways of Jesus, so also the Pope should have said to her and the others, in a way that all the Church and the world would hear, a call to repentance. Duplicity is the way of the evil one.
Repentance is the only way to heaven.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,324
16,158
Flyoverland
✟1,238,752.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
No, Pope Francis has not actually said that the Church can offer blessings for same-sex unions. He has not said that. But at this late date, can anyone still doubt that’s what he thinks—and that it is only a matter of time until he makes it official?

Continued below.
How do they popesplain this meeting? I couldn’t imagine how.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,324
16,158
Flyoverland
✟1,238,752.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
... meanwhile, they continue to shut down Latin Masses in America.
:cry:
Because that is such a danger to the Church. If only they could be squashed out of existence everything would be good.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,664
56,279
Woods
✟4,677,927.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Because that is such a danger to the Church. If only they could be squashed out of existence everything would be good.
We all need to be indoctrinated on the same page. Then we can process to this new nirvana.
 
Upvote 0

mourningdove~

"Pray, and prepare ..."
Site Supporter
Dec 24, 2005
8,817
2,180
✟440,416.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Because that is such a danger to the Church. If only they could be squashed out of existence everything would be good.

I think it's fair to assume that members of the new Synodal Catholic Church believe that to be true.

Fortunately for them, one day those of us who remember the Pre-Vatican II Catholic Church will be gone, one way or another.
And so, memories of it will continue to fade away ... and become less and less of a challenge to the new church.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,324
16,158
Flyoverland
✟1,238,752.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
I think it's fair to assume that members of the new Synodal Catholic Church believe that to be true.

Fortunately for them, one day those of us who remember the Pre-Vatican II Catholic Church will be gone, one way or another.
And so, memories of it will continue to fade away ... and become less and less of a challenge to the new church.
I don't think we should be so hasty to say the 'New Church' (TM) is born yet out of 'synodality that finally realized the vision of the 'spirit' of Vatican II. Nor that the Church of the ages is dead and buried. In fact at the synod there appear to be a sizable contingent of folks that do not agree with the aims of the synod to remake the Church. And they are vocal - a sign of the work of the Holy Spirit even on the synod floor. In other words, the Church still may be the property of Jesus Christ.

In my memory the aftermath of Vatican II was a silly and stupid season that went on until pope John Paul II pulled it back from the brink. It's a rip-roaring mess now but it was a rip-roaring mess back then too.
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: mourningdove~
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mourningdove~

"Pray, and prepare ..."
Site Supporter
Dec 24, 2005
8,817
2,180
✟440,416.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't think we should be so hasty to say the 'New Church' (TM) is born yet out of 'synodality that finally realized the vision of the 'spirit' of Vatican II. Nor that the Church of the ages is dead and buried. In fact at the synod there appear to be a sizable contingent of folks that do not agree with the aims of the synod to remake the Church. And they are vocal - a sign of the work of the Holy Spirit even on the synod floor. In other words, the Church still may be the property of Jesus Christ.

Interesting ... and I hope you are right. :blush:

America has its problems, the Church has hers ...
but both America and the Church, as we have known them, stand in the way of the evil planned for this world.
I hope they both will continue to stand.
 
Upvote 0

jamiec

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2020
480
217
Scotland
✟42,593.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
None of the Holy Father’s comments in the meeting were reported in the organization’s statement.

Pope Francis met Tuesday at his residence with leadership from the U.S. LGBT organization New Ways Ministry, which was previously denounced by both the U.S. bishops’ conference and the Vatican’s doctrinal office for causing confusion on sexual morality among the Catholic faithful.

It’s unclear what the topic of the meeting was, but the organization said in an Oct. 17 statementthat it lasted 50 minutes and its controversial co-founder, Sister of Loretto Jeannine Gramick, thanked the Holy Father for “his openness to blessing same-sex unions, as well as for his opposition to the criminalization of LGBTQ+ people in civil society.”

None of the Holy Father’s comments in the meeting were reported in the organization’s statement. CNA asked the organization what was discussed in the meeting but did not receive a response before publication.

New Ways Ministry was founded in 1977 in the Archdiocese of Washington by Sister Gramick and Father Robert Nugent, who were both “permanently prohibited from any pastoral work involving homosexual persons” after an investigation into their work, the Vatican’s doctrinal office ruled in a 1999 notification.

Continued below.
"thanked the Holy Father for “his openness to blessing same-sex unions""

If that is so, the 1986 Letter of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - as it used to be called - is about to be turned on its head. Full text here: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...faith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

And there is the 2021 Response of the same Congregation, explaining why same-sex unions cannot be blessed:

Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to a dubium regarding the blessing of the unions of persons of the same sex

TO THE QUESTION PROPOSED:

Does the Church have the power to give the blessing to unions of persons of the same sex?

RESPONSE:
Negative.


Full text in English: Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to a dubium regarding the blessing of the unions of persons of the same sex

That is the short answer; so the Pope's alleged "openness" is either a misperception, by his hearers, of his true position; or, if it is not a misperception, he is allegedly "open" to allowing the Church to do what the Church has no power to do. If the Church can reverse its teaching in 1986 and 2021, to teach the opposite in 2023 or later, what is to stop other, currently "unchangeable". doctrines also being reversed ? "The words of this wizard stand on their head".
 
Upvote 0

jamiec

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2020
480
217
Scotland
✟42,593.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
No, Pope Francis has not actually said that the Church can offer blessings for same-sex unions. He has not said that. But at this late date, can anyone still doubt that’s what he thinks—and that it is only a matter of time until he makes it official?

Continued below.
PF is too crafty to say anything so precise that he can be convicted of heresy. He always manages to keep just on the right side of orthodoxy.

But his actions, and inactions, and his refusal to support orthodox Catholicism, show plainly enough where his intentions and sympathies lie.
 
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Angels Team
Feb 10, 2013
14,539
8,402
28
Nebraska
✟243,545.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Interesting ... and I hope you are right. :blush:

America has its problems, the Church has hers ...
but both America and the Church, as we have known them, stand in the way of the evil planned for this world.
I hope they both will continue to stand.
Jesus promised the Church will endure forever. America will not.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,324
16,158
Flyoverland
✟1,238,752.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
"thanked the Holy Father for “his openness to blessing same-sex unions""

If that is so, the 1986 Letter of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - as it used to be called - is about to be turned on its head. Full text here: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...faith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

And there is the 2021 Response of the same Congregation, explaining why same-sex unions cannot be blessed:

Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to a dubium regarding the blessing of the unions of persons of the same sex

TO THE QUESTION PROPOSED:

Does the Church have the power to give the blessing to unions of persons of the same sex?

RESPONSE:
Negative.


Full text in English: Responsum of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to a dubium regarding the blessing of the unions of persons of the same sex

That is the short answer; so the Pope's alleged "openness" is either a misperception, by his hearers, of his true position; or, if it is not a misperception, he is allegedly "open" to allowing the Church to do what the Church has no power to do. If the Church can reverse its teaching in 1986 and 2021, to teach the opposite in 2023 or later, what is to stop other, currently "unchangeable". doctrines also being reversed ? "The words of this wizard stand on their head".
Wondering if your opinion expressed here is updated based on the last two weeks?
 
Upvote 0