Pope Francis: "It is the communists who think like Christians."

[Eryk]

Well said, comrade.

You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?
“It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians. Christ spoke of a society where the poor, the weak and the marginalized have the right to decide. Not demagogues, not Barabbas, but the people, the poor, whether they have faith in a transcendent God or not. It is they who must help to achieve equality and freedom".

http://www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2016/11/11/news/pope_francis_trump-151810120/

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well said, comrade.

You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?
“It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians. Christ spoke of a society where the poor, the weak and the marginalized have the right to decide. Not demagogues, not Barabbas, but the people, the poor, whether they have faith in a transcendent God or not. It is they who must help to achieve equality and freedom".

http://www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2016/11/11/news/pope_francis_trump-151810120/

What??? That's kind of a socially sloppy thing for Francis to say. Communism has very little in the way of commonality with the ideal of Christian love and altruistic sharing, especially if we compare the social ideals of Jesus and the early Church with the ways in which Marx and Engels conceived of Communism.

2PhiloVoid

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Well said, comrade.

You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?
“It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians. Christ spoke of a society where the poor, the weak and the marginalized have the right to decide. Not demagogues, not Barabbas, but the people, the poor, whether they have faith in a transcendent God or not. It is they who must help to achieve equality and freedom".

http://www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2016/11/11/news/pope_francis_trump-151810120/

149,469,610 people would disagree with the pope on that one. Well. . . if they hadn't been brutally killed by communists, that is.

 

[MrSpikey]

What??? That's kind of a socially sloppy thing for Francis to say. Communism has very little in the way of commonality with the ideal of Christian love and altruistic sharing, especially if we compare the social ideals of Jesus and the early Church with the ways in which Marx and Engels conceived of Communism.

You're forgetting all the blatant evidence for Jesus supporting free market capitalism.

That should put an end to it one way or another...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You're forgetting all the blatant evidence for Jesus supporting free market capitalism.

That should put an end to it one way or another...

I'll take the social economic view of Daniel M. Bell Jr. on this subject. Sure, we can use a few Marxist critiques to bat against some of the obvious pitfalls seen in free market Capitalism, but this by no stretch of the imagination equates to mean that Christians should harbor sympathies for Communism, or that Christianity is 'like' Communism.

Communism stinks!

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Reference​

Bell, Daniel M., Jr. (2012). The economy of desire: Christianity and Capitalism in a postmodern world. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic.

 

[Tallguy88]

Marxist Communism is infallibly condemned as incompatible with Christianity by Pope Leo in Rerum Novarum. Pope Francis cannot revoke that condemnation. My guess is that he was referring to how Communists claim to care for the poor. Good intentions and such. But Marxist Communism itself is not compatible with Christianity.

 

[JackRT]

The late Archbishop Dom Helder Camara (of Recife Brazil): "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."

 

[Tallguy88]

The late Archbishop Dom Helder Camara (of Recife Brazil): "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist."

That's a criticism of Capitalism, not a praise of Communism.

 

[Crusader05]

Disappointing but not surprising. I remember when we had a pope who identified communism as the evil it is and fought against it. This pope is seriously misguided.

 

[TurtleAnne]

I don't think it really matters what type of government a nation has. Humans are imperfect, and some of the most corrupt and power hungry humans that exist always seem to wind up working their way into government. Almost any political ideology can be made to sound great in theory, of course. But seems that across history and the globe, no matter the type of government, economic or political ideology, inevitably some really corrupt people wind up directly or vicariously ruling over everybody.

 

[Michie]

That's a criticism of Capitalism, not a praise of Communism.

We had a discussion on OBOB where this has been disproven.

 

[Tinyarch]

I don't think it really matters what type of government a nation has.

You lost me after your first sentence.
Let's just take a minute to contemplate the many governments that have existed and then listen to the millions of people murdered by the governments that controlled them. Hmmm...does it really matter?
Help me out, cause perhaps my grasp of history is a bit shaky. smh

 

[Rion]

Not surprising. South American churches have been heavily influenced with communist/marxist theory, just as North American churches have been influenced by capitalism.

 

[Icewater]

I don't think it really matters what type of government a nation has. Humans are imperfect, and some of the most corrupt and power hungry humans that exist always seem to wind up working their way into government. Almost any political ideology can be made to sound great in theory, of course. But seems that across history and the globe, no matter the type of government, economic or political ideology, inevitably some really corrupt people wind up directly or vicariously ruling over everybody.

If that were true, shouldn't we expect to see basically the same levels of corruption and other types of government malfeasance across the entire world?

 

[mindlight]

Not surprising. South American churches have been heavily influenced with communist/marxist theory, just as North American churches have been influenced by capitalism.

In South America Communism has the false romanticism of Che Guevara and the heresy of liberation theology to draw on. But they never really implemented it - they just thought that being equal and looking after the poor might be a good thing. The pope would have benefitted from a trip to Eastern Europe just after the wall came down. It was shabby beyond belief and the people had next to nothing compared to their western neighbours. In Cuba where it was implemented in Castros image standards of living are far lower than in other South American countries. The pope is showing his own cultural biases on this one.

The fruits of communism in the old Soviet empire and Maoist China were poverty, oppression (130-149m dead), extreme godless antiChristianity, militarism, a society of deceit where everyone spied on their neighbours, massively high levels of abortion and divorce. - NO JESUS WAS NOT A COMMUNIST!!!!!

 

[mindlight]

Disappointing but not surprising. I remember when we had a pope who identified communism as the evil it is and fought against it. This pope is seriously misguided.

This pope says a lot of good things so cannot agree with the last sentence but agree he is deeply wrong on communism.

 

[stamperben]

This Pope said what I've found to be true.

 

[timewerx]

The Pope is not entirely wrong though.

I have a Polish friend who used to be a communist (Poland used to be communist).

He told that life was easier during the communist era. When communism ended, poverty became worse and many people became overcome by greed.

He didn't liked what happened, the situation overall became worse so he decided to immigrate to New Zealand. Ironically, New Zealand's welfare system is nearly socialist that you can live decently even if you never work!

I've lived in New Zealand for sometime, that's how I met my communist friend. The quasi-socialist welfare system of New Zealand have huge positive effect on its people. The virtual absence of homeless and street beggars for example. Small local business are thriving, and very little financial pressure, earned them a high spot in quality of life.

Turning the jobless into consumers by the generous welfare system of New Zealand had a very good effect on the resilience of its economy. It also reduced the income gap between the rich and poor which is another good thing.

 

[Armoured]

What??? That's kind of a socially sloppy thing for Francis to say. Communism has very little in the way of commonality with the ideal of Christian love and altruistic sharing, especially if we compare the social ideals of Jesus and the early Church with the ways in which Marx and Engels conceived of Communism.

2PhiloVoid

...Such as?

 

[Armoured]

Well said, comrade.

You told me some time ago that the precept, “Love your neighbour as thyself” had to change, given the dark times that we are going through, and become “more than thyself.” So you yearn for a society where equality dominates. This, as you know, is the programme of Marxist socialism and then of communism. Are you therefore thinking of a Marxist type of society?
“It it has been said many times and my response has always been that, if anything, it is the communists who think like Christians. Christ spoke of a society where the poor, the weak and the marginalized have the right to decide. Not demagogues, not Barabbas, but the people, the poor, whether they have faith in a transcendent God or not. It is they who must help to achieve equality and freedom".

Pope Francis: "Trump? I do not judge. I care only if he makes the poor suffer"

And, shockingly, Americans flip out. Communism = generic epithet FTW.