Pope: Condoms Can Be Justified in Some Cases

[Davidnic]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7451655-7/#post54356007
Did Augustine retraction concerning Peter and the Rock?

I really try to stay away from GT, it is bad for the soul and any real ecumenicism focused on understanding. Too many there want to be right and not speak to each other in Charity. My time as admin there was more then enough for me.

But I did read through the thread and the Catholics there gave good answers. What Augustine said in no way contradicts Church teaching, a venerable Bede himself pointed out.

Personally I am not a huge fan of Augustine and there are things he believed that the Church does not and many that we do. It is the totality of the ECF's that guide us when we look back and the teachings that are constant.

Augustine is great but not perfect. There is a difference when an ECF is speaking on Tradition (cap T) and acting as a theologian interpreting things. And just like modern theologians there can be error even in the best. This is why we have a Magisterium.

 

[RhetorTheo]

I've been away for many years but the story about the Pope and condoms made me wonder what's up at CF OBOB. Sad to see that so few of the old timers are still here, but glad to see that the forum lives on.

May God bless you and grant you many years, one and all!

 

[SolomonVII]

I didn't say that you said that - I asked you a question.

I think she was just giving you a little sisterly nudge, a little kick in the shins under the table sort of thing, to use some common sense before asking questions like that.
Not too many of you gals think that rape is a good thing. epiclesis is in all probability therefore not saying that it is either.
To the extent that you focused on the least probable interpretation of what she was saying, i'd say her little sarcastic elbow jab in your ribs was the appropriate response.

 

[SolomonVII]

I've been away for many years but the story about the Pope and condoms made me wonder what's up at CF OBOB. Sad to see that so few of the old timers are still here, but glad to see that the forum lives on.

May God bless you and grant you many years, one and all!

People come and go, and go, and come and a few have even become sick and died.

But like always the pope and sexuality is a hot topic.

 

[fated]

I came back just because of this incident. The situation is very simple, the use of a condom is... something that one, such as a priest, can advise, when leading a grave sinner 'out of the darkness.' This is not the Church passing out condoms.

Further, although this is presumptuous, I imagine that an actual priest or bishop has come across the incredibly difficult situation of a man and wife seeking confession or other sacrament, and one has AIDS. When they 'fail to protect themselves' perfectly, they use a condom... this would explain the L'OR breaking the embargo, at least.

The previous statement on such a case, which was probably being used, stated something similar, I think it was made by the bishop that heads Opus Dei.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I came back just because of this incident. The situation is very simple, the use of a condom is... something that one, such as a priest, can advise, when leading a grave sinner 'out of the darkness.' This is not the Church passing out condoms.

Further, although this is presumptuous, I imagine that an actual priest or bishop has come across the incredibly difficult situation of a man and wife seeking confession or other sacrament, and one has AIDS. When they 'fail to protect themselves' perfectly, they use a condom... this would explain the L'OR breaking the embargo, at least.

The previous statement on such a case, which was probably being used, stated something similar, I think it was made by the bishop that heads Opus Dei.

The use of a condom is still an evil. No way around it.

Sounds like people want to choose lesser evils but they are choosing evil none the less. That is NOT what a Christian sets out to do. A Christian submits themself to God and their brethren before themself. Being Christian is never selfish or evil and these are avoided by us (not excused).

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Does anyone really think that a male prostitute cares what the Pope and the Church teaches about the use of condoms being
an immoral means of birth control?


The media is off and flying with this as if this is the first step in the Church allowing artificial birth control.

Its not the case at all.

Jim

 

[fated]

The use of a condom is still an evil. No way around it.

Sounds like people want to choose lesser evils but they are choosing evil none the less. That is NOT what a Christian sets out to do. A Christian submits themself to God and their brethren before themself. Being Christian is never selfish or evil and these are avoided by us (not excused).

Yes, but I'm trying a new gentler approach. Here, I'm expressing that I acknowledge that married people, one with AIDS, while understanding that having sex is deadly, will in some cases, sometimes fail to protect each other from AIDS.

 

[benedictaoo]

It doesn't matter that he doesn't care.

The pope was just recognizing that the prostitute is beginning to think outside himself. that's all.

 

[BanoffeePies]

Great news for the Catholic church.

Never understood what was so "evil" about condoms in the first place.....

 

[fated]

They help modern society turn sexuality from a form of expression into a sort of drug, not unlike heroine.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Remember, that this is the Pope's PERSONAL comments from his own book with his personal views and ponderings. This book is not some ex-cathedra statement.

The Pope agreed that a condom might be okay when it comes to the issues of 2 sodomites having sex with regards to prostitution. There is no procreative aspect going on.

However since this is just the Pope's opinion and not a defined dogma I think we should mostly leave it at that. I agree with him on the issue, but in other parts it seems difficult because I thought the Church was against the lesser of 2 evils mindset..

 

[BanoffeePies]

They help modern society turn sexuality from a form of expression into a sort of drug, not unlike heroine.

Why would a simple bit of plastic do that ? Talk about being dramatic.

 

[fated]

He did clarify as an aside that it did not matter if it did happen to prevent pregnancy as well, if I am not mistaken. The thing that matters is that the sinner is awakening by trying to prevent harm to another, however imperfectly. He did not say the use of the condom was a right thing to do, but better, by not killing or attacking the health of the other. Please remember that he didn't say that people should perform safe sex. This is for the most part a method by which, priests, for instance, can lead people to a holy life, by getting them to move in a caring direction. A direction that cares for human life.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It doesn't matter that he doesn't care.

The pope was just recognizing that the prostitute is beginning to think outside himself. that's all.

Huh
How come the one in Revelation is a "her"

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4204&t=KJV

1) a woman who sells her body for sexual uses a) a prostitute, a harlot, one who yields herself to defilement for the sake of gain b) any woman indulging in unlawful sexual intercourse, whether for gain or for lust


Revelation 17:1 And came One out of the seven Messengers, of the ones having the seven bowls and he speaks with me saying to me "Hither thou! I shall be showing to thee the judgement of the great Prostitute/pornhV <4204>, the one sitting upon the many waters"

Reve 19:2 That true and just the judgings of Him,
that He judges the great Prostitute/pornhn <4204>, who-any blights/efqeiren <5351> (5707) the Land in the prostitution/porneia <4202 of Her...............

 

[AMDG]

Huh
How come the one in Revelation is a "her"

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4204&t=KJV

1) a woman who sells her body for sexual uses a) a prostitute, a harlot, one who yields herself to defilement for the sake of gain b) any woman indulging in unlawful sexual intercourse, whether for gain or for lust


Revelation 17:1 And came One out of the seven Messengers, of the ones having the seven bowls and he speaks with me saying to me "Hither thou! I shall be showing to thee the judgement of the great Prostitute/pornhV <4204>, the one sitting upon the many waters"

Reve 19:2 That true and just the judgings of Him,
that He judges the great Prostitute/pornhn <4204>, who-any blights/efqeiren <5351> (5707) the Land in the prostitution/porneia <4202 of Her...............

Maybe so, but as I understand, the Pope was speaking about a male prostitute.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Huh
How come the one in Revelation is a "her"

That doesn't have anything to do with anything. There are male prostitutes and female prostitutes in real life. The Pope was referring specifically to a male prostitute (you can easily specify this in German) with a male, um, "clientele."

 

[Virgil the Roman]

YouTube - The Pope in the News!!

That is better.

 

[JoabAnias]

YouTube - The Pope in the News!!

That is better.

Ya, Pope Micheal is correct.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Great news for the Catholic church.

Never understood what was so "evil" about condoms in the first place.....

Contraception is an intrinsic evil. It interferes with and frustrates God's plan for Man and Wife. Your lack of understanding why it is wrong, does not negate, its sinfulness.

Remember, every Protestant denomination until 1930 believed along with the Holy Roman Catholic Church, that Contraception was morally wrong and sinful.

Only with the initial permission of the Church of England in some cases, did the the Landslide of permitting Contraception to all begin; ignoring the previous stance, that contraception was sinful, is all that any and all Prots are doing today: ignoring a sin, that hasn't ceased to be a sin.