Pope accuses Sex abuse victims with slander?

[Michie]

From Zenit-

Pope in Temuco: You Cannot Assert Yourself by Destroying Others – ZENIT – English

 

[Michie]

More from Zenit:

Chile: The Pope Is “Truly Close to Victims” of Sexual Abuse,” Says Father Zollner – ZENIT – English

 

[Michie]

I guess later this evening or tomorrow would be the time to find something from a Catholic source that directly addresses this. But the first Crux article made it seem it was a word of mouth thing where a reporter overheard something, etc. We'll see...

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I pose this as a question. Various stories from various news sources are running with it.

What say ye?

WOW

Actually, not that surprised.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Look, the fact is your OP has no source. My statement stands. Trash the pope if you want. It’s irresponsible.

I am reporting current news. Are you stating the abuse victims are lying? The courts saw it differently.
They said the victims were lying in Boston until the number grew to so many thaat it forced the disgraced cardinal law to flee the city to Rome.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

why do you think this?
he has always been careless with words
why do you think he would come to understand this now?

One would hope a leader would craft his words carefully.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

WOW

Actually, not that surprised.

LOL. Face value huh?

 

[AvilaSurfer]

I am reporting current news. Are you stating the abuse victims are lying? The courts saw it differently.
They said the victims were lying in Boston until the number grew to so many thaat it forced the disgraced cardinal law to flee the city to Rome.

I’m stating exactly what I said. It’s not difficult to understand. Maybe if you read it slowly. I have no patience for unsubstantiated or deliberately deceptive “news.”

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

The pope’s remarks drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke from victims and their advocates. They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011. A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.

“As if I could have taken a selfie or a photo while Karadima abused me and others and Juan Barros stood by watching it all,” tweeted Barros’ most vocal accuser, Juan Carlos Cruz. “These people are truly crazy, and the pontiff talks about atonement to the victims. Nothing has changed, and his plea for forgiveness is empty.”

The Karadima scandal dominated Francis’ visit to Chile and the overall issue of sex abuse and church cover-up was likely to factor into his three-day trip to Peru that began late Thursday.

Karadima’s victims reported to church authorities as early as 2002 that he would kiss and fondle them in the swank Santiago parish he ran, but officials refused to believe them. Only when the victims went public with their accusations in 2010 did the Vatican launch an investigation that led to Karadima being removed from ministry.

The emeritus archbishop of Santiago subsequently apologized for having refused to believe the victims from the start.

Francis reopened the wounds of the scandal in 2015 when he named Barros, a protege of Karadima, as bishop of the southern diocese of Osorno. Karadima’s victims say Barros knew of the abuse, having seen it, but did nothing. Barros has denied the allegations.

Francis had defended the appointment before, calling the Osorno controversy “stupid” and the result of a campaign mounted by leftists. But The Associated Press reported last week that the Vatican was so worried about the fallout from the Karadima affair that it was prepared in 2014 to ask Barros and two other Karadima-trained bishops to resign and go on a yearlong sabbatical.

According to a Jan. 31, 2015, letter obtained by AP from Francis to the executive committee of the Chilean bishops’ conference, the plan fell apart and Barros was sent to Osorno.

Pope shocks Chile by accusing sex abuse victims of slander

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I’m stating exactly what I said. It’s not difficult to understand. Maybe if you read it slowly. I have no patience for unsubstantiated or deliberately deceptive “news.”

The church said the claims in Boston were not substantiated until the courts intervened.
Do you feel the victims were lying? More than one states the Bishop was present.

 

[Halbhh]

More from Crux.
Controversial bishops in Chile deny sex abuse cover-up

Well, this was more informative, and it's not hard to imagine all 3 sides are at least partly correct, except when they go too far in ascribing motives to other sides.

Another thought: secular people reasonably want justice, and don't know that perfect Justice will happen, is inevitable, after this mortal life, so they want justice now, of course. And since sex crimes are criminal usually, it's usually the case, at least here where I live, that sex crimes can be prosecuted by the secular judicial system, and that's the way to satisfy the secular desire for justice now, and is no real threat to Christians, because a convicted offender, regardless of whether he is clergy, can repent and can preach in prison, just like Peter, Paul, and other apostles did. Just like them.

A real believer should not fear prison, not even a bit.

I did notice one other salient part though. When the bishops said that they hadn't seen sex crimes (which is plausible to me, though I won't presume to guess one way or the other)...then they should on the other hand have definitely noticed this part:

Although there were aspects of Karadima’s behavior – he was increasingly obsessed with money, displayed authoritarian, even cruel, tendencies, and latterly became foul-mouthed – both bishops are emphatic that they never saw sexual abuse, let alone covered it up.

These wrongs in this paragraph are entirely unacceptable in a pastor, and should have resulted in serious intervention, perhaps a required retreat, to lead to repentance and return to Christ's path. And I have the concern of whether it can be that priests are held up as being more holy than they can be, as if they can do wrong, from the attitude of the lay people.

Not only a bishop from above, but also the parishioners from below should not allow such, and it should be that they would themselves demand change.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

LOL. Face value huh?

Experience.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

It’s nice to know that Catholic bashing is alive and well in OBOB.

 

[Gnarwhal]

It’s nice to know that Catholic bashing is alive and well in OBOB.

Funny how non-Catholics waltz in here and get away with that nowadays. Didn't used to be the case, or at least it seems like it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

A real believer should not fear prison, not even a bit.

It's not so much the prison/imprisonment, but the prisoners they need to fear...even they don't like this type thing, and as I understand it, they have their own form of justice.

 

[Halbhh]

From Zenit-

Pope in Temuco: You Cannot Assert Yourself by Destroying Others – ZENIT – English

This was yet another impressive and wonderful message from Francis, who is worth hearing over and over it seems.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

It’s nice to know that Catholic bashing is alive and well in OBOB.

If someone has experienced being molested by a steward of the Catholic Church, or even knows someone close to them who has been molested by a priest - is that bashing Catholics?

If someone has experienced being molested by a priest, or knows someone close to them who has been molested by a priest, and has also seen the act swept under the rug when they told someone (like they are supposed to do) - is that bashing Catholics?

Remember, we are talking about children for the majority of these cases (i.e. no real power to say "no" against an adult human.)

As far as a conspiracy to implicate the Catholic church in unfounded, unwarranted accusations of abuse: take that problem up with the plethora of evidence that is against the institution and its way of handling abuse within the church. We are not stupid; this stuff happens very often, and is often kept secret either by zealotry, Church incredulity, or downright lies. It has been a culture of the Church kept secret by its leaders, and [un]consciously preserved by the some in the body.

Convicted soul: A priest-perpetrator of child sexual abuse shares his story

Catholic Church sex abuse cases by country - Wikipedia

And, there is a culture of making the victim(s) feel like they are stupid, or doing something wrong.

The Catholic church must stop blaming victims: children cannot consent to sex | Dino Nocivelli

Italian priest draws fire after victim-blaming rape survivor

Catholic Church claimed child sex abuse victims ‘consented’


Now, am I of the lot that separates criticism of the individuals, and of institutions. The Catholic Church is an institution whose stewards are besmirching the perceived character of the institution. The Catholic individual is one I judge based on what they show as substance. With that said, I am judging the pope's actions based on the sum of [academic] information from the past and in the contemporary. There is a history of doing exactly what the pope did. And, this could actually be one of few cases in which it is something more to the story. However, their definitive and deep history does not afford the institution the benefit of the doubt.

Just think about this for a minute: if the Catholics were Black or Latino Americans, and there was only a fraction of demonstrative proof linking them to these type of accusations, the Church would be considered a den of animals and vile creatures who couldn't help but to be who they were. There would be no pit deep enough to store the lot of them by the justice system, and no death deemed too harsh.

I am not so ignorant or prejudiced to do as is usually done - be quick to call someone an "[insert 'not-so-subtle dog whistle' phrase here]" as it were, just because a few behave the way they do.

However, I won't deny evidence in general - especially when considering persons, not the entire lot, or culture. There is a plethora of demonstrable, anecdotal, suggestive and unethical/immoral evidence liking several stewards of the Church to certain behaviors.

 

[Glaucus]

It’s nice to know that Catholic bashing is alive and well in OBOB.

It's not bashing.

1. The Church has a history of this scandal.
2. The Church has covered it up in the past.
3. The Church has claimed people were lying before, only for them to be shown to be true.
4. The Pope has a history of unclear or outright ridiculous statements.
5. Source upon source is reporting this.

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

For all the leaders of the Church, Lord hear our prayer.
For all victims of sexual abuse, Lord hear our prayer.
For all Christians across our globe, Lord hear our prayer.

I have nothing constructive to add that will be charitable or kind. Therefor, I am going pray.

I do not have all the information in front of me. All I have is what is told to me second, third, and fourth hand. In general it seems like our world could use our prayers more then our arguments.

Lord Have Mercy

 

[Hieronymus]

Rome seems self-bashing..