Polystrate Tree Fossils

[JohnR7]

perhaps because he said so countless times, in diaries and so on.

He talks about the christian perspective. But he does not really claim to endorse it. Often he states what christians believe so he could refute it.

 

[Cantuar]

That maybe the case with Dr. Wise, but I do not think they all claim that their beliefs are not based on sound scientified evidence.

For all the creationist ministries, agreement with literal Genesis is the primary requirement of creation "science." Creationists don't do their own research, unless it's to do things like sending young rocks to dating labs and then being a bit liberal with the truth in reporting the results, in order to discredit the scientific techniques and methods being used by real scientists. Creationists aren't interested in an objective investigation of the universe, they're interested in having everything line up with their holy book and in getting public opinion on their side by whatever means it takes.

 

[LadyShea]

That maybe the case with Dr. Wise, but I do not think they all claim that their beliefs are not based on sound scientified evidence.

Well that would be nice, let's see if they act like scientists.

Most scientists worldwide (regardless of country see, the scientific method does not require one be of any certain religion or nationality) do things like show measurements, test results, list the tools/machines/methods used to determine various things, take pictures, get out in the fielld and dig. None of the creation "science" sites do this.

So, how do creation scientists determine something's age? How do they determine species assuming they stumble over a fossil? If they see a formation, do they eliminate all possible ways it could have been formed before concluding "The Flood"? How do they eliminate other possibilities? Kent Hovind states there were around 8000 kinds of animals on the ark and that the millions of species known today are variations on those kinds...what kinds were they? Can we see a list of kinds? Is there any physical evidence of this mass, short term variation situation?

Do you see John that these people do not behave like scientists in any way? Do you understand why we find it frustrating for these Dr. Dinoites to simply throw out ridiculous arguments against evolution yet have no evidence to explain their view?

 

[LorentzHA]

Why, because he was a student of natural theology and his degree was in theology? His dad just thought that to be a pastor would be a good way to make a living.

John, that is why I said, "I believe". I have not spent time studying Mr. Charles Darwin nor his life. I have read Voyages of the Beagle and know the basics of evolution via Biology courses. I am however quite familar with Biology, Bio-Chemistry, Organic etc, and may types of mutations. Evolution makes sense to me. I am quite familar with the human body and see where evolution has discontinued "parts" that are no longer used or needed. My Sister is a Dental Hygenist and cannot believe how many people are being born without "Wisdom teeth" even compared to 15 years ago.

I am in no way an expert on Abiogenesis and the study of that. Luckily, we have Lucaspa, Jet Black and many highly informed guys here. I am learning much from them.

Sometimes you have to study what people are willing to pay for, unless you want to get a job and pay your own way.

OK John..this was a dig at me because I am in my early 30's and still in school. I am not going to go, ad hominem...so I am just grinning

 

[LorentzHA]

Well that would be nice, let's see if they act like scientists.

Most scientists worldwide (regardless of country see, the scientific method does not require one be of any certain religion or nationality) do things like show measurements, test results, list the tools/machines/methods used to determine various things, take pictures, get out in the fielld and dig. None of the creation "science" sites do this.

So, how do creation scientists determine something's age? How do they determine species assuming they stumble over a fossil? If they see a formation, do they eliminate all possible ways it could have been formed before concluding "The Flood"? How do they eliminate other possibilities? Kent Hovind states there were around 8000 kinds of animals on the ark and that the millions of species known today are variations on those kinds...what kinds were they? Can we see a list of kinds? Is there any physical evidence of this mass, short term variation situation?

Do you see John that these people do not behave like scientists in any way? Do you understand why we find it frustrating for these Dr. Dinoites to simply throw out ridiculous arguments against evolution yet have no evidence to explain their view?

Well said!

 

[JohnR7]

OK John..this was a dig at me because I am in my early 30's and still in school. I am not going to go, ad hominem...so I am just grinning

Nothing wrong with still being in school. I think everyone should take at least one class a year. Even if they are not sure what they want to do, just to keep up with things.

I went back to bible collage when I was 50 and it was really hard at first, because I had been out of school for so long. So now I just sign up for one class at a time and that is pretty easy to keep up with.

My brother has a medical degree, but he want back to school in the evening to get an accounting degree, because he is the director of the clinic there. His wife has a masters degree in nursing and she said she is going to go back to school to study law. She is vice president of the hospital. So I guess if you want to keep getting ahead, you have to keep taking classes.

Esp. there are a lot of employers who will pay the tuition for employees who want to continue their education and take a class in the evening. Our local university here is working on building a huge infrastructure, to get people in and out of there who work but want to take a class in the evening, to try and get ahead.

We live in a day and a age when knowledge is really on the increase. So if you do not keep up, you will get left behind

 

[Plan 9]

Stephen Jay Gould, one of the most prolific and known pro-spontaneous-DNA-complexification (macroevolutionist) writers, calls the testimony of the fossil record against accidental species transitions "the trade secret of paleontologists".

The polystrate fossils are very real, Gary Smalley quotes the professor in the class he took on geological dating on the subject as something they don't understand.

Truthteller, may I please have the source of your Gould quote?

 

[Jet Black]

Stephen Jay Gould, one of the most prolific and known pro-spontaneous-DNA-complexification (macroevolutionist) writers, calls the testimony of the fossil record against accidental species transitions "the trade secret of paleontologists".

That is just a typical example of Creationists quoting scientists out of context in order to attempt to support their own arguments. Remember that the internet is an extraordinarily powerful tool, and can be used very rapidly to verify a quote or not (and I often do, I suggest you do too).

What Gould said was:

"The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of the branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils." (emphasis mine)

note that rarity does not equal absence. Just to verify that Gould did not think that transitional forms were non existant, here are a couple more quotes:

"But paleontologists have discovered several superb examples of intermediary forms and sequences, more than enough to convince any fair-minded skeptic about the reality of life's physical genealogy."
Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, May 1994

"Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups."
Stephen Jay Gould, Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes, p.261

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Gould made that statement in 1982 at a evil-oution confrence I recall. Hay another good quote by Aldus Huxley the late & former UNESCO head on Public Broabcastion in the early 70's when asked why he thought Evil-oution was accepted so quickly said "because the idea of god interfers wityhour sexual morays", what a eyeopening statement as well as a devistating statement for the evil-outionists to deal with.

Obediah - if you're going to continue to use that quote, despite the fact I've shown you it is completely unattributed and only ever appears in creationist character assassinations, at least learn to spell 'mores'.

At the same time, learn to spell Obadiah.

This is why I'm sure you're a troll. If you were really a fundamentalist Christian, you'd surely be able to spell the name of a book of the Old Testament.