Poll: Parental opinion

[Always in His Presence]

Your child is given hormone blockers without your knowledge or permission.

Do you support it, or do you object?

 

[Wings like Eagles]

Object emphatically.

 

[PloverWing]

A related, but different, question is: Would you object to your minor child using a different name and set of pronouns in school or social settings from the name and pronouns they use at home, without your permission?

 

[returnn23]

A related, but different, question is: Would you object to your minor child using a different name and set of pronouns in school or social settings from the name and pronouns they use at home, without your permission?

Who told the child about pronouns? Why bother with them? If a child, who has no real world experience, was subjected to a bad influence, I would find out where that idea came from and why the child wants to do it. If the source was trying to make the child think a certain way then I would object. I would explain things to the child.

 

[jayem]

Your child is given hormone blockers without your knowledge or permission.

Do you support it, or do you object?

I don't have children. But of course, I'd object. I'd object to my kid getting an antibiotic without my, or my wife's, knowledge or permission.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Who told the child about pronouns?

Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla

 

[stevevw]

A related, but different, question is: Would you object to your minor child using a different name and set of pronouns in school or social settings from the name and pronouns they use at home, without your permission?

Helping children to socially transition at school is happening now as far as I know and this will open the door for schools supporting children to undertake medical transitioning as a logical next step. In fact I think theres a Bill before Congress to allow medical transition for minors without parental concent. Socially Transitioning children have a high % of those going onto medical transitioning such as Hormone Blockers which can do harm to developing bodies.

I think this is a dangerous precedent being set where the State can intervene and enforce what is basically an ideological belief (not science or reality) onto children, their parents and society. To enforce such an ideology activists and the State are saying we hold the 'Truth' as to what is in the best interest of the child. Enough so that we can overide parents by cutting them out altogether. The State has become the surrogate parents which is more or less Totalitarianism. Strong and free socities need parents to be able to have the right to bring up their children according to their own private ideas and beliefs.

But it also overides the Gender Dysphoric child who is automatically Affirmed and Transitioned as Trans by assuming that a child or adolescent is Trans while other issues are ignored and that the young person is capable of understandeing and giving proper consent to what they are getting into. Especially when 85 to 90% of GD children grow out of the GD when left alone develop naturally. The State is more or less saying we know better and given their track record this is not good.

The other problem I think is that this idea is designed to undermine families. Trans and Gender ideology is based on Queer Theory which basically says gender and now sex, parental roles and families are socially constructed. So current ideas about sex and gender and thus all associated norms need to be destroyed and a new model re-constructed into societies institutions according to the new ideological belief. This starts with the institutions like education and the child and with undermining families such as deminishing parental roles and status.

Yet all the facts show that sex is real and a little boy cannot become a little girl and telling them their sex aned gender is not real only makes kids more GD. That children need strong families and role models and that families are the bedrock of strong and stable societies. Thats why I think potentially instilling this ideology into schools is a dangerious precedent when taken to its logical conclusion.

 

[DragonFox91]

Object. Need to be at least 18. After that I can tolerate their degeneracy.

Sadly they don’t want age limits on these things. Googled ‘transgender surgeries the other day & 1st page of results is all how doctors are recommending to start younger & younger.

 

[DragonFox91]

A related, but different, question is: Would you object to your minor child using a different name and set of pronouns in school or social settings from the name and pronouns they use at home, without your permission?

As recent as 5 years ago this wasn’t an issue. Kids didn’t talk to their teachers about gender. Kids thought learning about pronouns (in the classic sense) is boring. Why are teachers wanting to be so involved in this & why do they keep pushing it?

To better answer the question: yes, would object. But what would I really be able to do about it? You can't 100% control what a kid does when you're not present. The best you can do is get to the root cause.

 

[Larniavc]

I’d say 18 with an option for 16 based on the child in question. That’s how the law works in the UK and I’m happy with that.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Helping children to socially transition at school is happening now as far as I know and this will open the door for schools supporting children to undertake medical transitioning as a logical next step.

Nonsense. Doctors are not going to treat an unemancipated child without parental consent.

 

[PloverWing]

Helping children to socially transition at school is happening now as far as I know and this will open the door for schools supporting children to undertake medical transitioning as a logical next step.

As recent as 5 years ago this wasn’t an issue. Kids didn’t talk to their teachers about gender. Kids thought learning about pronouns (in the classic sense) is boring. Why are teachers wanting to be so involved in this & why do they keep pushing it?

I teach adults, not children, but here's what it looks like in my classroom: At the beginning of the semester, I distribute a getting-to-know-you questionnaire asking people's preferred names, pronouns, and a little bit about their interests and hobbies. Whatever name and pronouns they tell me, that's what I use through the semester. Sometimes they say "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Rob, and I use he/him." Sometimes they say "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Jane, and I use she/her." And sometimes, "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Jane, and I use she/her, but only in this classroom, because I'm not out to everyone in my life." I've heard all those variations from my students, and I honor them all. FERPA says I'm not allowed to call their parents on the phone and tell them what name and pronouns the students are using, but I wouldn't do that in any case; it's rude, and breaks trust.

Minors are different, and the laws for minors are different. Still, if I taught high school math instead of college math, I would want my student to be able to go by Jane and she/her in my classroom if they wanted to. It seems like a courtesy without harm, and it gives Jane a safe space for some exploration of identity.

Am I prescribing any kind of medication for my students? Absolutely not. I am neither a physician nor a psychologist.

In fact I think theres a Bill before Congress to allow medical transition for minors without parental concent.

Is this what you have in mind? FACT FOCUS: Posts distort Washington estranged minors law

The other problem I think is that this idea is designed to undermine families. Trans and Gender ideology is based on Queer Theory which basically says gender and now sex, parental roles and families are socially constructed. So current ideas about sex and gender and thus all associated norms need to be destroyed and a new model re-constructed into societies institutions according to the new ideological belief. This starts with the institutions like education and the child and with undermining families such as deminishing parental roles and status.

I would say, rather, that gender and sex and parenting and family are a complicated mix of biology, psychology, social structures, and individuals' choices. I would like to see norms expanded to embrace a wider variety of individuals and social groups.

 

[DragonFox91]

Plover, I find your post on what you do in your classroom unhelpful & squirming around the issue b/c the issue is specifically minors.

That’s fine that you’d call child by their preference if you did teach minors, but that again is not the issue in question & is again squirming the issue.

Also, Plover, the link you posted didn't address steve's concern & I'm not sure that is the bill in question or your link purposefully didn't include the part that is causing the most concern

EDIT: Never mind, that is the bill, & unfortunately the link you posted doesn't work in your favor: QUOTE: “We’re not mandating care, but the protections or the provisions of the bill are designed for youth who are seeking gender-affirming care to have that housing and stability while they’re seeking that care,” Liias said. “The goal is to protect them and make sure that they have housing during this period of crisis," Bowen said
Existing law generally requires licensed shelters and host homes to notify parents within 72 hours when a minor comes into their care. The bill would allow the facilities to instead contact the state Department of Children, Youth and Families, which could then attempt to reunify the family if feasible. The bill would also allow youths to stay at host homes, which are private homes that volunteer to temporarily house young people without parental permission.

Tell me how you provide housing & stability for children seeking puberty blockers & sex surgeries if parents don't approve (at least till child is older)?

I find it telling for PR they have to say it’s for kids who’ve been kicked out, like the state didn’t already have existing laws for kids who’ve been kicked out, & the law specifically addresses host homes that are trying to avoid parental permission. If they're estranged, why are they so scared of getting parents permission to not be there???? Does this article really think their audience is that stupid?

 

[PloverWing]

Plover, I find your post on what you do in your classroom unhelpful & squirming around the issue b/c the issue is specifically minors.

That’s fine that you’d call child by their preference if you did teach minors, but that again is not the issue in question & is again squirming the issue.

You and stevew had asked about why teachers were interested in students' preferred pronouns, and whether using students' preferred pronouns in school would lead to teachers suggesting medical transition to students. That's the issue I was addressing.

The issue in the AP article is different. As best as I can tell, the Washington State legislature is deciding who has to be notified when a runaway transgender teen shows up at a shelter. This is a complicated question, for which I do not have a simple answer.

 

[stevevw]

I teach adults, not children, but here's what it looks like in my classroom: At the beginning of the semester, I distribute a getting-to-know-you questionnaire asking people's preferred names, pronouns, and a little bit about their interests and hobbies. Whatever name and pronouns they tell me, that's what I use through the semester. Sometimes they say "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Rob, and I use he/him." Sometimes they say "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Jane, and I use she/her." And sometimes, "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Jane, and I use she/her, but only in this classroom, because I'm not out to everyone in my life." I've heard all those variations from my students, and I honor them all. FERPA says I'm not allowed to call their parents on the phone and tell them what name and pronouns the students are using, but I wouldn't do that in any case; it's rude, and breaks trust.

Minors are different, and the laws for minors are different. Still, if I taught high school math instead of college math, I would want my student to be able to go by Jane and she/her in my classroom if they wanted to. It seems like a courtesy without harm, and it gives Jane a safe space for some exploration of identity.

Am I prescribing any kind of medication for my students? Absolutely not. I am neither a physician nor a psychologist.

The question would be is Trans and Gender affirming language a justified treatment approach for kids. Adults are mature enough to understand what they are getting themselves into. Though I am not sure about this even many adults seem confused and conflicted. Research is showing that Affirmation and certainly Transitioning does not always solve GD and perhaps makes it worse.

But even more so for children. So affirming Trans and Gender language I think is affirming the whole ideology. You can't affirm the langauge without affirming the logical next steps of social and medical affirmation aned transition. For adults it may be too late but certainly automatically using this language is the first step to other possible damaging effects from continued Affirmation and Transition.

When we consider that the majority of GD children grow out of their Trans beliefs and that the Affirmation model assumes any non conforming behaviour is likely to be Trans behaviour this potentially creates false positives where kids who would have grown out of their GD are affirmed as Trans and taken down the transition path doing permanate harm then its a danagerous precendent to set in childrens class rooms.

Perhaps if we took the approach that Gendered language is only part of supporting Trans and people with GD while acknowledging that its only a label rather than representing the truth of the matter until we look at other comorbid issues that may help give a more balanced approach may be better.

Is this what you have in mind? FACT FOCUS: Posts distort Washington estranged minors law

Yes thats the Bill, but that article also mispresents things. This seems to be a common theme with these Bills like with Marriage, Gender and Sex laws which are glaringly ambigious which leaves too much room for exploitation. There is a clause in the Bill which allows Trans carers to not tell parents their childs location or not tell them at all under the "if the child is seeking or recieving 'Protected Health Care Services' and there is a percieved threat of abuse". So under this clause the State and its agents can withold information and the child from parents.

The question needs to be asked why parents disagreeing with their child about Trans ideology is regarded as a threat and abuse. This seems to be the false premise this Bill is based on and that is what people are objecting to. Now the State along with their agents are determining what is 'in the best interest of the child' and not the family which is breaching the rights of parents and shows the State encroaching more and more on family life.

I can understand if this was actual abuse like neglect, sexual or physical abuse. But this is in many cases concerned and loving parents not agreeing with what is really a delusion and social contagion in many cases. All the State is doing is forcing parents and society as a whole to basically indoctrinate then abduct children and adolescents from their families to further harm them by aiding them to continue their transition path and permanately destroy their bodies.

Like I said this ideology is smuggled in under a Nobel cause of "protecting' Trans youth. But has with it a damaging ideology that only further screws up young people with GD.

I would say, rather, that gender and sex and parenting and family are a complicated mix of biology, psychology, social structures, and individuals' choices. I would like to see norms expanded to embrace a wider variety of individuals and social groups.

I agree that gender and sex and parenting and family are a complicated mix of biology, psychology, social structures, and individuals' choices. That's a balanced and healthy view and one we need to take. Especially using an evidenced based approach as we have learnt from other issues that this is the only way to ground things and avoid spinning off into all sorts of pseudoscience and crazy ideas like 'a little boy can magically become a little girl' thus confusing and harming children with a false reality about themselves and the world.

But that's not whats happening with this ideology. It basically takes a restricted view of the world through the lens of Queer theory which is an unproven ideological belief and this is now beginning to be pushed in childrens education and society and made law.

There is a big difference between you voluntarily choosing to use peoples gender language and being forced to do so by law as though the law signifies that the ideology is the truth and everyone should follow it. Especially when we are now getting contrary evdience that it doesn't seem to work as claimed and actually may make children and youth worse off.

 

[DragonFox91]

You and stevew had asked about why teachers were interested in students' preferred pronouns, and whether using students' preferred pronouns in school would lead to teachers suggesting medical transition to students. That's the issue I was addressing.

The issue in the AP article is different. As best as I can tell, the Washington State legislature is deciding who has to be notified when a runaway transgender teen shows up at a shelter. This is a complicated question, for which I do not have a simple answer.

Okay, makes sense. I understand now where you were coming from in bring ingwhat you do in your classroom & were just talking more anecdotally than anything.

I'm not going to retype everything I already said about the bill to address how they're confusing you on the bill, & steve did a very nice job of doing it in his most recent post, but I will add I agree children should have some rights on their privacy issues & it's clear we haven't come up w/ a solution for a line between where their rights start & where parents rights start. But for gender-affirming care that affects the child physically, the State has drawn their line in the sand & I believe it's a line they're crossing.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

As recent as 5 years ago this wasn’t an issue. Kids didn’t talk to their teachers about gender. Kids thought learning about pronouns (in the classic sense) is boring. Why are teachers wanting to be so involved in this & why do they keep pushing it?

Because there are some teachers who are transgender and they share their stories with the students to "educate them". There are many teachers who are gay and lesbian and who strongly identify and support the LGBTQ... movement. They too try to share their life experiences with their students to "educate them" in their views. And the kids (usually not knowing anything about God's commandments except "love one another") soak it up and wonder "why do people dislike the LGBTQ... crowd so much". Unfortunately, the kids never get to truly understand the whole situation.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

I teach adults, not children, but here's what it looks like in my classroom: At the beginning of the semester, I distribute a getting-to-know-you questionnaire asking people's preferred names, pronouns, and a little bit about their interests and hobbies. Whatever name and pronouns they tell me, that's what I use through the semester. Sometimes they say "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Rob, and I use he/him." Sometimes they say "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Jane, and I use she/her." And sometimes, "My legal name is Robert, and I go by Jane, and I use she/her, but only in this classroom, because I'm not out to everyone in my life." I've heard all those variations from my students, and I honor them all. FERPA says I'm not allowed to call their parents on the phone and tell them what name and pronouns the students are using, but I wouldn't do that in any case; it's rude, and breaks trust.

Minors are different, and the laws for minors are different. Still, if I taught high school math instead of college math, I would want my student to be able to go by Jane and she/her in my classroom if they wanted to. It seems like a courtesy without harm, and it gives Jane a safe space for some exploration of identity.

Am I prescribing any kind of medication for my students? Absolutely not. I am neither a physician nor a psychologist.



Is this what you have in mind? FACT FOCUS: Posts distort Washington estranged minors law



I would say, rather, that gender and sex and parenting and family are a complicated mix of biology, psychology, social structures, and individuals' choices. I would like to see norms expanded to embrace a wider variety of individuals and social groups.

Going along with a person's delusion that they identify as something else is somewhat justifiable to keep the peace with that person BUT one should NOT ever agree with the delusional person and support their delusion. And yes I use the word "delusional". In my eyes, the American Psychiatric Association has no credibility in our society. They are just another tool to promote chaos in our society.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And the kids (usually not knowing anything about God's commandments except "love one another") soak it up and wonder "why do people dislike the LGBTQ... crowd so much". Unfortunately, the kids never get to truly understand the whole situation.

What is the whole situation? How should the kids be properly applying "love one another" or "love your neighbor as yourself" to gay people?

 

[Neutral Observer]

BUT one should NOT ever agree with the delusional person and support their delusion.

And yet you expect people to accept your delusions about God, and will readily condemn those who don't. Seems a little hypocritical wouldn't you say?

Your statement is exactly why the world is the way it is, because you look at them and see a delusional, perverted, and evil person... and they look at you and see the exact same thing. And rather than loving thy neighbor you each believe that the only way to live in harmony with one another is for one of you to completely eradicate the other. And you see honor in that. Somehow the message of loving thy neighbor just simply hasn't gotten through to you, and the only thing that Christ's life boils down to is for you to vehemently condemn those who disagree with you.

You just don't seem to realize that your attitude isn't the solution to evil... it's the cause.

If you can learn to forgive and accept them, then they will almost certainly learn to forgive and accept you, and you'll probably find that they'll be just as willing to compromise as you are. They're not radical because they want to be, they're radical because you force them to be.

Unfortunately forgiveness is easier said than done, and will... if Christ has shown us anything, require that we be willing to sacrifice ourselves even for those with whom we disagree. If you want acceptance and understanding from others, first show it unto them.

And with that I'll step down from my pulpit and slink back into the shadows where I belong.