Poll: Parental opinion

Would you object to your minor child being given hormone blockers without your permission or knowled


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stevevw

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The law (which adjudicates rights) is clear. The parents rights win, except in certain situations, none of which is specific to gender transition.


I don't know what the 'narrative of Trans ideology' says, but I know what the law says. It is just not true that "treatment can go ahead despite parental consent." as you previously stated.
Actually treatment can go ahead without parental consent. Under Minor Informed Consent a minor can be determined by a court that they can have treatment despite parents disagreeing. It basically gives minors similar consent to adults provided its determined they understand what is happening and that denying treatment would put them at risk of harm. Minors can also be emancipated from their parents through court thus allowing them to consent without their parents. This applies to countries like the US, Britain and Australia.

OVERCOMING THE PARENTAL VETO: HOW TRANSGENDER ADOLESCENTS CAN ACCESS PUBERTY-SUPPRESSING HORMONE TREATMENT IN THE ABSENCE OF PARENTAL CONSENT UNDER THE MATURE MINOR DOCTRINE

High court to decide if children can consent to gender reassignment

In fact, even the current issue of the American Journal of Bioethics includes an article arguing that the state should overrule the parents of transgender children who do not consent to give them puberty-blocking drugs.

More courts are giving minors legal status when it comes to consenting without parents. I think this is just the start and we will eventually see it become a precendent and enforced throughout most Western Nations despite lack of clear evidence and potential harms.

A number of Bills recently passed also give the State and its agents the power to basically take children away from parents and allow them to get transition treatment without parents consents based on percieved abuse and neglect from parents who disagree that their child should Transition.

California introduced a Bill 5599 which makes the State a safe haven for minors whose parents refuse to allow them treatment. State agents like youth hostels can take custody based on percieved abuse or neglect of parents under section 2 of the Bill. This states "a minor’s desire to seek “protected health care services” is a compelling reason not to notify parents of the child’s location or to seek parental consent before those health care services are delivered". Protected health care services is cross referenced with another Bill 5489 (titled the “Shield Law”), and include all “gender-affirming treatments”. Another similar Bill 1469 does the same for Washington State and more will follow.

Double mastectomy is legal for minors in Oregon without parental consent and the Government will even pay for it.
Oregon allowing 15-year-olds to get state-subsidized sex-change operations

In fact, an issue of the American Journal of Bioethics includes an article arguing that the state should overrule the parents of transgender children who do not consent to give them puberty-blocking drugs. This has already happened. In Ohio, a judge removed a biological girl from her parents’ custody after they declined to help her “transition” to male with testosterone supplements.

The ACT in Australia has passed into law a Bill that potentially criminalizes parents who refuse to allow their child to Affirmative medical Transition. It applies the same logic as outlawed Conversion Therapy for Gays and forbids any treatment investigating causes other than Trans.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/gender-reassigned-to-the-ideological-sin-bin/news

This all comes on the back of schools affirming and transitioning children socially and also setting up health care plans for Gender Dysphoric children behind parents backs. So by the time they are teens whether genuinely Trans or not (as 85% of GD kids align with their birth sex after puberty) they are well and truely indoctrinated with the ideology and parents are forced to go along otherwise they are regarded as abusive. So the ideology has a history of denying parents rights in the name of so called protecting Trans youth.

Parents kept in the dark as teachers increasingly turn to external agencies that promote 'controversial and contested beliefs', warns report

This includes governing bodies like Teachers Associations actually calling for kids to be transitioned without parents knowledge.
In June 2019, the California Teachers Association voted to support a proposal for allowing children leave school during school hours to receive transsexual hormones, without parental permission.

The narrative being pushed is that any kid showing signs of non conforming gender behaviour is Trans despite this being part of their natural development and that many gay and lesbian kids are GD and not Trans and 85% of kids grow out of GD. That everyone including schools and parents must Affirm this ideology and allow Transition or otherwise be labelled transphobic and that the Affirmation and Transition model is the only treatment that works to solve GD despite little evdience and in fact evidence to the contrary because it doesn't address the underlying causes such as other body dysmorphic disorders, autism or past traumatic experiences.

Casualties of a Social, Psychological, and Medical Fad: The Dangers of Transgender Ideology in Medicine
You might be surprised to learn that the evidence is sorely lacking. We have been led to believe that there is a scientific consensus on this issue: that gender affirmation and “transitioning” have been scientifically proven to be the correct approaches to dealing with transgenderism in both children and adults. This appears to be largely false.

The overall “quality of evidence” for every category of treatment was rated “very low.”

This past June, the American College of Pediatricians released a policy statement titled “Gender Dysphoria in Children” that asserts that there is a “vigorous, albeit suppressed, debate among physicians, therapists, and academics regarding what is fast becoming the new treatment standard for GD [gender dysphoria] in children.” Disputing the growing trend of using hormone therapy to treat children with gender dysphoria, the College states that “a review of the current literature suggests that this protocol is founded upon an unscientific gender ideology, lacks an evidence base, and violates the long-standing ethical principle of ‘First do no harm.’”
Casualties of a Social, Psychological, and Medical Fad: The Dangers of Transgender Ideology in Medicine
 
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essentialsaltes

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Actually treatment can go ahead without parental consent. Under Minor Informed Consent a minor can be determined by a court that they can have treatment despite parents disagreeing.
Right, they are effectively or actually emancipated by a court.
 
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stevevw

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Right, they are effectively or actually emancipated by a court.
Thats right the court will treat minors as adults when it comes to taking experimental Hormone therapy and sex change surgery. Some States like Oregon allow minors to get surgery and Hormone therapy without going to court as the age of consent has been lowered to 15.

Seems strange considering we don't allow minors to smoke cigarettes or marijuana, drive alone, send or receive sexts, vote, work more than 18 hours a week, drink, eat unhealthy foods or administer aspirin at school, get tattoos or use a tanning bed. Yet in Oregon they are allowed to have Trans procedures that mutilate their bodies as well as have sex, receive birth control, take a pregnancy test, and get an abortion.

As mentioned I think this will become more common considering the narrative thats been pushed claims that no allowing these transition proceedures puts a minor at significant risk of mental illness and suicide making it about life and death and a Rights issue. It comes down to a clash between parental Rights and children and adolescents Rights. Its a fundemental Right that parents be allowed to bring up their kids how they see fit and not the State. Its a dangerious thing to allow the State so much control.

The question has to be asked can children and young people comprehend what it happening and the long term risks. The science is not clear on the benefits and risks of Transitioning so adults edon't even know. Though social and physical transitioning shows some relief initially studies have shown that long term benefits are reduced and the GD and mental illness continues and may get worse as the underlying issues have not been addressed.

The issue is not helped by Trans activists who act as gatekeepers and shut out any alternative causes thus pushing more GD kids down the Affirmation and Transition path which is a big concern considering most GD kids grow out of it.

That is the significant difference between parents and others who are cautious and skeptical about Trans ideology as it rejects any investigation into the psychological causes because this medicalizes Trans people which implies there is a disorder rather than being a normal variation of being human.

So its really an ideological and cultural difference and battle about how humans and society should be ordered, what is best in how we should structure gender roles, family and society. One I think that has evolved from the same ideology as the Feminist, Abortion and SSM issues relating to what gender and sex represents for society. Its just a progression of the same assumptions and beliefs about human nature and nature itself and reality for that matter.
 
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stevevw

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A related, but different, question is: Would you object to your minor child using a different name and set of pronouns in school or social settings from the name and pronouns they use at home, without your permission?
I think this would also be a breach of parents rights in protecting their child because most children who are Affirmed socially go onto transition medically such as with puberty blockers and sex change hormones. Once on this path its hard to get off even if the child or parent may have reservations because changing minds is seen as undermining the Affirmative model that questioning gender means being Trans and being Trans means Affirming transition.
 
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HIM

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I have no problem with gay people. Real love involves sacrifice. In the present, love usually means sex. Leave the kids alone. It is wrong to "educate" them this way.
If we are of God then we should have a problem with the sin and the sinner. Sin is like a virus, hence why God was so harsh in the Old Testament times.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Your child is given hormone blockers without your knowledge or permission.

Do you support it, or do you object?
It depends on a wide variety of factors. How old is my child? Have they been telling me it giving indications they contend with dysmorphia? Has somebody at school been told this? Where are the pills from? Are they under the care of a doctor or mental health professional? Have they told my child’s PCP? Is there a reason my kid did this without my knowledge?

My answer is going to be different if it’s my 17 year old who’s under the care of a doctor provided through a social worker at school vs my 10 year old who’s taking them from a peer or the playground without medical supervision.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Actually treatment can go ahead without parental consent. Under Minor Informed Consent a minor can be determined by a court that they can have treatment despite parents disagreeing. It basically gives minors similar consent to adults provided its determined they understand what is happening and that denying treatment would put them at risk of harm. Minors can also be emancipated from their parents through court thus allowing them to consent without their parents. This applies to countries like the US, Britain and Australia.

OVERCOMING THE PARENTAL VETO: HOW TRANSGENDER ADOLESCENTS CAN ACCESS PUBERTY-SUPPRESSING HORMONE TREATMENT IN THE ABSENCE OF PARENTAL CONSENT UNDER THE MATURE MINOR DOCTRINE

High court to decide if children can consent to gender reassignment

In fact, even the current issue of the American Journal of Bioethics includes an article arguing that the state should overrule the parents of transgender children who do not consent to give them puberty-blocking drugs.

More courts are giving minors legal status when it comes to consenting without parents. I think this is just the start and we will eventually see it become a precendent and enforced throughout most Western Nations despite lack of clear evidence and potential harms.

A number of Bills recently passed also give the State and its agents the power to basically take children away from parents and allow them to get transition treatment without parents consents based on percieved abuse and neglect from parents who disagree that their child should Transition.

California introduced a Bill 5599 which makes the State a safe haven for minors whose parents refuse to allow them treatment. State agents like youth hostels can take custody based on percieved abuse or neglect of parents under section 2 of the Bill. This states "a minor’s desire to seek “protected health care services” is a compelling reason not to notify parents of the child’s location or to seek parental consent before those health care services are delivered". Protected health care services is cross referenced with another Bill 5489 (titled the “Shield Law”), and include all “gender-affirming treatments”. Another similar Bill 1469 does the same for Washington State and more will follow.

Double mastectomy is legal for minors in Oregon without parental consent and the Government will even pay for it.
Oregon allowing 15-year-olds to get state-subsidized sex-change operations

In fact, an issue of the American Journal of Bioethics includes an article arguing that the state should overrule the parents of transgender children who do not consent to give them puberty-blocking drugs. This has already happened. In Ohio, a judge removed a biological girl from her parents’ custody after they declined to help her “transition” to male with testosterone supplements.

The ACT in Australia has passed into law a Bill that potentially criminalizes parents who refuse to allow their child to Affirmative medical Transition. It applies the same logic as outlawed Conversion Therapy for Gays and forbids any treatment investigating causes other than Trans.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/gender-reassigned-to-the-ideological-sin-bin/news

This all comes on the back of schools affirming and transitioning children socially and also setting up health care plans for Gender Dysphoric children behind parents backs. So by the time they are teens whether genuinely Trans or not (as 85% of GD kids align with their birth sex after puberty) they are well and truely indoctrinated with the ideology and parents are forced to go along otherwise they are regarded as abusive. So the ideology has a history of denying parents rights in the name of so called protecting Trans youth.

Parents kept in the dark as teachers increasingly turn to external agencies that promote 'controversial and contested beliefs', warns report

This includes governing bodies like Teachers Associations actually calling for kids to be transitioned without parents knowledge.
In June 2019, the California Teachers Association voted to support a proposal for allowing children leave school during school hours to receive transsexual hormones, without parental permission.

The narrative being pushed is that any kid showing signs of non conforming gender behaviour is Trans despite this being part of their natural development and that many gay and lesbian kids are GD and not Trans and 85% of kids grow out of GD. That everyone including schools and parents must Affirm this ideology and allow Transition or otherwise be labelled transphobic and that the Affirmation and Transition model is the only treatment that works to solve GD despite little evdience and in fact evidence to the contrary because it doesn't address the underlying causes such as other body dysmorphic disorders, autism or past traumatic experiences.

Casualties of a Social, Psychological, and Medical Fad: The Dangers of Transgender Ideology in Medicine
You might be surprised to learn that the evidence is sorely lacking. We have been led to believe that there is a scientific consensus on this issue: that gender affirmation and “transitioning” have been scientifically proven to be the correct approaches to dealing with transgenderism in both children and adults. This appears to be largely false. W

The overall “quality of evidence” for every category of treatment was rated “very low.”

This past June, the American College of Pediatricians released a policy statement titled “Gender Dysphoria in Children” that asserts that there is a “vigorous, albeit suppressed, debate among physicians, therapists, and academics regarding what is fast becoming the new treatment standard for GD [gender dysphoria] in children.” Disputing the growing trend of using hormone therapy to treat children with gender dysphoria, the College states that “a review of the current literature suggests that this protocol is founded upon an unscientific gender ideology, lacks an evidence base, and violates the long-standing ethical principle of ‘First do no harm.’”
Casualties of a Social, Psychological, and Medical Fad: The Dangers of Transgender Ideology in Medicine

This is preposterous. This is why most religious and many conservatives people now put their foot down when LGBTQ+... groups request even the slightest steps to advance their rights. These LGBTQ+... groups know the law too well and that by requesting steps A and B be put into place under federal law, they will change C under the federal in their favor.

These leaders in these LGBTQ+... groups are very, very diabolical. This really has nothing to do with religion and good choices. This is a plan to alter the civilized path into the future.
 
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stevevw

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This is preposterous. This is why most religious and many conservatives people now put their foot down when LGBTQ+... groups request even the slightest steps to advance their rights. These LGBTQ+... groups know the law too well and that by requesting steps A and B be put into place under federal law, they will change C under the federal in their favor.

These leaders in these LGBTQ+... groups are very, very diabolical. This really has nothing to do with religion and good choices. This is a plan to alter the civilized path into the future.
Disagreeing with the Trans ideology is not being Transphobic or hateful. Its quite the opposite. Any fair minded person would agree that if someone suffered from a serious ailment we would want to consider all possible alternatives to help them. The fact that the ideology only wants one option (trans care model) shows that this approach is not caring and protecting and exposes the irrational thinking because we would not restrict help that way in any other situation.

True care and compassion is allowing all possible alternatives in caring for people with GD or any problem. We know adderessing issues that humans face are multifaceted and we know humans are multi dimensional beings with a mental, physical, emotional and spiritual aspect that needs support. Supporting all these aspects takes a holistic approach which we know is ultimately the best approach.

But what this ideology does is focus on the physical only aspect which will only partly help and in some ways exasperates GD because it places all the attention and hope of a solution on the body to fit in with all other dimensions of being human and that will never work in the long run.

I think most ideologues who support Trans know this but persist even if that means harming children because this is about belief and because they are so invested its near impossible to see sense and admit the truth. That may be ok for adults to believe but not for kids and even so not to force that belief on everyone just like any religion or political belief.

This is not about car and protection of Trans and GNC people but about pushing a belief and assumption about the worled on everyone.
 
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TheLastGeek

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Your child is given hormone blockers without your knowledge or permission.

Do you support it, or do you object?
What kind of parent worth their salt would support anyone doing anything medical to their child without their knowledge? I'd not only object but track down whoever touched my kid and have some...words for them.
 
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