Political conservative & christian conservatives

[The Grouch]

There has been a huge increase in conservativism politically and i think that is down to a major push by conservative christians of all stripes. The current trend away from conservative and christian values has been a very long one over half a centuary probably even longer do you think the trend can be reversed or are we too late. If it can do you think it can be done quickly or are we looking at a 50 to 100 year process... can it be done peacefully or do you think the west will decend into chaos and violence. To me it does appear that christian civilization is in its death throws with the current new lease of life of christians a last ditch attempt to preserve our culture and way of life while we have had a great amount of success in such a short period of time i still feel we will have a long way to go and things could easily go wrong. I wonder what others think on this subject and where you think it will go

 

[Albion]

When facing questions like this one, I often remind myself that it is difficult to predict the future. When it actually happens, we look back and say that various factors led to a certain outcome, BUT knowing the direction in advance is very tough. Things can easily go in ways that were not expected.

Even the famous observation that those who do not remember the past are forced to relive it isn't as good a gauge as is supposed. That's for the simple reason that the past never reoccurs exactly. There is always some factor that isn't the same, and that could be the one that makes all the difference.

 

[paul1149]

I think it would take a prophet to tell if we survive in any recognizable form or not. With technology, unimaginable changes are coming in any case, but whether the ideals and fabric of the nation survive is up for grabs.

I think a lot of us felt that after the past 8 years, the nation was at the precipice of disaster, and that electing Clinton would have put it over the edge. There was a lot of extraordinary concern, and finding someone willing to say what we were thinking gave us hope. I believe we currently have an open window for undoing a lot of the encroachment that has plagued us, and that we are obligated to make the most of it, either by action or by prayer. The results are ultimately up to the Lord, but our charge is to be faithful with what we have been given.

Whether recovery can be quick or not - I think we could make major strides quickly which could change the level of optimism dramatically. But even so there is a lot of generational pick and shovel work at the cultural level that is going to take time.

 

[The Grouch]

Both good replies guys. There is good reason for hope both through faith but also in politics at the moment. But i cant help but have concern that should the tables turn once more we will be in for one a heck of a backlash against conservatives which is exactly why we need to take this window of opportunity however big or small it is to do as much as we can. I do think the left are their own worst enemy at the moment by pushing gender ideology and other extremist notions that do not sit well with ordinary people.

I think a main cause of the success of conservativism is due to the internet. Since the left have controlled the media for so long many of us have felt alone and isolated but with the advent of the net we have been able to find one another which has enabled us to realise that we are not alone that infact we have large large numbers which is also why i find the moves to regulate the internet very disturbing... while i do think it needs some regulation i do not trust the current powerstructure to do so without clamping down on conservatives. Like in the uk where laws are proposed that would lead to upto 15yrs imprisonment for viewing rightwing information.

 

[FenderTL5]

I think a main cause of the success of conservativism is due to the internet. Since the left have controlled the media for so long many of us have felt alone and isolated but with the advent of the net we have been able to find one another which has enabled us to realise that we are not alone that infact we have large large numbers which is also why i find the moves to regulate the internet very disturbing... while i do think it needs some regulation i do not trust the current powerstructure to do so without clamping down on conservatives.

So do you support or oppose net neutrality?

 

[The Grouch]

So do you support or oppose net neutrality?

I support net neutrality

 

[Halbhh]

I feel Christ has all the truths in both "conservative" and "liberal" ideas/philosophies, as only a small part of the Truth that He has.

As Paul wrote it in some places --

"... We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God."

and

"...where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

See, both "conservative" and "liberal" are just ideas/knowledge, just as Paul refers to even.

They are very much "in part".

Definitely "conservative" is very much "in part", and not the whole. Same for "liberal"

 

[The Grouch]

I feel Christ has all the truths in both "conservative" and "liberal" ideas/philosophies, as only a small part of the Truth that He has.

As Paul wrote it in some places --

"... We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. 2 Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. 3 But whoever loves God is known by God."

and

"

I am not sure i understand what your saying

 

[Halbhh]

I am not sure i understand what your saying

I just finished adding the useful stuff! please look now above at that post again

 

[Halbhh]

The "enemy" (the "prince of this world" as Christ called him) can do his harms through any political system or philosophy, but I'd totally agree with you that the enemy was able to use totalitarian communism to accomplish a lot of evil. But one of the clever tricks the enemy has is to make the normal seem wrong, and the wrong seem normal also.

The real catch is that the enemy is clever enough to be able to use "conservative" philosophy just as easily as "liberal", as he is the "father of lies", and can fool the populace quite easily, and always find a new way to make a lot of people think that up is down. If anything, precisely because the enemy used communism so well, and we all know it now, I bet his next trick will not use communism, but he's clever enough to somehow use "freedom" or "patriotism" or some such conservative value and trick us into some new scheme we don't expect.

The only way to avoid his snares will be to trust only in the Truth from Christ Words and in the Bible, and pray that we be delivered from the evil one, as in the Lord's Prayer in Matthew chapter 6. Don't rely too much on your own knowledge to be safe from the schemes of the enemy, I think we all should remember.

 

[paul1149]

I think there is a lot of truth to the differentiation between classic liberalism, which was dominant at the time of the founding of America, and the liberalism of today, which is Marxist in nature. The racial and gender insanity that is going on can only lead to one place: total ungovernable social and political anarchy, and complete intolerance toward anyone holding to Biblical values.

I want to add to my previous post regarding the chances of us recovering, that I actually do think we've gone too far to recover. All the institutions are in the tank. We have multiple generations already essentially lost, so that many young voters today have no idea what principles America was founded on, or even what the 1st Amendment is. Their not taught history, and certainly not religion, they're taught political correctness and class warfare.

But emphatically, I don't think we're too far gone for the Lord to turn it around. The church is at a place where it can't trust in man, nor in princes, but can only trust in the Lord. And that will be enough. Each of us needs to be involved in the life of the nation to the extent he is called to be, but beyond that everyone needs to be praying the prayer of faith for the salvation and healing of the nation. If the church rises up and is the church, there is an awful lot we can accomplish.

 

[The Grouch]

The "enemy" (the "prince of this world" as Christ called him) can do his harms through any political system or philosophy, but I'd totally agree with you that the enemy was able to use totalitarian communism to accomplish a lot of evil. But one of the clever tricks the enemy has is to make the normal seem wrong, and the wrong seem normal also.

The real catch is that the enemy is clever enough to be able to use "conservative" philosophy just as easily as "liberal", as he is the "father of lies", and can fool the populace quite easily, and always find a new way to make a lot of people think that up is down. If anything, precisely because the enemy used communism so well, and we all know it now, I bet his next trick will not use communism, but he's clever enough to somehow use "freedom" or "patriotism" or some such conservative value and trick us into some new scheme we don't expect.

The only way to avoid his snares will be to trust only in the Truth from Christ Words and in the Bible, and pray that we be delivered from the evil one, as in the Lord's Prayer in Matthew chapter 6. Don't rely too much on your own knowledge to be safe from the schemes of the enemy, I think we all should remember.

I absolutly agree with the sentiment of this post. I think your right which is why its important that we make sure it does not go to far, so homosexuals dont become persecuted or it somehow leads to a holocaust of the muslims but lets be honest we are a million miles away from either of those being a risk. Never the less it is important to be mindfull that we must be a counter balance against the extremes of both right and left... it just so happens that the left have gone to the extrem of extremes

 

[The Grouch]

I think there is a lot of truth to the differentiation between classic liberalism, which was dominant at the time of the founding of America, and the liberalism of today, which is Marxist in nature. The racial and gender insanity that is going on can only lead to one place: total ungovernable social and political anarchy, and complete intolerance toward anyone holding to Biblical values.

I want to add to my previous post regarding the chances of us recovering, that I actually do think we've gone too far to recover. All the institutions are in the tank. We have multiple generations already essentially lost, so that many young voters today have no idea what principles America was founded on, or even what the 1st Amendment is. Their not taught history, and certainly not religion, they're taught political correctness and class warfare.

But emphatically, I don't think we're too far gone for the Lord to turn it around. The church is at a place where it can't trust in man, nor in princes, but can only trust in the Lord. And that will be enough. Each of us needs to be involved in the life of the nation to the extent he is called to be, but beyond that everyone needs to be praying the prayer of faith for the salvation and healing of the nation. If the church rises up and is the church, there is an awful lot we can accomplish.

I agree that potentially we are too far gone. I think there is one way that it could be saved and that is by using the media mostly tv sport and film to promote conservative values rather than pull them down it maybe just maybe possible but the mainstream media is controlled by the left as is almost every other important institution like education and judges politicians etc. Still we are having huge success online with videos and internet radio even twitter and facebook but i dont think these are going to be enough we certainly have a huge battle for hearts and minds and ultimatly souls.

 

[Julian of Norwich]

Although I'm conservative religiously and socially, I'm liberal economically. Any hope for me? I was born and raised in the 50s and 60s and want it to go back.

 

[Halbhh]

Although I'm conservative religiously and socially, I'm liberal economically. Any hope for me? I was born and raised in the 50s and 60s and want it to go back.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?

25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

 

[dhh712]

There has been a huge increase in conservativism politically and i think that is down to a major push by conservative christians of all stripes. The current trend away from conservative and christian values has been a very long one over half a centuary probably even longer do you think the trend can be reversed or are we too late. If it can do you think it can be done quickly or are we looking at a 50 to 100 year process... can it be done peacefully or do you think the west will decend into chaos and violence. To me it does appear that christian civilization is in its death throws with the current new lease of life of christians a last ditch attempt to preserve our culture and way of life while we have had a great amount of success in such a short period of time i still feel we will have a long way to go and things could easily go wrong. I wonder what others think on this subject and where you think it will go

Oh, it will go back to conservative Christian values as the normative value of society. (unless Jesus returns before that time). Although we are progressing linearly until the time of Jesus' return, these kinds of trends occur cyclically.

We actually are not existing in the most hedonistic times in civilization. We've seen this before, many many times. The "Puritanic" days are up and coming again. Not sure when. 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, 200 years? Who knows. But one things is sure is that it will happen again. Nothing new exists under the sun as we well know.

 

[Tomm]

It's hard to fight against them now because they are backed by very rich people. We absolutely can't count on politicians. The only way is to heed the message of Fatima. In other words, divine intervention is the only way, I think.

I was thinking about the difference between American conservatives and other conservatives a few days ago.
The former seems to emphasize on liberty A LOT, so much that they sound like liberals to me while the latter emphasize on morality and traditional values.

 

[Albion]

I was thinking about the difference between American conservatives and other conservatives a few days ago.
The former seems to emphasize on liberty A LOT, so much that they sound like liberals to me while the latter emphasize on morality and traditional values.

You have a pretty good view of the matter there, Tomm. American conservatives do emphasize individual liberty--in part because of the history of the country--but that doesn't automatically make them standard liberals, i.e. classical liberals or laissez-faire liberals. That is because they also do emphasize traditional values.

Meanwhile, the people who once were their opposite number, the classical liberals, have moved in the direction of socialism so that the historic dichotomy has been replaced by a new one: conservative-liberal vs. socialist...but we are still using the same terminology (conservative vs liberal) that we used in the 19th century.

 

[VCR-2000]

Politically, I identify closer with conservatives but on many other things I focus more on individual liberty. I'm not purist about morality, but I do agree with a lot of the principle behind it.

I was born in the early 90s and was a tween up to 2004, even I have seen stuff I thought looked shocking. Don't know how many in my generation, but I share the personal despair of realizing that this is an agenda by what we call the "left" today and they are the only ones exclusively that control the important institutions. Like conservatives and also libertarians are disposable losers who have no shot so to speak.

I have a very bad feeling about politics and our society lately. If we have too far gone where its now too late, what do conservatives do?

And you don't really need to be religious to realize the left is destroying your own yard too.

 

[VCR-2000]

Although I'm conservative religiously and socially, I'm liberal economically. Any hope for me? I was born and raised in the 50s and 60s and want it to go back.

Your thought itself reminds me of something I thought. I was raised as an older kid and tween in late-90s and early-2000s. I personally would have liked being during the 70s and 80s. The 50s were too conservative and bland and 2018 is too crazy leftist and dystopian.