• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Police Barricade and force closure of Canadian Church

Discussion in 'Current News & Events (Articles Required)' started by Jamdoc, Apr 7, 2021 at 11:08 PM.

  1. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

    +1,023
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/...ce-with-fencing-tarps-to-keep-worshippers-out



    In February police arrested James Coates, Pastor of Grace Life Church outside of Edmonton, Alberta, for holding in person services despite Covid restrictions. Now after releasing the pastor, they physically closed down the church, barricading it with fencing and placing armed officers to prevent people from going in to worship.
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,274
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    Just waiting for the "We aren't infringing on religious rights; we are protecting people under public health measures" crowd. Won't be long now.....
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. Jamdoc

    Jamdoc Well-Known Member

    +1,023
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    Oh that's what this whole thing was. It's bonkers too because under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms the rights to peacefully assemble, right of freedom of association, and freedom of religion, so those rights to free exercise of religion are codified and enshrined in some of Canada's highest laws, like it is here in the US, but jailing Pastors for free exercise and barring people's right to freedom of peacable assembly? It's nuts. Those cops should be arresting themselves for violating the law!
     
  4. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

    682
    +366
    Christian
    Hi,

    Sorry I'm late.....

    so... as we all know lockdowns really suck, personally speaking my life and the lives of my children have been severely and irrevocably impacted by this damn pandemic, or rather the response to it and honestly I'm about done with the whole damn thing...

    I'm done with being nannied and overprotected, but why on earth do you think we should have religious rights? None of the 1st century Christians had them, the prophets didn't have any, the Israelites were clearly slaves for large sections of their history, and persecuted for much more of it.

    Why should we have rights? They are not conferred to us by our pastors, or our faithfulness to the gospel.

    Our rights, that we treasure so highly, are the gift of our legal systems. The very same legal systems that we are outraged at for temporarily suspending those rights.

    So by all means we should complain when we feel we are having our rights violated, but we should be aware that the only reason that we are allowed to complain about their loss, is because we actually still have them.

    Which of my rights should I value more than the right to life? Would it be reasonable to sacrifice another's life, for my right to hold a worship service?

    Would it not be more reasonable to sacrifice all worship services, for a single life?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021 at 8:50 PM
  5. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

    +5,081
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Republican
    Our rights are ultimately a gift from God, not from government, as is averred in our mission statement, the Declaration of Independence. It is government's job to secure those God-given rights, and there is plenty of cause for concern that we are losing that battle at an alarming rate. And if we don't use the rights we still have to try to stop the advancing tyranny, we will lose it all.

    And if we do lose it all, then so be it, we will be like much of the church down through history, in a hostile environment. But that is not something we should wish for. Back then they had no say in their government, short of revolution. Now we have a voice, so we have to use it.

    I've heard this proposal before in defense of the lockdowns, but I'm not sure how you would mensurate the equation driving this exchange, seeing that the lockdown has significant human costs, and also seeing that all the lockdowns, social distancing, and mask-wearing has been of very dubious statistical benefit.
     
  6. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

    682
    +366
    Christian
    Nope we have no rights, other than those granted to us by accident of birth, or the actions of those that have gone before us. You can appeal to an imaginary 'natural law' such as 'all men are created equal' if you like, but it is not a 'natural law' that is found in 'nature', 'all lobsters are not created equal' - some have bigger claws.

    There is no Bill of Rights in the bible, only a Bill of Restrictions.."Though shalt not..." this is not the same.

    The 'advancing tyranny' that you speak of is the 'woke' tyranny of people making their own 'declarations of independence' and drafting their own 'bills of rights' and it is not so much a rejection of the 'mission statement' it is rather the logical extension of it.

    You can argue that as 'bearers of the image of God' all human life is sacred and as such of preeminent value (I would agree), which brings me to your response on the relative values of worship services and human lives.

    It is not the disproportionality of lockdowns(they can be disproportionate), or even their effectiveness at saving lives(their effectiveness is undeniable) or that people might commit suicide if they don't go to church, they might.

    What is being contested is the supposed preeminence of the religious right of assembly.

    So my question is, which is more valuable to you, your right to exercise your religious freedom to meet in public, or your neighbour's right to not die in a Covid ward? if it's a trade off, then what loss of life is an acceptable one?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021 at 6:40 AM
  7. Simon D

    Simon D New Member

    63
    +25
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    Guys let's be reasonable, many places have been shut down or had capacity reduced because of lockdowns. This is not taking away religious rights because it isn't just the church that has to follow the rules it's everywhere, shops, gyms, swimming pools. If you want to break the rules why can't people accept the consequences?
     
  8. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,274
    Christian
    Single
    US-Constitution
    No. If a person is that terrified of catching covid then let them stay home. Why should any one person be able to dictate to the rest of us.
     
  9. Simon D

    Simon D New Member

    63
    +25
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Widowed
    Because their husband/wife/carer/child might catch covid from you and bring it home so you want vulnerable people to live in solitary confinement so you can selfishly sit in an overcrowded building for an hour instead of either following social distance guidance or just watching the sermon on zoom. So much for Jesus telling us to care about the least of us.
     
  10. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

    +5,081
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    US-Republican
    If the Bible says "Do not murder", that grants everyone a right to life. Natural law is not imaginary.

    As I implied earlier, this is a false dichotomy. Lockdowns have their costs in terms of health, and its benefits are far from proven. A far saner way to approach the disease would have been to protect the vulnerable and let the strong continue to live their lives and in so doing build up herd immunity for everyone.
     
  11. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

    +8,454
    United Kingdom
    Catholic
    Single
    Dont be selfish i would say. Follow health guidlines, like my church does and you can then remain open.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021 at 10:33 AM
  12. apogee

    apogee Regular Member

    682
    +366
    Christian
    So long as they have sufficient health insurance.

    I have stated from the outset that Lockdowns are costly, they have had huge detrimental effects, not least on the most vulnerable in society.

    The benefits of impeding transmission and thereby protecting health systems are self-evident and undeniable. They save lives. Breaking lockdowns, for the sake of self-expression, is the pinnacle of selfishness.

    If you are alluding to Sweden their experience does not support this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021 at 11:04 AM
Loading...