Pointless to Focus on Sin

[Thomas White]

Doesn't he stray from your "guidelines"?

No. They're His guidelines. It would be hard for Him to stray from His "guidelines."

 

[Thomas White]

God is love, but He is NOT an enabler.

Would you continue to "love" a drug abuser by ignoring his addiction that is hurting himself and others? ...Or would you get him into rehab? What would be the first step towards the latter?

The first step towards solving any problem is to first admit there is one. This is how repentance starts. Acknowledging sin is the first step towards getting saved and having a relationship with God. Afterwards, we will spend our entire lives learning and applying the Fruit of the Spirit, and it is NEVER complete without learning the Acts of the Flesh as well. The Holy Spirit will renew the Christian's mind, but will NEVER enable his or her sins.

God the Father is the responsible Father towards His children. The opposite of a loving father is one who spoils his children and fails to discipline them for their bad behaviour. Permissive parenting only produces children with poor self-discipline, low emotional intelligence, lower achievement, and even criminal behaviour.[3][4][5]

In Citation #5, God displays the following strategies towards His children:

• Develop a list of basic household rules. In order for your kids to know how they are supposed to behave, they need to clearly understand what your expectations are.

The Ten Commandments are the most famous example of God's household rules (Deuteronomy 5:6-21, Exodus 20:1-17). A truly universal code of laws for any healthy society.

• Follow through. This can be the greatest struggle for parents who tend to be permissive, but it is important. Try to be firm and consistent, but still loving. Help your kids understand why such rules are important by providing adequate feedback and explanations, but still make sure that consequences are in place.

God is unchanging. He is the same today as He was yesterday and ALWAYS will be (Hebrews 13:8, Malachi 3:6).

• Make sure your kids understand the penalty of breaking the rules. Guidelines are useless unless there is some sort of consequence for failing to follow them. Time-outs and losing privileges are logical consequences for breaking the household rules.

• Reward good behavior. Try to catch your children being good and allow special privileges when they display these actions.

For the ancient Israelites, if they obeyed God, they prospered. If they disobeyed God, they suffered. This is God the Father setting boundaries and enforcing accordingly (Deuteronomy 29:1-29, Malachi 3:6-12).

As G.I. Joe would say, "And knowing is half the battle!"[1][2]


~2 Timothy 3:15-17 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - King James Version
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~1 John 1:5-10 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - King James Version
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~Galatians 5:13-26 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5 - King James Version
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1. "Knowing is half the battle": Here's What It Truly Means
2. Quotes from "G.I. Joe"
3. Prevention & Early Intervention | Youth.gov
4. Parenting Styles and Child Behavior — Psychology In Action
5. Are You a Permissive Parent?

I do not disagree with you. I argue that sin should not be the focus, not that the Church should ignore sin.

 

[Thomas White]

And through whom will the Holy Spirit speak?

What kind of "finding" and "loving" is this? Does not love teach us not to do evil? Do we not find Christ by forsaking this world? Teach me how to love God and still sin, if you can.

Us, of course. The rocks if He so chooses. Anything. We show the them love through our actions. We tell them about Christ and how much He loves us. We introduce them to Scripture. God will handle the salvation part. When a person learns to love and receive love, they have no need for sin.

 

[Thomas White]

The emphasis should be on learning what Christ's words mean, and having his doctrine. That is so important, and the most lacking.

He summarizes His doctrine well: Love God. Love your neighbor.

 

[Thomas White]

The Bible is not what Jesus left us when He ascended to heaven. He left us the church He created. That church is still here, being guided and protected by the holy Spirit.

Jesus left us the Holy Spirit. The Church is the product of Jesus's love. The Church is not restricted to the Catholic Church. The Church is a living, breathing body of believers that crosses denominations.

 

[Thomas White]

It is the inerrant word of God, of course. But, when Jesus ascended to heaven, the Bible did not fall from the sky with a loud voice that said, "read this, and whatever you think it means, is what it means."



Didn't Jesus say, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."(?) Against what? The church He created. If there is corruption and sin by the leaders, that is because of their free will, don't you think? But the teachings of the church He created is protected and guided by the holy Spirit.



Yes, because, how would a Bible sin?



Pope Pius IX, who is a successor to St. Peter, (it is called apostolic succession) in 1854 defined it, even though it was already widely accepted as truth.




Where does the Bible say it is the sole source of faith and instruction?

Define widely accepted...

 

[Dave L]

No. They're His guidelines. It would be hard for Him to stray from His "guidelines."

Can you provide examples?

 

[Thomas White]

Can you provide examples?

Of what?

 

[Dave L]

Of what?

Jesus using your approach about sin.

 

[Thomas White]

Jesus using your approach about sin.

What do you think my approach to sin is?

 

[Dave L]

What do you think my approach to sin is?

So many churches spend all their time focusing on sin and believers shouldn't sin. It's a pointless focus."

Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

Our ministry should have one focus: love. Let the world know we are Christians by our love, not our rulebooks. If we love God and love one another, we will detest sin and be a lot happier.

Jesus didn't condemn the world and neither should we. Stop focusing on sin, and start loving like Jesus."

All of the above?

 

[Rene Loup]

I do not disagree with you. I argue that sin should not be the focus, not that the Church should ignore sin.

I STRONGLY recommend reading, studying, and KNOWING Scripture on a daily basis. The Holy Bible has MUCH to say about sin and the consequences of it. If sin was not one of the main concerns, then the Holy Bible would not have used it to justify sending the Lord Jesus Christ to die on the cross for us.

The following Scriptures applies to ALL OF US, INCLUDING MYSELF!!!

31 So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to obey my teaching, you are truly my followers. 32 Then you will know the truth. And the truth will make you free.”

~John 8:31-32 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: John 8 - King James Version
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The Promise of the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, you will do the things I command. 16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper. He will give you this Helper to be with you forever. 17 The Helper is the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him because it does not see him or know him. But you know him. He lives with you and he will be in you.

18 “I will not leave you all alone like orphans. I will come back to you. 19 In a little while the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you will live, too. 20 On that day you will know that I am in my Father. You will know that you are in me and I am in you. 21 He who knows my commands and obeys them is the one who loves me. And my Father will love him who loves me. I will love him and will show myself to him.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you plan to show yourself to us, but not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered, “If anyone loves me, then he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me does not obey my teaching. This teaching that you hear is not really mine. It is from my Father, who sent me.

25 “I have told you all these things while I am with you. 26 But the Helper will teach you everything. He will cause you to remember all the things I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name.

27 “I leave you peace. My peace I give you. I do not give it to you as the world does. So don’t let your hearts be troubled. Don’t be afraid. 28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going, but I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you should be happy that I am going back to the Father because he is greater than I am. 29 I have told you this now, before it happens. Then when it happens, you will believe. 30 I will not talk with you much longer. The ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me. 31 But the world must know that I love the Father. So I do exactly what the Father told me to do.

“Come now, let us go.

~John 14:15-31 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: John 14 - King James Version
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1 Before God and Jesus Christ I give you a command. Christ Jesus is the One who will judge all who are living and all who have died. Jesus has a kingdom, and he is coming again. So I give you this command: 2 Preach the Good News. Be ready at all times. Tell people what they need to do, tell them when they are wrong, and encourage them. Do these things with great patience and careful teaching. 3 The time will come when people will not listen to the true teaching. They will find more and more teachers who are pleasing to them, teachers who say the things they want to hear. 4 They will stop listening to the truth. They will begin to follow the teaching in false stories. 5 But you should control yourself at all times. When troubles come, accept them. Do the work of telling the Good News. Do all the duties of a servant of God.

6 My life is being given as an offering to God. The time has come for me to leave this life. 7 I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. 8 Now, a crown is waiting for me. I will get that crown for being right with God. The Lord is the judge who judges rightly, and he will give me the crown on that Day. He will give that crown not only to me but to all those who have waited with love for him to come again.

~2 Timothy 4:1-8 (ICB)

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False Teachers
1 There used to be false prophets among God’s people, just as there are now. And you will have some false teachers in your group. They will secretly teach things that are wrong—teachings that will cause people to be lost. They will even refuse to accept the Master, Jesus, who bought their freedom. And so they will quickly destroy themselves. 2 Many will follow their evil ways and say evil things about the Way of truth. 3 Those false teachers only want your money. So they will use you by telling you what is not true. But God has already judged them guilty. And they will not escape the One who will destroy them.

4 When angels sinned, God did not let them go free without punishment. God sent them to hell and put them in caves of darkness. They are being held there to be judged. 5 And God punished the evil people who lived long ago. He brought a flood to the world that was full of people who were against him. But God saved Noah and seven other people with him. Noah was a man who preached about being right with God. 6 And God also punished the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. He burned those cities until there was nothing left but ashes. He made those cities an example to show what will happen to those who are against God. 7 But God saved Lot from those cities. Lot, a good man, was troubled because of the sinful behavior of evil people. 8 (Lot was a good man, but he lived with evil people every day. His good heart was hurt by the evil things that he saw and heard.) 9 And so the Lord knows how to save those who serve him. He will save them when troubles come. And the Lord will hold evil people and punish them, while waiting for the Judgment Day. 10 That punishment is especially for those who live by doing the evil things their sinful selves want, and for those who hate the Lord’s authority.

These false teachers do anything they want and brag about it. They are not afraid to say bad things about the glorious angels. 11 The angels are much stronger and more powerful than false teachers. But even the angels do not accuse them with insults before the Lord. 12 But these men say bad things about what they do not understand. They are like animals that act without thinking. These animals are born to be caught and killed. And, like wild animals, these false teachers will be destroyed. 13 They have caused many people to suffer; so they themselves will suffer. That is their pay for what they have done. They take pleasure in doing evil things openly. So they are like dirty spots and stains among you. They bring shame to you in the meals that you eat together. 14 Every time they look at a woman they want her. Their desire for sin is never satisfied. They lead weak people into the trap of sin. They have taught their hearts to be selfish. God will punish them. 15 These false teachers left the right road and lost their way. They followed the way that Balaam went. Balaam was the son of Beor, who loved being paid for doing wrong. 16 But a donkey told Balaam that he was sinning. And the donkey is an animal that cannot talk. But the donkey spoke with a man’s voice and stopped the prophet’s crazy thinking.

17 Those false teachers are like rivers that have no water. They are like clouds blown by a storm. A place in the blackest darkness has been kept for them. 18 They brag with words that mean nothing. By their evil desires they lead people into the trap of sin. They lead away people who are just beginning to escape from other people who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are not free. They are slaves of things that will be destroyed. For a person is a slave of anything that controls him. 20 They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. 21 Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way. That would be better than to know the right way and then to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them. 22 What they did is like this true saying: “A dog eats what it throws up.” And, “After a pig is washed, it goes back and rolls in the mud.”

~2 Peter 2:1-22 (ICB)

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The Last Days
1 Remember this! There will be many troubles in the last days. 2 In those times people will love only themselves and money. They will brag and be proud. They will say evil things against others. They will not obey their parents. People will not be thankful or be the kind of people God wants. 3 They will not have love for others. They will refuse to forgive others and will speak bad things. They will not control themselves. They will be cruel and will hate what is good. 4 In the last days, people will turn against their friends. They will do foolish things without thinking. They will be conceited and proud. They will love pleasure. They will not love God. 5 They will continue to act as if they serve God, but they will not really serve God. Stay away from those people. 6 Some of them go into homes and get control of weak women who are full of sin. They are led to sin by the many evil desires they have. 7 Those women always try to learn new teachings, but they are never able to understand the truth fully. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres were against Moses, these people are against the truth. They are people whose thinking has been confused. They have failed in trying to follow the faith. 9 But they will not be successful in what they do. Everyone will see that they are foolish. That is what happened to Jannes and Jambres.

~2 Timothy 3:1-9 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - King James Version
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[AubreyM]

Does truth speak to heart of the matter?

Are we able to teach these things to others who are willing to listen at least?

Faith comes by hearing and hearing of the word of God or something like that.

Just read these things and what do they speak to you in your heart?

It’s been cut down a little bit but just read and you’ll see we are all guilty of these things, but if we focus on the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ these things will melt away, from us, though still being there.

Every day we make a choice, if you are going to teach on sin, teach on this for others to see what we as humans are capable of and what happens when take the focus on our selves and place our eyes and mind on heavenly things.

There many more of these types of things spelt of in Colossians 3: where tells us even more of what happens when we take our eyes of the flesh and on the spirit,


“The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires.

These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions.

But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses.

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.

Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

There is no law against these things!

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.

Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17-26‬ ‭NLT‬‬
Galatians 5:17-26

 

[AubreyM]

A lot of people question themselves based on them being taught they are not good enough for God, and the beat themselves over it because of it, please understand that.

People will focus on sin so much they miss out on the joys of Christ Jesus and the fact he loved them just as they were yet many rejected him, God loves and cares about everyone.

No matter what place they are in their lives, now back in the New Testament age that once was things were a little bit different and things need to be kept in context and really explained while going through.

The truth is God does love as you are right now in and through all of your mistakes and desires to have a relationship with you and to talk and pray and love him, and there are so many treasures to find in the Bible about this love for you that He has given freely, just to look at Jesus Christ the Son of God, who died for you.

Look at how God seen his son die for you yet raised him up again because of it.

He is going to do the same for you because of your belief, trust, and God given faith.

Don’t trust human wisdom, trust in God and his wisdom, spiritual understanding and in knowing Gods will.

Grow in knowledge, grow in spiritual understanding and grow in wisdom that is Christ Jesus, the Lord.

 

[JMV]

So many churches spend all their time focusing on sin and believers shouldn't sin. It's a pointless focus.

Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

Our ministry should have one focus: love. Let the world know we are Christians by our love, not our rulebooks. If we love God and love one another, we will detest sin and be a lot happier.

Jesus didn't condemn the world and neither should we. Stop focusing on sin, and start loving like Jesus.

"8/25/05 From YahuShua HaMashiach, Our Lord and Savior
The Word of The Lord Spoken to Timothy
For The Lord’s Little Flock, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear

Thus says The Lord: It is the penitent man who shall know God, and penitent you must be; die to yourselves daily. Cast off the skin of this world and walk with Me as I am, and not as you would have Me be.
Beloved ones, do you long to obey? Then obey. Do you wish to stay clean? Then stay clean. Doubt is your enemy, doubt is a stone of stumbling at your feet. For I tell you the truth, one whose faith has come to completion, having received the full revelation of who I am, will not sin. For only the face of The Holy One is before their eyes.
Beloved ones, only One is without sin, The Son of Man. Yet the desire to sin is still within you, and now also The Truth, and so the battle rages. Therefore, beware. For doubt leads to disobedience, and to disobey God is sin, and the penalty of sin is death. Yet I have overcome death, having written your name in the Book of Life from the very foundation of the world. What is left then? Only the death of sin itself, and the passing away of death.
Beloved, cast off your sins, depart quickly from temptation, and to the accuser turn a deaf ear. For I tell you the truth, evil has lost its grip on the redeemed... Therefore hear My words, and also do them; give heed to My speech, and embrace all I have given you; drink deeply from this cup, and be created anew, says The Lord your Redeemer."

 

[Thomas White]

So many churches spend all their time focusing on sin and believers shouldn't sin. It's a pointless focus."

Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

Our ministry should have one focus: love. Let the world know we are Christians by our love, not our rulebooks. If we love God and love one another, we will detest sin and be a lot happier.

Jesus didn't condemn the world and neither should we. Stop focusing on sin, and start loving like Jesus."

All of the above?

I'm not sure why you believe that to be counter to what Jesus taught.

Matthew 22:36-40: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

 

[Thomas White]

I STRONGLY recommend reading, studying, and KNOWING Scripture on a daily basis. The Holy Bible has MUCH to say about sin and the consequences of it. If sin was not one of the main concerns, then the Holy Bible would not have used it to justify sending the Lord Jesus Christ to die on the cross for us.

The following Scriptures applies to ALL OF US, INCLUDING MYSELF!!!


~John 8:31-32 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: John 8 - King James Version
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~John 14:15-31 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: John 14 - King James Version
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~2 Timothy 4:1-8 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 4 - King James Version
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~2 Peter 2:1-22 (ICB)

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~2 Timothy 3:1-9 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - King James Version
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God did not send Jesus because of sin. He sent Jesus because of love. Jesus very clearly stated that.

 

[Rene Loup]

God did not send Jesus because of sin. He sent Jesus because of love. Jesus very clearly stated that.

Please provide at least two or three pieces of Scripture to back that claim up. Please and thank you.

 

[Thomas White]

Please provide at least two or three pieces of Scripture to back that claim up. Please and thank you.

Straight from Jesus's mouth:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

He literally says that God gave His son because He loves the world.

 

[Rene Loup]

Straight from Jesus's mouth:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

He literally says that God gave His son because He loves the world.

My advice: Try to quote the ENTIRE passage instead of random verses, preferably with links to the sources. Context is EVERYTHING. Otherwise, it WILL be taken as cherry-picking,[1][2] especially in the face of overwhelming evidence against your claim. If anyone resorts to dishonesty in spreading God's truth, that only amounts to Pious Fraud[6][7] and is condemned by Scripture (Luke 16:1-15, Proverbs 6:16-19, Romans 3:7-8).

REMEMBER: Everyone on this website has access to Bibles too.[3][4][5]

Jesus and Nicodemus
1 There was a man named Nicodemus who was one of the Pharisees. He was an important Jewish leader. 2 One night Nicodemus came to Jesus. He said, “Teacher, we know that you are a teacher sent from God. No one can do the miracles you do, unless God is with him.”

3 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth. Unless you are born again, you cannot be in God’s kingdom.”

4 Nicodemus said, “But if a man is already old, how can he be born again? He cannot enter his mother’s body again. So how can he be born a second time?”

5 But Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth. Unless you are born from water and the Spirit, you cannot enter God’s kingdom. 6 A person’s body is born from his human parents. But a person’s spiritual life is born from the Spirit. 7 Don’t be surprised when I tell you, ‘You must all be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wants to go. You hear the wind blow. But you don’t know where the wind comes from or where it is going. It is the same with every person who is born from the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus asked, “How can all this be possible?”

10 Jesus said, “You are an important teacher in Israel. But you still don’t understand these things? 11 I tell you the truth. We talk about what we know. We tell about what we have seen. But you don’t accept what we tell you. 12 I have told you about things here on earth, but you do not believe me. So surely you will not believe me if I tell you about the things of heaven! 13 The only one who has ever gone up to heaven is the One who came down from heaven—the Son of Man.

14 “Moses lifted up the snake in the desert. It is the same with the Son of Man. The Son of Man must be lifted up too. 15 Then everyone who believes in him can have eternal life.

16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son. God gave his Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to judge the world guilty, but to save the world through him. 18 He who believes in God’s Son is not judged guilty. He who does not believe has already been judged guilty, because he has not believed in God’s only Son. 19 People are judged by this fact: I am the Light from God that has come into the world. But men did not want light. They wanted darkness because they were doing evil things. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light. He will not come to the light because it will show all the evil things he has done. 21 But he who follows the true way comes to the light. Then the light will show that the things he has done were done through God.”

~John 3:1-21 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: John 3 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: John 3 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: John 3 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: John 3 - International Children’s Bible

Based on the ENTIRE CONTEXT of this passage, why did God send His only Begotten Son to die on the cross for us?

What makes us guilty and evil? Why or why not?

Again, please back up your claims with at least two or three pieces of Scripture. Otherwise, I am going to walk away from this conversation. Please and thank you.

1. Cherry Picking
   
2. Cherry Picking Data | Science Exposed
3. BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.
4. Christian Forums
5. Online Bible
6. What does pious fraud mean?
7. Pious fraud

On May 1, 2021, at roughly 12:10 AM Eastern Time, I have added Scripture to these disclaimers, and am planning to continue doing so (John 13:1-17, Luke 16:1-15, Matthew 7:13-29). My apologies, I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness.

On April 10, 2021, at roughly 12:30 AM Eastern Time, this post has been cleaned up to improve the quality of writing, and to remove all potentially offensive language breaking CF and Biblical rules. My apologies, I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness.