Pleasure Vs. Sin

[AnglicanPeace]

I'm confused about what causes suffering: pleasure seeking or sin? Drinking coffee causes me suffering (I'm quitting smoking). But it's not a sin. I'm not really even sure what sins are?

 

[Sabertooth]

Certain behaviors (and motivations) are sinful, but Sin is a condition that we are all born into.

1. Not all pleasure or pleasure-seeking is sinful. It is only so when you have to sin in order to acquire that pleasure.
2. Solving sinful behavior doesn't fix your Sin condition. Even if you could (stop the behavior), you would remain condemned for the latter (condition). See my LINK for more info.

Restated, we're not sinners because we sin; we sin because we are Sinners (that is, inclined to sin).

 

[Sabertooth]

Drinking coffee causes me suffering (I'm quitting smoking).

I'm not sure what you are asking, here. Drinking coffee is not particularly sinful. If it makes you uncomfortable, it just makes you uncomfortable.

I avoid coffee, too, but not for any ethical reasons. I just don't like how it tastes.

 

[Serving Zion]

I'm confused about what causes suffering: pleasure seeking or sin? Drinking coffee causes me suffering (I'm quitting smoking). But it's not a sin. I'm not really even sure what sins are?

When I first really began to understand what sin is, it was after I heard about the Seven Deadly Sins for the first time. When I looked it up on Wikipedia, there was this sentence that suddenly made sense to me:

"According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, a mortal, or deadly sin, is believed to destroy the life of grace and charity within a person".

.. and as soon as I read that, I suddenly got a new eureka! It must have been God's work, culminating after I had been wondering why I was being misunderstood in everything that I said.. and it suddenly made sense to me for the life I was living at the time.. that I was lacking a certain quality of grace. Not only that, but it suggests that the qualities of grace and charity are natural to a human, in the absence of sin!

So, the Seven Deadly Sins are ways of identifying the human's bad behaviour that causes the human to lose the qualities of grace and charity - the things that make a human godly: Pride, Lust, Envy, Sloth, Wrath, Greed, Gluttony.

Whenever there is a problem, I tend to look at the situation that way to see who it is that is in the wrong: who is acting in the way that they shouldn't be - is someone doing greed, or is someone prideful or maybe they can't be bothered doing what they should be doing.

So as soon as I realised how powerful that knowledge is, I made a little brochure to share with people:

View media item 61021View media item 61022View media item 61024View media item 61023

 

[Serving Zion]

Not according to the Nicene Creed, the standard of this forum.

I can't see evidence of your claim in the creed. Can you please provide a quote of the words you are claiming support from?

 

[royal priest]

Baptist Catechism:
Q. What is sin?
A. Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God

1 John 3:4
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

 

[Sabertooth]

Can you please provide a quote of the words you are claiming support from?

My bad. I thought that Original Sin had been included in the creed.

(Do Anglicans, EOs & Catholics not subscribe to OS?)

 

[Serving Zion]

My bad. I thought that Original Sin had been included in the creed.

(Do Anglicans, EOs & Catholics not subscribe in OS?)

Ah, that's good, thanks for confirming that

(Original Sin as in "Ancestral/Inherited" sin is not inextricably biblical, so the debate of nature vs nurture goes on..)

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I'm confused about what causes suffering: pleasure seeking or sin? Drinking coffee causes me suffering (I'm quitting smoking). But it's not a sin. I'm not really even sure what sins are?

The best advice any of us can give is "walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh." If you are walking with God, He will help you understand if you are doing wrong and then stop it, ask forgiveness, and don't do it again! Sometimes, some of us are a little more hardheaded and it takes a few go arounds of that cycle (and the pain associated with it) to learn.

I would suggest not worrying so much about the negative, but on the positive. For instance:

You can think of your walk with God as a minefield where you don't even know if you may be sinning and booom--you're done.

Or you can think you are walking in a relationship with God and He is guiding you through that minefield of things that can damage your life and the life of others around you. So, it is in everyone's best interests that you follow Him as closely as possible--not by following a written set of rules, but by listening when He speaks. If God tells you not do something and you do it, it is sin; so don't. If God tells you to do something and you don't, it is sin; so do it. If your conscience convicts you and you do it anyway, you are sinning; so stop! According to Scripture, anything not done in faith is sin; so, if in doubt, don't do it! Why? Because Daddy knows best and wants the best for us and those around us!

For instance, drinking caffeine (a drug) may not be a sin for everyone. But, for me, it is; because God explicitly told me not to do it. You would think, because I love God, that the first time He told me that I would completely give up caffeine forever and ever. Yep, you would think. But, when the pressures of what I was doing on a daily basis convinced me that I needed caffeine to function, I justified my sin. God get me prove the damage to myself and I eventually was able to weed it back out. You would think I learned my lesson. But, noooooooo! Another situation arose where I felt like I just needed the extra boost. Again, I crossed the bounds that God had given me, rationalizing/justifying that God put me in the situation and had to know I would need the extra energy. And, bam! I just did it to myself again. This is like the 3rd time in about 16 years of walking with him that I have had to overcome caffeine! But, God is patient with me and I am hoping this is the last time He has to re-teach me on this topic, because that willful choice I make affects other things in my walk with God and my temporal life here that I don't want or need to have affected negatively.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm confused about what causes suffering: pleasure seeking or sin? Drinking coffee causes me suffering (I'm quitting smoking). But it's not a sin. I'm not really even sure what sins are?

When you hear the truth, you will feel convicted, for being a sinner,
if
both you are seeking truth and seeking God's Kingdom,
and
if God is drawing you to Himself.

He will not draw anyone to Himself without dealing with their sin.

And He is not vague or general about sin when He convicts - always specific.

 

[Andrew77]

I'm confused about what causes suffering: pleasure seeking or sin? Drinking coffee causes me suffering (I'm quitting smoking). But it's not a sin. I'm not really even sure what sins are?

A sin is simply doing something that is against what G-d says.
Lying is a sin. Having sex with someone you are not married to is a sin. Cutting and mutilating yourself, is a sin.

Suffering can be caused by doing what is right, or doing what is wrong. Suffering can also be caused by doing nothing that is right or wrong.

We live in a screwed up world. Lighting can strike you, and you could be walking out of church at the time. Your suffering is the result of a screwed up world, not because of anything you did, good or bad.

Pleasure seeking is generally used in a negative context. But eating can give you pleasure, even though eating is good. Of course eating too much, can give you pleasure, and that would be bad.

So pleasure seeking, is not inherently good or bad, it depends on the context.

If I seek pleasure in having sex with my wife, that is good. If I seek pleasure in having sex with a girl I am not married to, that is sin and is bad.

Does any of this help?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

A sin is simply doing something that is against what G-d says.
Lying is a sin.

footnote for research: see how often a man or woman of God lied in Scripture, and the incident was not and is not considered by God to be a sin .
True , there are no liars in heaven in the next life,
but telling a lie, however odd it seems to untrained human ears,
does not make a man a liar. Again, see this IN SCRIPTURE where it happens. Online websites variously list the examples.

The Bible Smugglers especially take note of this.