Please release me, let me go...

[LutheranHawkeye]

If by different you mean that we don't place it on equal footing with the scriptures then yes, we do view it differently. But we view the confessions as being biblical and scriptural, contrary to your belief that we don't.

Your statement above insinuates that we are not confessional. Are you really jumping on the Insult the WELS Bandwagon, Rev? I expected better from you.

It seems that this has turned into a we think everyone hates us thread. Should we move this to another thread, where we can have a debate about WELS and LCMS differences?

 

[DaRev]

If by different you mean that we don't place it on equal footing with the scriptures then yes, we do view it differently. But we view the confessions as being biblical and scriptural, contrary to your belief that we don't.

We went round and round about this on this forum many months ago and it was determined that the WELS do not hold the same quia subscription to the Confessions (that they are thoroughly Scriptural and as such useful in explaining doctrine and practice) as do the LCMS and other Confessional synods. This is based upon what you and other WELS members here have stated.

Your statement above insinuates that we are not confessional. Are you really jumping on the Insult the WELS Bandwagon, Rev? I expected better from you.

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm merely stating facts. It is not my intent to be insulting to anyone.

But in the same tone, your statement above insinuating that the LCMS holds the Confessions "on par" with the Scriptures, which you know better, could be seen as a jab. I guess it matters from whom it comes whether or not it's considered an "insult".

As for me, I choose not to enter into this war. I was just stating a fact, that's all.

 

[seajoy]

It seems that this has turned into a we think everyone hates us thread. Should we move this to another thread, where we can have a debate about WELS and LCMS differences?

Why does it have to be a debate? There are differences...we are 2 different Synods....nothing much to debate there. Why not a discussion instead? Maybe we wouldn't feel so hated then, as you say.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

We went round and round about this on this forum many months ago and it was determined that the WELS do not hold the same quia subscription to the Confessions (that they are thoroughly Scriptural and as such useful in explaining doctrine and practice) as do the LCMS and other Confessional synods. This is based upon what you and other WELS members here have stated.

You must've been having a different conversation then, because I don't remember any WELS people, myself included, saying that the confessions are not useful in explaining doctrine and practice. What I HAVE said is that when I'm dealing with non-Lutherans, I'm more apt to take out a bible rather than the confessions.

I'm not insulting anyone. I'm merely stating facts. It is not my intent to be insulting to anyone.

When your facts are wrong, and you've been told such, yet you continue to believe your interpretation, it's an insult. You don't see me running around these forums constantly talking about LCMS not being confessional, even though your synod's president seems to be moving away from the confessionalism that Lutheranism is known for.

But in the same tone, your statement above insinuating that the LCMS holds the Confessions "on par" with the Scriptures, which you know better, could be seen as a jab. I guess it matters from whom it comes whether or not it's considered an "insult".

If you don't hold them as being on-par with scriptures, exactly how DO you hold them?

As for me, I choose not to enter into this war. I was just stating a fact, that's all.

Hah. You chose to enter this "war" the minute you made the comment about "other Confessional Lutheran synods" while discluding the WELS in that statement. You knew exactly what kind of reaction you'd get from that, because it happens every time you post it.

Gloat all you want, Rev...I see where LCMS is headed. While you're sitting here crowing about how the WELS has it all wrong, your synod is headed down the same path that ELCA has headed down, and we've all seen where that ends up. When our synod had issues with our former president, the pastors and laymen took a stand - we didn't just sit and whimper about it. We have our own issues in our synod, to be sure, but they are financial and not doctrinal, thank God. I continually pray for the LCMS so it's saddening to see such callous remarks like we're not confessional from the ranks of the LCMS ministers.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

You must've been having a different conversation then, because I don't remember any WELS people, myself included, saying that the confessions are not useful in explaining doctrine and practice. What I HAVE said is that when I'm dealing with non-Lutherans, I'm more apt to take out a bible rather than the confessions.



When your facts are wrong, and you've been told such, yet you continue to believe your interpretation, it's an insult. You don't see me running around these forums constantly talking about LCMS not being confessional, even though your synod's president seems to be moving away from the confessionalism that Lutheranism is known for.



If you don't hold them as being on-par with scriptures, exactly how DO you hold them?



Hah. You chose to enter this "war" the minute you made the comment about "other Confessional Lutheran synods" while discluding the WELS in that statement. You knew exactly what kind of reaction you'd get from that, because it happens every time you post it.

Gloat all you want, Rev...I see where LCMS is headed. While you're sitting here crowing about how the WELS has it all wrong, your synod is headed down the same path that ELCA has headed down, and we've all seen where that ends up. When our synod had issues with our former president, the pastors and laymen took a stand - we didn't just sit and whimper about it. We have our own issues in our synod, to be sure, but they are financial and not doctrinal, thank God. I continually pray for the LCMS so it's saddening to see such callous remarks like we're not confessional from the ranks of the LCMS ministers.

Wow, Becky, someone needs to go smell the Easter Lillys. War, really? Someone might stay with the issues. It's trying to help someone understand why they are not be very accepted by WELS. I don't think your constant agitation in this matter has been too encouraging for anyone wanting to look into making WELS a church home.

Yes, I will sign off in peace. It's not my peace, or yours. It is the Lord's peace He offers to all of us, smirky or not. I accpet it and offer it.

Peace,

Cos

 

[seajoy]

Wow, Becky, someone needs to go smell the Easter Lillys. War, really? Someone might stay with the issues. It's trying to help someone understand why they are not be very accepted by WELS. I don't think your constant agitation in this matter has been too encouraging for anyone wanting to look into making WELS a church home.

Yes, I will sign off in peace. It's not my peace, or yours. It is the Lord's peace He offers to all of us, smirky or not. I accpet it and offer it.

Peace,

Cos

Go smell the Easter Lillys? C'mon Cos, if someone said that to you, would you settle down?

If Beckie stands up for her synod, why does that mean no one would ever want to join it? Your continued use of smirky is annoying and I think you are enjoying antagonizing. This is hurtful to those of us who are WELS.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Wow, Becky, someone needs to go smell the Easter Lillys. War, really? Someone might stay with the issues. It's trying to help someone understand why they are not be very accepted by WELS. I don't think your constant agitation in this matter has been too encouraging for anyone wanting to look into making WELS a church home.

Yes, I will sign off in peace. It's not my peace, or yours. It is the Lord's peace He offers to all of us, smirky or not. I accpet it and offer it.

Peace,

Cos

You're doing a really poor job of explaining, Cos, and you're giving the WELS a bad reputation that she doesn't deserve. If you are WELS, I'd suggest going to your pastor post haste and asking for a refresher course on our doctrine. If you're not WELS, well, you might just want to stop trying to "explain" something you don't understand.

It's hypocritical for you to continual to bash the WELS and think that you're spreading the Lord's peace around.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Gloat all you want, Rev...I see where LCMS is headed. While you're sitting here crowing about how the WELS has it all wrong, your synod is headed down the same path that ELCA has headed down, and we've all seen where that ends up. When our synod had issues with our former president, the pastors and laymen took a stand - we didn't just sit and whimper about it. We have our own issues in our synod, to be sure, but they are financial and not doctrinal, thank God. I continually pray for the LCMS so it's saddening to see such callous remarks like we're not confessional from the ranks of the LCMS ministers.

Couldn't talking about theology and doctrinal matters be considered fellowship? If I post a prayer could you pray something an LCMS member composed?

 

[seajoy]

You see where the LCMS is headed? We have a President who likes the CG movement, he'll be gone soon. So what? After this discussion I hope we don't end up where the WELS is. Small, bitter, and legalistic. Stude cannot receive Holy Communion in a WELS church for 1 YEAR because he is LCMS. I know that Jim tried to talk me down from debating and labeling the WELS as legalistic, but I'm sorry it is. I've even heard some people say that the WELS is as close to you can come to modern day Pharisees.

Well, you can't get much more mean-spirited than that. Thanks for calling me a pharisee. If this is what the LCMS is about...wow! I never realized the hatred for our synod until now.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

MOD HAT ON

Please be mindful of these rule:

Messages posted to this board must be polite and free of personal attacks, threats, and crude or sexually-explicit language, rude comments and innuendo.

Flaming
You will not insult, belittle, mock, or personally attack other members or groups of members. Use of derogatory nicknames in reference to other members is prohibited. Don't goad another member or start call-out threads. This flaming rule also applies to public religious figures.

There are other rules that would seem to apply as well; they can be found here:

Christian Forums - FAQ: Christian Forums Rules / Terms of Service

Now, since we know the rules, or if we don't we know where to find them; lets play nice.


MOD HAT OFF.

Mark,
Ecumenical Team Mod.

BTW, we get visitors here. How does this look to them?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Ya know, I hadn't posted here in awhile, what with the move and modding a different area of CF. I come back, and mostly what I see is a lot of anti-WELS sentiment.

I guess my "ilk" isn't wanted in this subforum. Today I've been called a non-confessional Lutheran, smirky, and a pharisee. And why? Because I follow what the bible says.

I want nothing to do with my own home forum anymore. If there was a membership list, I'd take myself off of it. CF would do the WELS a favor if they took our name out of the title of this subforum.

Those of you who decided that harsh words and name-calling against the WELS was okay should be ashamed of yourselves.

I'm done here.

 

[seajoy]

Looks like LH (and others) has gotten what he wanted....and all-LCMS forum. Have fun guys!

 

[dinkime]

Looks like LH (and others) has gotten what he wanted....and all-LCMS forum. Have fun guys!

it can be as they stated, moderate...and we will continue to follow what God has said in His Holy Word and continue to pray for them -- see you on facebook, ladies!

 

[Archaenfel]

*Sigh* ... I turn my back for one day, and look what happens!

One person is having an issue with one congregation, and the battle-lines get drawn in a heartbeat - fracturing what fellowship we're supposed to be having into biting squabbles where people give & take offense quicker than we can blink.

I'm just a little person in LCMS. I have no idea who 'K' is, or what in Holy Hobbiton he's doing that's creating such issues, and I only minimally care. What I do care about is that two groups of people who should be able to peacably co-exist have chosen one person's trials as an excuse to snipe at one another.


Please stop ... you're making me cry, and I have enough things to be sad about already.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Well, you can't get much more mean-spirited than that. Thanks for calling me a pharisee. If this is what the LCMS is about...wow! I never realized the hatred for our synod until now.

I don't think that the WELS is Pharisaic, I just think that by treating an LCMS member like an unbeliever, the WELS churches around Stude are being legalistic. I also had such a strong response because someone said that the LCMS is going down the road of the ELCA, which I honestly don't think will happen. I see no difference in calling a denomination legalistic or on a slippery slope.

 

[DaRev]

You must've been having a different conversation then, because I don't remember any WELS people, myself included, saying that the confessions are not useful in explaining doctrine and practice.

You may be right that you were not part of that discussion. It went round and round and round...

What I HAVE said is that when I'm dealing with non-Lutherans, I'm more apt to take out a bible rather than the confessions.

As do I. The Confessions don't mean much to non-Lutherans.

If you don't hold them as being on-par with scriptures, exactly how DO you hold them?

The way Confessional Lutherans hold them, as being thoroughly Scriptural. That's what is known as a "quia subscription." That's what that means. They are the "normed norm." I still don't know whether or not the WELS holds them as such. Perhaps you can enlighten me so I know better.

Gloat all you want, Rev...I see where LCMS is headed. While you're sitting here crowing about how the WELS has it all wrong, your synod is headed down the same path that ELCA has headed down, and we've all seen where that ends up. When our synod had issues with our former president, the pastors and laymen took a stand - we didn't just sit and whimper about it.

Who's wimpering? Tell me. I'd like to know who you think is wimpering.

There are many of us who are trying to do something about it. I don't choose to leave the synod and stand outside and throw stones like many have done. Some of us want our synod to hold to the doctrines and practices that it officially states.

We have our own issues in our synod, to be sure, but they are financial and not doctrinal, thank God. I continually pray for the LCMS so it's saddening to see such callous remarks like we're not confessional from the ranks of the LCMS ministers.

I don't believe that I ever said that the WELS isn't Confessional. What I said was that based upon previous discussions on this board the WELS does not subscribe to the Confessions the way other Confessional Lutheran synods do, which explains (to me anyway) some of the differences between WELS and LCMS.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

Looks like LH (and others) has gotten what he wanted....and all-LCMS forum. Have fun guys!

Of course I didn't want this. I wanted to start a formal debate thread, aside from Stude's experience, but you guys just didn't want to. I'm sorry. My emotions got the better of me. I criticized Wisconsin, but when Missouri was criticized once I lost it, hypocritical eh? Once again I'm so sorry to all the WELS folks on here.

 

[seajoy]

Of course I didn't want this. I wanted to start a formal debate thread, aside from Stude's experience, but you guys just didn't want to. I'm sorry. My emotions got the better of me. I criticized Wisconsin, but when Missouri was criticized once I lost it, hypocritical eh? Once again I'm so sorry to all the WELS folks on here.

Apology accepted. I'm back now.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

MOD HAT ON

Closing thread pending staff review.


MOD HAT OFF.

Mark,
Ecumenical Team Mod.