PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[Optimax]

Because I'm not worried about that, and I will ignore any reference to it. It is not my concern.

Now this is a very creative way to attempt to dodge a question.

Maybe I will watch and see if it works.

Well, no it is obvious it did not work.

 

[ARBITER01]

I'm sorry but he was physically whipped so it could not have just been a spiritual healing he was referring to for if it was then my sister faked her healing (which would have been a hard thing to do at 9mths of age)

But Oppression is a choice! I was oppressed too....the Holy Spirit pulled me out of that....no demon was cast out! I don't believe that that it can lead to possession of a born again Christian - sorry.

No I don't suppose it is...so let me guess those deliverance ministries made one up?

Maybe you should stop being so condescending

Jesus healed the fever that Peter's mother-in-law had, and that didn't require Him casting out a demon, did it?

nope because she was ill...she didn't have a demon!

Discerning of Spirits is to test the spirits...nothing to do with illnesses since illnesses are pertain to the flesh and sin and nothing more.

sorry?

I would continue this with you, but it seems you are making comments up on the fly that are completely out of context scripturally, and I don't really feel like repeating myself constantly.

I think your trying to base your position on a rather limited Christian experience, especially when I've seen twice that you don't know what some of the gifts of The Spirit do, against some of us who actually operate in more than just tongues.

I understand where your position is, and I disagree with you completely. Now, there should be nothing more to say between us as we have already covered it.

 

[ARBITER01]

Now this is a very creative way to attempt to dodge a question.

Maybe I will watch and see if it works.

Well, no it is obvious it did not work.

I would have answered the question, but it was between her and someone else, and I don't care to be hauled into arguments wrongfully.

 

[Cassidy]

I would continue this with you, but it seems you are making comments up on the fly that are completely out of context scripturally, and I don't really feel like repeating myself constantly.

Fine!

I think your trying to base your position on a rather limited Christian experience, especially when I've seen twice that you don't know what some of the gifts of The Spirit do, against some of us who actually operate in more than just tongues.

Well that's debatable...that's just your opinion. I've based mine on studying and studying this subject to death and I've seen various opinions and put them all up against the word to see which one stood on it's own and which one's crumbled - I've had to you see...you have absolutely no idea where I've come from in regards to the gifts. And I'm still learning. Anyone who thinks they know everything pretaining to any doctrine - is walking on a very slippery slope. To assume that you know everything is to assume that you know nothing and is not open to any direction of the Holy Spirit. Those who aren't teachable, cannot be molded.

As for a limited Christian experience...that may or may not be true, but I have faith that can move mountains....and my foundation has never and will never waver. Either way...I know exactly who I am in Christ and I live it.

I understand where your position is, and I disagree with you completely. Now, there should be nothing more to say between us as we have already covered it.

Fine!

 

[pinetree]

Do bible scholars operate in the gifts of healings?

cough cough..excuse me..

you brought up up the point at onother time,John Gill,a scholar,to try to prove your point..

We saw later ,he,and others agreed with me..

How come now scholars dont matter?

They dont agree with your position..

 

[pinetree]

Now this is a very creative way to attempt to dodge a question.

Maybe I will watch and see if it works.

Well, no it is obvious it did not work.

good point..

I cant believe we have to even debate,such a topic!

There is no scriptural support for this theory at all..

 

[ARBITER01]

cough cough..excuse me..

you brought up up the point at onother time,John Gill,a scholar,to try to prove your point..

We saw later ,he,and others agreed with me..

How come now scholars dont matter?

They dont agree with your position..

I just asked the question, do they operate in the gifts of healings, and the reason I asked that was because of what I was discussing atm with folks.

The answer to that question is no, none of them do, and never have, and that was the point. The gifts of healings didn't change just because Jesus rose from the grave, they still cast out demons by the power of GOD. Those gifts and the others are first and foremost for the body of Christ in GOD's grace and mankind in GOD's mercy.

I mean, it is sort of rediculous when you think about it. Anyone can turn on TBN and watch mass amounts of Christians go up on the stage at one of Benny's crusades and have various types of healings performed to them, from all out demon deliverance to various diseases healed. These are Christians, not just unbelievers. In fact, it is almost always Christians up on stage with him.

Besides that, Christian history is replete with other Christians being healed that way all through the years by some of the greats, from Miss Etter to Lester Sumrall, and that is what the gifts of healings are really for, maintenance of the body of Christ.

And about my position, it is quite solid no matter how many times you say it isn't on here. I've prayed for Christians that were possessed, and even battled things that infested me inside over the years from hard spiritual warfare against witchcraft. So no, your affirmations against my position only serve yourself, they don't have effect on me and what The Holy Spirit has already said to me and showed me about the subject.

 

[Tenebrae]

There is not a nickles worth of scriptural proof coming forth,that a Chritian can be inhabited..

All those stories in the Gospel,when read in proper context,were ALL unsaved people..

Sure,then they got saved,,great!

This is all a bunch of bible bingo,and connecting the dots!

Theres not 20c worth of scripture that conclusively proves that Christians cant be inhabited, or that demons flee at the moment of salvation

Sorry bro, I think you are totally off beam on this one

 

[Tenebrae]

Thats a fair point..

I have often quoted that verse myself,that Jesus said and did more..

But so far,on the thread,we are just seeing the deliverance ministries teachings..

Some of the very supporters of the unwritten doctrine,often quote alot of scripture when talking about other subjects here..

Yet,on this thread,there is an eerie scriptural silence...

Thanks for posting..

That said, I do agree that much of deliverance theology is totally off wack with no basis in scripture.

I think FatherRick generally speaks wisely on this issue

 

[SunnyOne]

The enemy has already been defeated. Christ has thoroughly routed him by His sacrificial death, bodily resurrection, and ascension to power and glory. Satan's condition, since the cross, is described as follows:

He is 'bound': Mark 3:27; Luke 11:20; Revelation 20.

His power is restricted and restrained: 2 Thessalonians 2:6.

He has been rendered 'powerless over believers': Hebrews 2:14.

He is defeated, disarmed, and spoiled: Colossians 2:15; Rev. 12:7; Mark 3:27.

He has fallen and thrown down: Luke 10:18; Rev 12:9.

His kingdom has been replaced by God's: Daniel 7; Luke 11:20.

He was crushed under the foot of early Christians: Romans 16:20.

He has lost authority over Christians: Colossians 1:13

He has been judged: John 16:11.

He cannot touch a Christian: 1 John 5:18.

His works have been destroyed: 1 John 3:8.

He has nothing: John 14:30.

He must flee when resisted: James 4:7

Surely, Satan is alive, but not well on the planet Earth!

His minions, likewise, have been cast out, subject to the authority of Christians, overcome by them, bound in chains, etc (Matthew 10-12; Mark 1:27; Luke 9:1; 10:19; 1 John 4:4; Jude 6; Rev. 12:9). Satan truly is a defeated foe! His power over unbelievers is still great: the whole world lies in the evil one 1 John 5:19; he can take them captive at his will 2 Timothy 2:26. Yet this no longer is true of the believer. Thus the Christian by God's grace (help) can overcome evil and is exhorted to do so Romans 12:21.

 

[pinetree]

Theres not 20c worth of scripture that conclusively proves that Christians cant be inhabited, or that demons flee at the moment of salvation

Sorry bro, I think you are totally off beam on this one

hey,,at least a nickle is less....

Good to see ya friend...

 

[pinetree]

We are now empowered..!

We have power,not spirits of evil..

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.


2 Corinthians 10:4
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

Here also..

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Check this out,Peter was changed,by the baptism.

Acts 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed,

 

[pinetree]

The enemy has already been defeated. Christ has thoroughly routed him by His sacrificial death, bodily resurrection, and ascension to power and glory. Satan's condition, since the cross, is described as follows:

He is 'bound': Mark 3:27; Luke 11:20; Revelation 20.

His power is restricted and restrained: 2 Thessalonians 2:6.

He has been rendered 'powerless over believers': Hebrews 2:14.

He is defeated, disarmed, and spoiled: Colossians 2:15; Rev. 12:7; Mark 3:27.

He has fallen and thrown down: Luke 10:18; Rev 12:9.

His kingdom has been replaced by God's: Daniel 7; Luke 11:20.

He was crushed under the foot of early Christians: Romans 16:20.

He has lost authority over Christians: Colossians 1:13

He has been judged: John 16:11.

He cannot touch a Christian: 1 John 5:18.

His works have been destroyed: 1 John 3:8.

He has nothing: John 14:30.

He must flee when resisted: James 4:7

Surely, Satan is alive, but not well on the planet Earth!

His minions, likewise, have been cast out, subject to the authority of Christians, overcome by them, bound in chains, etc (Matthew 10-12; Mark 1:27; Luke 9:1; 10:19; 1 John 4:4; Jude 6; Rev. 12:9). Satan truly is a defeated foe! His power over unbelievers is still great: the whole world lies in the evil one 1 John 5:19; he can take them captive at his will 2 Timothy 2:26. Yet this no longer is true of the believer. Thus the Christian by God's grace (help) can overcome evil and is exhorted to do so Romans 12:21.

preach it bro!

also..

Often the teachers of this unwritten doctrine,will talk about "entry" of the evil spirits..:o

Through either illness or other means,sin,etc...

But we see God can protect all parts of us..

body,soul, and spirit..

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Sure sounds like God is able to keep us...without fault,and cetainly spirits!
How can spirits come before his presence?

Jude 1:24
To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—

 

[pinetree]

The fact that Paul taught so much about so many things,but never implied that a believer can be inhabited,raises a good point..

Why not?

Because he knew who we were in Christ!

The absence of the instruction,shows that he did not think it it was true..

He took the time to tell about smaller issues head coverings,..why not the topic of Christian inhabitation?

 

[Tobias]

The fact that Paul taught so much about so many things,but never implied that a believer can be inhabited,raises a good point..

Why not?

Because he knew who we were in Christ!

The absence of the instruction,shows that he did not think it it was true..

He took the time to tell about smaller issues head coverings,..why not the topic of Christian inhabitation?

Maybe Paul doesn't address the issue because demons come out of believers just as easily as they do out of non-believers?

Or maybe because Jesus already set the guidelines, explaining how damaging it is to cast demons out of non-believers. The spirits come back, bringing more friends with them, leaving the person in a worse state than before. Perhaps the question then in light of this would be, should we even attempt to cast demons out of the unsaved?

Who does that leave to cast them out of?

 

[Tobias]

Or, once again, must we toss out the examples of what happened with the disciples, along with the teachings of Jesus; because apparently none of it applies to us today?

 

[ARBITER01]

Or, once again, must we toss out the examples of what happened with the disciples, along with the teachings of Jesus; because apparently none of it applies to us today?

No, the examples are sound, it is just folks lately trying to forcibly assert their doctrinal view and persecute those that don't agree.

Jesus never made a difference between who could have their "house swept and placed in good order" when He made that statement. It could be Christians or non-believers, either one.

If it was just unbelievers, then some of the things Paul says don't make a bit of sense. How can we be "ensnared by the wiles of the devil" or need to "recover" from being "taken captive to the will of satan." Ect, ect.

It's really just a false assumption on the part of a few folks that Christians are somehow oblivious to satan's schemes since we are born again. Why is Paul telling us to put on the full armor of GOD then if we are not going to fight against evil spirits and such, and take damage in the process?

It is like anything you see people do on here at times. Someone gets a false doctrinal revelation on something, and they refuse to take the whole council of GOD in to verify it was from GOD, and instead just run with the thought they received and claim it is truth before folks. If they would have cast down that imagination at first instead, then maybe they could have seen the forest from the trees.

 

[pinetree]

kingdom of God is in us..

Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

Can it be divided?


24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[d] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

 

[pinetree]

Colossians 2:15
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

We were crucified with Christ,so this shows that the power of the cross is for us too.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[pinetree]

No, the examples are sound, it is just folks lately trying to forcibly assert their doctrinal view and persecute those that don't agree.

Jesus never made a difference between who could have their "house swept and placed in good order" when He made that statement. It could be Christians or non-believers, either one.

If it was just unbelievers, then some of the things Paul says don't make a bit of sense. How can we be "ensnared by the wiles of the devil" or need to "recover" from being "taken captive to the will of satan." Ect, ect.

It's really just a false assumption on the part of a few folks that Christians are somehow oblivious to satan's schemes since we are born again. Why is Paul telling us to put on the full armor of GOD then if we are not going to fight against evil spirits and such, and take damage in the process?

It is like anything you see people do on here at times. Someone gets a false doctrinal revelation on something, and they refuse to take the whole council of GOD in to verify it was from GOD, and instead just run with the thought they received and claim it is truth before folks. If they would have cast down that imagination at first instead, then maybe they could have seen the forest from the trees.

No one is persecuting...that statement is not needed.

Most are just standing up for sound doctrine.

We cant quote only sometimes..

There is zero proof in the bible of this theory...

In fact there is alot about who we are in Christ!

And our victory!
1 John 4:4
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world






2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

and this..

1 Timothy 1:3
[ Warning Against False Teachers of the Law ] As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer

1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Check out this one,Paul sure though it was important!


2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

And who has not read this one out of Hebrews..



Hebrews 13;9
Be not carried away with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace,not by ceremonial foods,which are of no value to those who eat them.