PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[STRICTLY SCRIPTURE]

Or, once again, must we toss out the examples of what happened with the disciples, along with the teachings of Jesus; because apparently none of it applies to us today?

We must go by the scriptures only.

 

[ARBITER01]

No one is persecuting...that statement is not needed.

Most are just standing up for sound doctrine.

We cant quote only sometimes..

There is zero proof in the bible of this theory...

In fact there is alot about who we are in Christ!

That statement is quite true, and I've already posted scripture proof of Christian possession,..

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and ignorant questionings refuse, knowing that they gender strifes.

2Ti 2:24 And the Lord's servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing,

2Ti 2:25 in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth,

2Ti 2:26 and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.

The Greek is very particular here about recovering. The passage says nothing about unbelievers, in fact, the passage was preceded by Paul talking about believers that error on the resurrection,..

2Ti 2:18 men who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and overthrow the faith of some.

No where in the context of those passages is Paul talking about unbelievers. Besides, unbelievers are not taken captive, they are already captive.

But you and others just try to find some way to refuse the passage no matter what. You want to bend scripture to your doctrine on this instead of ensuring your doctrine fits scripture. You've not looked at such passages to take in the whole council of GOD on the subject.

 

[Tenebrae]

At the same time while there is nothing in the bible that supports the Christians can be demonized theory, there is also nothing that definitively proves that Christians can not be subject to demonic torment.

That said I do believe that much of modern deliverance theology is so totally far of beam its not funny, however I think Father Rick takes a balanced approach to this topic

 

[pinetree]

That statement is quite true, and I've already posted scripture proof of Christian possession,..

The Greek is very particular here about recovering. The passage says nothing about unbelievers, in fact, the passage was preceded by Paul talking about believers that error on the resurrection,..

No where in the context of those passages is Paul talking about unbelievers. Besides, unbelievers are not taken captive, they are already captive.

But you and others just try to find some way to refuse the passage no matter what. You want to bend scripture to your doctrine on this instead of ensuring your doctrine fits scripture. You've not looked at such passages to take in the whole council of GOD on the subject.

naaaa,paul gave his views here..

Galatians 5:19-20

19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are:immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

Colossians 3:5
Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the proponents of the unseen doctrine,say this is true,then the burden of proof is on them..

I think the lack of scriptural proof,is the best proof of all,the fact that it is NOT mentioned,says more than anything..

Why after all,would the bible talk about that which does NOT exist?

Paul talked about women wearing head coverings,not exactly the most important of all issues,yet no teachings about saints having demons?

Hmmmmm,seems like if it were true,Paul would have taught us what to do!

There is so much more in scriprue that says who we are as believers,than taking one phrase out,to try to prove it is about inhabitation..

But ya know what bro...

Since that is the only phrase you got...

I will say,go ahead,,you are welcome to stand on that tiny portion of scripture,that does not prove inhabitation!

 

[pinetree]

match this!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

2 Peter 1:3
[ Making One's Calling and Election Sure ] His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
John 14:30
I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,

John 12:31
Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.
John 12:32
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
1 John 4:4
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world

Seems like victory to me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Cassidy]

1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Seems to me that if anyone believes that a believer can have a demon, MUST think that God drops the ball an awful lot!

 

[pinetree]

That statement is quite true, and I've already posted scripture proof of Christian possession,..

The Greek is very particular here about recovering. The passage says nothing about unbelievers, in fact, the passage was preceded by Paul talking about believers that error on the resurrection,..

No where in the context of those passages is Paul talking about unbelievers. Besides, unbelievers are not taken captive, they are already captive.

But you and others just try to find some way to refuse the passage no matter what. You want to bend scripture to your doctrine on this instead of ensuring your doctrine fits scripture. You've not looked at such passages to take in the whole council of GOD on the subject.

none of that proves inhabitation...really!

 

[Cassidy]

1 John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

And Christ must have dropped the ball on this one too - oops!!

 

[pinetree]

and this..

Colossians 2:15
And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

We were crucified with Christ,so this shows that the power of the cross is for us too.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

 

[pinetree]

and this
The baptism of the Holy Spirt..

We are now empowered..!

We have power,not spirits of evil..

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.


2 Corinthians 10:4
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

Here also..

Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Check this out,Peter was changed,by the baptism.

Acts 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed,

 

[pinetree]

and this..
1 Peter 2:9
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;


How could royal priests,that us ..have demons!?
That does not jive!

 

[pinetree]

and this!
Wow,sure seems like the bible says,He is in us,there is no darkness in Him,and we have been rescued..NOT INHABITED!


Colossians 1:13
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,




1 John 1:5
[ Walking in the light ] This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

1 Thessalonians 5:5
You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

No Darkness...

 

[pinetree]

and this.

kingdom of God is in us..

Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

Can it be divided?


24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[d] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

 

[pinetree]

and this,

We are temples of the Holy Spirit,not a temple of the devil..

We are one spirit with the Lord,not a divided temple..

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17
If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.


Reading this verse below,one must ask..

How then can a believer be united to a demon?


1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

 

[pinetree]

and this
How can spirits live in a saint,who has Jesus in them?

look how the spirits flee,when Jesus is there..

Matthew 8:32
He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.

 

[Tenebrae]

and this..
1 Peter 2:9
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;


How could a royal priest,that us! ..

Have demons! Does not jive!

And you can keep going and going, it may not jibe, it does not however definitively prove that a believer can not be demonically possessed/tormented etc.

IMO if we want to take it literally, there is more evidence that says women should not teach or be in leadership position in churches than there is that say a believer can not be infested

That said, what counts as demon pocession in many modern churches is nothing but terrible self control and lack of personal responsibility for their actions.

I've seen clients who affirm that they are followers of Jesus Christ that have definite spiritual baggage. For the most part they seem like awesome wonderful human beings, theres just that sense of something not right, a sense of something extra, not apart of that person.

I've found this to be the case often when working with people with intellectual disabilities they are most wonderful awesome people with a child like faith, yet there is something that is just not right.

I recall one situation where I was attacked by one of the pastors of my old church. The situation left me feeling like something slimey and malevolent had crawled over my soul, much the same feeling I had when I saw my spirit guides for what they really were. A "woman of God" should not be dealing with the same spirits that I dealt with as a witch.


I dont get it, and I dont understand it, however I've seen too much to not believe that a believer can not be affected by bad spirits

 

[pinetree]

And Christ must have dropped the ball on this one too - oops!!

 

[pinetree]

And you can keep going and going, it may not jibe, it does not however definitively prove that a believer can not be demonically possessed/tormented etc.

IMO if we want to take it literally, there is more evidence that says women should not teach or be in leadership position in churches than there is that say a believer can not be infested

That said, what counts as demon pocession in many modern churches is nothing but terrible self control and lack of personal responsibility for their actions.

I've seen clients who affirm that they are followers of Jesus Christ that have definite spiritual baggage. For the most part they seem like awesome wonderful human beings, theres just that sense of something not right, a sense of something extra, not apart of that person.

I've found this to be the case often when working with people with intellectual disabilities they are most wonderful awesome people with a child like faith, yet there is something that is just not right.

I recall one situation where I was attacked by one of the pastors of my old church. The situation left me feeling like something slimey and malevolent had crawled over my soul, much the same feeling I had when I saw my spirit guides for what they really were. A "woman of God" should not be dealing with the same spirits that I dealt with as a witch.


I dont get it, and I dont understand it, however I've seen too much to not believe that a believer can not be affected by bad spirits

Hello sis..

I totally understand warfare..

And I never mess with peoples experience,it is none of my business,,

But as far as the bible,other that scripture twister,it aint there!

In fact,us holy temples,royal priests,those who have been rescued out of the world,are now clean.

That is you and me!

 

[Optimax]

That statement is quite true, and I've already posted scripture proof of Christian possession,..

The Greek is very particular here about recovering. The passage says nothing about unbelievers, in fact, the passage was preceded by Paul talking about believers that error on the resurrection,..

No where in the context of those passages is Paul talking about unbelievers. Besides, unbelievers are not taken captive, they are already captive.

But you and others just try to find some way to refuse the passage no matter what. You want to bend scripture to your doctrine on this instead of ensuring your doctrine fits scripture. You've not looked at such passages to take in the whole council of GOD on the subject.

OK, since you are so sure that a Christian can be possessed I have some questions.

What are the mechanics or steps that a demon takes to possess a Christian?

What part of a man does the demon inhabit.

Since God is living in us how does the demon evict God in order to move-in?

Since God is stronger that the devil how is the devil able to accomplish that.

Just wondering.

 

[Optimax]

And you can keep going and going, it may not jibe, it does not however definitively prove that a believer can not be demonically possessed/tormented etc.

He can keep going and going and going either because:

1. He is the Energizer Bunny in disguise.

2. He is right and has much scripture to back his position.

HINT: He is not the Bunny.