PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[Elijah2]

scripture anyone?

This is a freefloating,unwritten doctrine!

Teaching that Christians can be possessed or inhabited!

E2,you do post alot of scripture on alot of other topics,when you want to prove your point..

Ok,fine,but here there has not been any,other than bible bingo,connecting the dots,scriptural stretching...and twisting..

Thanks Matey,I understansd we get fiesty together, but it is ok,,we are bros!

I love ya!

Mate, if only you knew how deep this heart thinks, and I guess this grey hair has a lot to do with my expression and thinking.

You are my brother, and so are all on the forum. I haven't any evil thought toward anyone, just love.

But, there are many lessons to be learnt, and many puddles to wade through, and the most important thing of our walk that we continue on through knowing that whatever we do will be judged by our Lord Jesus Christ for our "idle words", and not by "man", other Christians.

And when we feel inferior and inadequate to fulfill HIS TASKS, we can be encouraged, knowing that many of God's greatest servants felt the same, such as Job.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Tobias]

Thank you for your post,it was an interesting read..

But can you please post scripture to prove that a Spirit filled Christian can be possessed,or inhabited..

Thanks!

Simple answers or nothing, eh?

Fine. Try this one then:



John 13:26-27
26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.


We could touch on some of my previous points of whether Judas was backslidden, relinquishing his salvation, or never saved in the first place. But then the same conditions would also apply to a Spirit filled Christian now-a-days. Judas was a disciple of Jesus, one of the twelve, who presumably fit in with all the others praying for the sick and casting out demons along with the rest.

 

[Cassidy]

John 13:26-27
26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

Well we know that he wasn't 'spirit filled'...because the Holy Spirit wasn't poured out until pentecost. And I have no doubt that those believers who had not yet received the infilling of the Holy Spirit could very well have had demons inhabiting - but that's not what's in question here.

Whether he was a believer or not? I vote yes he was and that he was the only believer that was lost, and will only ever be. As Christ said.

 

[pinetree]

Simple answers or nothing, eh?

Fine. Try this one then:



John 13:26-27
26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.


We could touch on some of my previous points of whether Judas was backslidden, relinquishing his salvation, or never saved in the first place. But then the same conditions would also apply to a Spirit filled Christian now-a-days. Judas was a disciple of Jesus, one of the twelve, who presumably fit in with all the others praying for the sick and casting out demons along with the rest.

judas..now there is a real fine example of a Christian..

That was a destiny,so we know he was not a real Christian...

And needless to say,not Spirit filled.

18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[d] and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.'[e] 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection."

 

[Optimax]

Simple answers or nothing, eh?

Fine. Try this one then:



John 13:26-27
26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.


We could touch on some of my previous points of whether Judas was backslidden, relinquishing his salvation, or never saved in the first place. But then the same conditions would also apply to a Spirit filled Christian now-a-days. Judas was a disciple of Jesus, one of the twelve, who presumably fit in with all the others praying for the sick and casting out demons along with the rest.

Judas could not have been born again!

Why?

Although Jesus is preparing to go to the Cross, he has not gone there when this event occurred.

Not only was Judas not born again, neither was John, Peter, James or any of the other disciples at this point.

 

[bobhow1037]

i haven’t read the entire dialog here, but does it seem to anyone that we might be overcomplicating this issue? can a Spirit filled believer be possessed or inhabited?
May be it depends on our definition of possessed or inhabited. Or maybe it doesn’t really matter.
Show me a Christian that doesn’t deal with Demonic influences, and I will show you a liar. Weather that struggle comes from a possession or being inhabited by an evil spirit, or it is just something we have refused to give to Christ yet. I think our argument should not be can a Christian be Possessed but rather how can we as Christians overcome or struggles in order to be a better witness for Christ.
And as far a seeing spirits….I myself have seen some things that I could not explain, I know they weren’t of God….I was in Albania during the summer of 1995. And I saw things with my physical eyes, that if I weren’t a Spirit Filled Christian at the time, It would have caused me to become one real quick.
Possessed: influenced or controlled by something (as an evil spirit, a passion, or an idea)
Inhabited: to be present in or occupy in any manner or form.
These Scriptures came to my remembrance:
Psalms 22:3
2 Corinthians 3:17
2 Corinthians 10:4-5

 

[Cassidy]

I think we are debating this because 'influences' and 'inhabiting' are two totally different things. And those who teach that they are inhabited and in need of deliverance ignore what the bible says about us already being set free.

This is damaging to the Christian (I've seen it many times) because they go through life thinking that everything that goes wrong is because of a demon and therefore they dont' take any responsibility for their own walk in the Lord. They also fail to see that we are still living in the flesh which is and always will be afflicted by sin and everything pertaining to it, until the day of redemption. And the only way to overcome this is to walk in the spirit...NOT have demons cast out!

Adam was influenced - he was not inhabited!!

The whole 'The devil made me do it' thing is old and overused!

 

[RevKidd]

John 13:26-27
26 Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

This verse brings up a very intresting point. What about the next part of the verse...

27 After the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Therefore Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Whom was Jesus speaking too... Judas, or Satan or both.

We read earlier in the chapter...

2 During supper, the devil having already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,

Two things to consider..

1. Is John using metaphor and hyperbole to represent the evil deed that Judas was about to do. John is known for his allegorical writing style, just look at Revelation.

2. Can this be taken as literal text.

 

[Cassidy]

I don't think that text can be taken as having anything to do with a spirit filled Christian since the HOly spirit had not yet been poured out!

 

[ARBITER01]

One of the areas many folks miss is the gifts of The Spirit,..

1Co 14:12 So also ye, since ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may abound unto the edifying of the church.

The Spiritual gifts that The Holy Spirit equips us with are for the edification of The Church foremost. One of those gifts is called "gifts of healings."

Father Rick had posted 4 different types of healings associated with this gift before, and here they are again,..

1. Physical healing-- this is pretty much self explanatory, healing of our physical bodies.

2. Inner (or emotional) healing-- Christ came to heal the broken hearted. There are far more who are wounded emotionally than there are those who need physical healing.

3. Spiritual healing-- this deals with sin (and our will). This arena deals with forgiveness of sin as well as breaking patterns of wrong/sinful behavior. Just because someone is forgiven doesn't automatically mean they know how to change.

4. Deliverance from evil spirits-- scripture gives several examples where sickness is a result of demonization.

Scripture places no limitation on this gift and GOD's usage of it in the assembly. It can deliver saints as well as sinners in all 4 areas, again there is no scripture limitation. So yes, demonization, up to and including possession, will be happening in the assembly to believers and non-believers alike.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes I agree with you about 'healing' gifts. My sister was healed of bacterial meningitis when she was a baby - was miraculous.

But how this is done is praying God's word over the person ...you're praying that they are healed - because that's what the bible says - that we ARE healed. I've seen many healing miracles happen this way...simply by believing that Christ has healed us already...and praying the word of God over them. No one has ever had any demons cast out of them - including my sister who was healed by the power of God - she's now 21 years old and fully functioning

However...sicknesses are not DEMONS - they are sicknesses caused by sin which is still rife in our bodies becasue we are still living in the flesh.

So again I ask.....

Do I inject demons into my children when I vaccinate???

this is a huge question...because one would assume, going by the 'sicknesses are demons' doctrine that any illnesses like polio and tetinus and the like are demons...right?

So when we are to protect our children against these diseases then we are actually injecting a minute amount of the diseases into our children - to build up their antebodies against these diseases...and it works because small pox has been erradicated and polio and tetanus are well on their way....

So when injecting our kids with these diseases - are we then injecting them with demons??? Are we then required to cast the demons out that we just injected?

 

[ARBITER01]

Yes I agree with you about 'healing' gifts. My sister was healed of bacterial meningitis when she was a baby - was miraculous.

The gift is labeled as "gifts of healings" in the Greek,..

1Co 12:9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;

So it has a "plural" application, and Jesus demonstrated the manifold operation of this gift in His ministry, as well as others did before Him and after Him.

But how this is done is praying God's word over the person ...you're praying that they are healed - because that's what the bible says - that we ARE healed. I've seen many healing miracles happen this way...simply by believing that Christ has healed us already...and praying the word of God over them. No one has ever had any demons cast out of them - including my sister who was healed by the power of God - she's now 21 years old and fully functioning

You are describing WOF applications of so-called healing that have no example from Jesus. Jesus did what The Father told Him and showed Him, nothing else. He bore no record of Himself, neither are we to do that either.

Additionally, Peter said we "were" healed, not that we are, and that in relation to spiritual rebirth in that passage of his letter. It had nothing to do with physical healing, never did.

However...sicknesses are not DEMONS - they are sicknesses caused by sin which is still rife in our bodies because we are still living in the flesh.

Sickness can very well be demonic. Paul had a messenger of satan sent against him that caused sickness/weakness in his life.

Just because Jesus rose from the grave doesn't mean that satan cannot touch us now. The body of Christ is ripe with different sicknesses and disease that Jesus dealt with while he was here. The examples are in our midst. Christians are suffering from diseases that Jesus cast demons out of people causing them.


BTW, the topic is not about healing, it is about demonization, and the gifts of healings have never changed in regards to removing them.

 

[pinetree]

One of the areas many folks miss is the gifts of The Spirit,..

The Spiritual gifts that The Holy Spirit equips us with are for the edification of The Church foremost. One of those gifts is called "gifts of healings."

Father Rick had posted 4 different types of healings associated with this gift before, and here they are again,..

Scripture places no limitation on this gift and GOD's usage of it in the assembly. It can deliver saints as well as sinners in all 4 areas, again there is no scripture limitation. So yes, demonization, up to and including possession, will be happening in the assembly to believers and non-believers alike.

I wonder why bible scholars,dont support the view of Christian inhabitation?

 

[ARBITER01]

I wonder why bible scholars,dont support the view of Christian inhabitation?

Do bible scholars operate in the gifts of healings?

 

[Cassidy]

The gift is labeled as "gifts of healings" in the Greek,..

So it has a "plural" application, and Jesus demonstrated the manifold operation of this gift in His ministry, as well as others did before Him and after Him.

Ok

You are describing WOF applications of so-called healing that have no example from Jesus. Jesus did what The Father told Him and showed Him, nothing else. He bore no record of Himself, neither are we to do that either.

Well I don't know about any WOF applications....I just go by what the bible says. Looks like I'll have to start looking into this WOF thing - whatever that is.

The bible says that BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED. Not by his stripes we'll be healed if we cast demons out.

Additionally, Peter said we "were" healed, not that we are, and that in relation to spiritual rebirth in that passage of his letter. It had nothing to do with physical healing, never did.

So you can speak the blessings of Heaven onto our physical bodies?? Then why pray for people then? And I said my sister 'was' healed too...so what? She was healed the day that Jesus was whipped too.

Sickness can very well be demonic. Paul had a messenger of satan sent against him that caused sickness/weakness in his life.

Rubbish - Satan only lied to him and he chose to believe him over Christ. He was never inhabited.

Just because Jesus rose from the grave doesn't mean that satan cannot touch us now.

Yes it does 1 John says so.

The body of Christ is ripe with different sicknesses and disease that Jesus dealt with while he was here. The examples are in our midst. Christians are suffering from diseases that Jesus cast demons out of people causing them.

And when Christ was on this earth there was no infilling the Holy spirit yet either.

BTW, the topic is not about healing, it is about demonization, and the gifts of healings have never changed in regards to removing them.

The topis is about demonisation and since you believe that illnesses are demons and that Christ heals illnesses then it is...very much about 'healing' also!

And you still didn't aswer my question about vaccinations? Why not?

 

[ARBITER01]

Well I don't know about any WOF applications....I just go by what the bible says. Looks like I'll have to start looking into this WOF thing - whatever that is.

The bible says that BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED. Not by his stripes we'll be healed if we cast demons out.

So you can speak the blessings of Heaven onto our physical bodies?? Then why pray for people then? And I said my sister 'was' healed too...so what? She was healed the day that Jesus was whipped too.

Here is the passage,..

1Pe 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.

1Pe 2:25 For ye were going astray like sheep; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The second line I bolded is particular to the passage of Isaiah Peter quotes, it talks of spiritual regeneration, not physical healing. There are physical healing passages, but this is dealing with our spiritual healing as a people, not healing from disease and such.

Rubbish - Satan only lied to him and he chose to believe him over Christ. He was never inhabited.

Well, let's look at the passage here,..

2Co 12:7 And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.

The passage does not talk about demonization in the form of habitation, but of oppression. This was demonic sickness/weakness being forcibly brought against Paul on purpose.

And when Christ was on this earth there was no infilling the Holy spirit yet either.

You missed the point. Look around you, Christians are suffering from various diseases that Jesus cast demons out for that were causing them. Just because they are Christians doesn't mean they won't battle against evil spirits and show results of it. Paul said for us to put on the full armor of GOD for that very reason.

The topis is about demonisation and since you believe that illnesses are demons and that Christ heals illnesses then it is...very much about 'healing' also!

I said that illness "CAN" be demonic, I never said that every disease was demonic. You're putting words into my mouth.

And you still didn't aswer my question about vaccinations? Why not?

Because I'm not worried about that, and I will ignore any reference to it. It is not my concern.

 

[Cassidy]

Here is the passage,..

The second line I bolded is particular to the passage of Isaiah Peter quotes, it talks of spiritual regeneration, not physical healing. There are physical healing passages, but this is dealing with our spiritual healing as a people, not healing from disease and such.

The passage in Isaiah actually says we 'are' healed. Peter quotes it as 'were' healed but that means the same thing...past tense...'were'.

You say spiritual healing...and I would agree with you HOWEVER Jesus was physically whipped! Ok so why can't that be physical? And I KNOW it can be physical as well because people have actually been healed this way.

Well, let's look at the passage here,..

The passage does not talk about demonization in the form of habitation, but of oppression. This was demonic sickness/weakness being forcibly brought against Paul on purpose.

From outside means - not inside means. As I said in another post...I too was oppressed but not inhabited and I chosed to be oppressed. I then chosed to not be oppressed too when I walked away from that church and it's false doctrine. No demons have ever been cast out of me...and yet I am still free...how is that so?

You missed the point. Look around you, Christians are suffering from various diseases that Jesus cast demons out for that were causing them. Just because they are Christians doesn't mean they won't battle against evil spirits and show results of it. Paul said for us to put on the full armor of GOD for that very reason.

Yes and that is done through submitting to God - and then what happens when we submit to God? We are suffering disease becasue we are in the flesh....nothing more!

I said that illness "CAN" be demonic, I never said that every disease was demonic. You're putting words into my mouth.

oh for goodness sake...this is ridiculous! So only some illnesses are demonic now...and the rest? Are because we are in the flesh...jsut as I said? What?

Because I'm not worried about that, and I will ignore any reference to it. It is not my concern.

You don't wish to answer it because it's a ridiculous notion isn't it! Which is my point!

 

[ARBITER01]

The passage in Isaiah actually says we 'are' healed. Peter quotes it as 'were' healed but that means the same thing...past tense...'were'.

You say spiritual healing...and I would agree with you HOWEVER Jesus was physically whipped! Ok so why can't that be physical? And I KNOW it can be physical as well because people have actually been healed this way.

The passage in Isaiah talks about spiritual renewal like Peter describes, it has nothing to do with physical healing, never has. Just because we see that word "healing" in a passage doesn't automatically mean that it is defined as physical healing, it has a context, and Peter correctly put it in the same context that Isaiah did.

From outside means - not inside means. As I said in another post...I too was oppressed but not inhabited and I chosed to be oppressed. I then chosed to not be oppressed too when I walked away from that church and it's false doctrine. No demons have ever been cast out of me...and yet I am still free...how is that so?

If you actually read my quote, you will see that I mentioned about this being an oppression, not a possession, although Paul does talk about the snares of the devil leading to possession that a Christian can have, as we already talked about in the other thread.

Yes and that is done through submitting to God - and then what happens when we submit to God? We are suffering disease because we are in the flesh....nothing more!

The way that armor is put on is not defined in the passage.

oh for goodness sake...this is ridiculous! So only some illnesses are demonic now...and the rest? Are because we are in the flesh...jsut as I said? What?

Maybe you should read your bible more?

Jesus healed the fever that Peter's mother-in-law had, and that didn't require Him casting out a demon, did it?

So no, not every disease or sickness is directly from a demon, we are to be led by The Holy Spirit on such things, that is why we have gifts called "discerning of spirits" that The Holy Spirit uses to point out those types of problems.

You don't wish to answer it because it's a ridiculous notion isn't it! Which is my point!

I'm not worried about it either way, it has nothing to do with the topic. That was between you and another person, not me, so quite putting me in the middle of it.

 

[ARBITER01]

One of the areas many folks miss is the gifts of The Spirit,..

The Spiritual gifts that The Holy Spirit equips us with are for the edification of The Church foremost. One of those gifts is called "gifts of healings."

Father Rick had posted 4 different types of healings associated with this gift before, and here they are again,..

Scripture places no limitation on this gift and GOD's usage of it in the assembly. It can deliver saints as well as sinners in all 4 areas, again there is no scripture limitation. So yes, demonization, up to and including possession, will be happening in the assembly to believers and non-believers alike.

It's nice to chat, but I wanted to bring my post back up to the forefront. Does anyone have scripture that limits the Gifts of Healings in the assembly somehow?

 

[Cassidy]

The passage in Isaiah talks about spiritual renewal like Peter describes, it has nothing to do with physical healing, never has. Just because we see that word "healing" in a passage doesn't automatically mean that it is defined as physical healing, it has a context, and Peter correctly put it in the same context that Isaiah did.

I'm sorry but he was physically whipped so it could not have just been a spiritual healing he was referring to for if it was then my sister faked her healing (which would have been a hard thing to do at 9mths of age)

If you actually read my quote, you will see that I mentioned about this being an oppression, not a possession, although Paul does talk about the snares of the devil leading to possession that a Christian can have, as we already talked about in the other thread.

But Oppression is a choice! I was oppressed too....the Holy Spirit pulled me out of that....no demon was cast out! I don't believe that that it can lead to possession of a born again Christian - sorry.

The way that armor is put on is not defined in the passage.

No I don't suppose it is...so let me guess those deliverance ministries made one up?

Maybe you should read your bible more?

Maybe you should stop being so condescending

[quoteJesus healed the fever that Peter's mother-in-law had, and that didn't require Him casting out a demon, did it? [/quote]

nope because she was ill...she didn't have a demon!

So no, not every disease or sickness is directly from a demon, we are to be led by The Holy Spirit on such things, that is why we have gifts called "discerning of spirits" that The Holy Spirit uses to point out those types of problems.

Discerning of Spirits is to test the spirits...nothing to do with illnesses since illnesses are pertain to the flesh and sin and nothing more.

I'm not worried about it either way, it has nothing to do with the topic. That was between you and another person, not me, so quite putting me in the middle of it.

sorry?