PLEASE! lets settle the issue,the final demon thread!

[Mathetes the kerux]

Considering that "possesed" is an errant term and not found in the Bible concerning demons . . . I would agree!

 

[Cassidy]

I reckon my husband is a thorn in my side most of the time but that doesnt' make him a demon in my body

 

[pinetree]

I am sorry Pine . . . you can string together all the verses that you want. CONTEXT determines meaning. Infirmities is HARDLY a peculiar term.

The context says that the thorn "skolops" IS the angel of Satan. There is NO getting around it.

Paul boasted NOT in the demon . . . but in the grace of God to preserve him in ANY and ALL forms of weakness . . . whether it be from a demonic issue or strictly flesh or outer persecution. The boasting is in the GRACE OF GOD.

Stay IN the context . . . Paul says CLEARLY what it is . . . w/o having to bounce around.

Be exegetically driven dear brother . . . not philosophically driven. Let the text speak for itself.

Your construal of "weaknesses" is jumping the gun. Paul is deriving a general PRINCIPLE from a particular situation. The situation was the allowance of a demonic torment . . . which resulted in weakness. From this Paul derrives that not only is God's grace sufficient in THIS situation . . . but in ANY and ALL forms of weakness . . . which he then enumerates.

You must remember that in Greek the first stated thought DRIVES the arguement. You have inverted this. There is really no way around it bro . . . I am sorry. No amount of manuevering will change the grammar and such . . . Paul states quite clearly what he thought that it was.

Nice try bro....

My post clearly states what the thorn was,your posts are now getting circular...

Now you are convoluting the issue with did he glory in his weakness,or grace.la la la ..whats the diffference!? Grace came by the weakness anyway..

So from now on,when I see your posts here on the forum..I will stop,and do this.. and say to myself..Hey....there is that guy that thinks Paul had demons inhabiting him..:o

 

[pinetree]

I reckon my husband is a thorn in my side most of the time but that doesnt' make him a demon in my body

you sure?

 

[pinetree]

To put it in non circular terms for my buddy Mathetes..

Just like in a fight,on receives the blows,and the damage into ones body..

But he does not receive the other fighter,into his body.

Case closed!

PS,one more thing bro..I see you like to mention the greek alot..thats good,sometimes I do too.

But just for the record,when you were 7 years old I used the greek too..

Keep in mind though,alot of times,one person will say something like this..

"I sat in a chair"

Then someone will reply.:no you did not!,the greek says it is a "four legged padded body resting device"

You get the picture..

 

[Tobias]

Case closed!

Well there you have it Pinetree. You are absolutely, 100% correct, and have been so all along! There is no biblical support for a "Spirit-filled Christian" to be "demon possessed". You can walk away from this one proud, knowing that no one here has been able to confuse your already convinced mind with any of our ridiculous facts!!


Never mind that there is no such scriptural thing as anyone being "demon possessed", Christian or otherwise. Forget the problem of resolving the questions of why people who have accepted Christ still display symptoms of demonic influence; and are helped by others casting spirits out in the authority of Jesus. "Experience" is a evil word; and nothing we do should be guided by those who have any of it, should they? We should all hope to learn the most "Truth" from those who have the least experience... because it is they who are the least likely to be confused by what they have encountered in life as compared to those who get their information directly from the Bible (or lack of mention therein) (sitting back in their armchairs reading rather than actually going out into the World applying the Gospel message!)

This thread has failed IMO as the "Final demon thread", as there is so much more that could be discussed. We haven't even touched on the difference between demons and unclean spirits! But you were quite insistent that we only speak about "demon possession", and how it relates to the scriptures; so that is what you've got! No scriptures anywhere to convince you that "demon possession" can occur in a Christian! There you go! Happy??

Oh, and one other bonus. This probably is the "final demon thread", at least where anybody on this forum willingly chooses to talk to you about it!


God bless you, brother!


Tobias -- living my "Experience-based" Christian theology!

Because God is meant to be experienced, not just talked about!

 

[pinetree]

Well there you have it Pinetree. You are absolutely, 100% correct, and have been so all along! There is no biblical support for a "Spirit-filled Christian" to be "demon possessed". You can walk away from this one proud, knowing that no one here has been able to confuse your already convinced mind with any of our ridiculous facts!!


Never mind that there is no such scriptural thing as anyone being "demon possessed", Christian or otherwise. Forget the problem of resolving the questions of why people who have accepted Christ still display symptoms of demonic influence; and are helped by others casting spirits out in the authority of Jesus. "Experience" is a evil word; and nothing we do should be guided by those who have any of it, should they? We should all hope to learn the most "Truth" from those who have the least experience... because it is they who are the least likely to be confused by what they have encountered in life as compared to those who get their information directly from the Bible (or lack of mention therein) (sitting back in their armchairs reading rather than actually going out into the World applying the Gospel message!)

This thread has failed IMO as the "Final demon thread", as there is so much more that could be discussed. We haven't even touched on the difference between demons and unclean spirits! But you were quite insistent that we only speak about "demon possession", and how it relates to the scriptures; so that is what you've got! No scriptures anywhere to convince you that "demon possession" can occur in a Christian! There you go! Happy??

Oh, and one other bonus. This probably is the "final demon thread", at least where anybody on this forum willingly chooses to talk to you about it!


God bless you, brother!


Tobias -- living my "Experience-based" Christian theology!

Because God is meant to be experienced, not just talked about!

ahhhhh,betcha feel better...

Well,at least you admit my point...

The scriptures do not in any way allude to the fact of Christian inhabitation!

In fact,all my posts show who we are as children if light,not of darkness...Gods temples.

Remember how Paul cast out the spirit of divination in that woman,How could he have done that,if he had a demon to?
The kingdom cant be divided,thats what Jesus said when they accused him of being of the devil.Notice it was right after he cast out devils,context anyone?

It was the exact same thing,they accused Jesus of having a demon,then he said NO!,the kingdom cant be divided!
Paul could not have had a demon either,same principal!



Also in this portion of scripture,remember the words of the demons here,look what the demons said..
Notice how the demons did not recognize there cousins in Paul..
In fact,they recognized Pauls authority!


13Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out." 14Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15(One day) the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

 

[Optimax]

As the final bell rings and the match is decided!

THE WINNER IS

PINETREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or is it

FAITHTREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

or maybe it is

GRACETREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, who is this guy anyway?

 

[pinetree]

As the final bell rings and the match is decided!

THE WINNER IS

PINETREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or is it

FAITHTREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

or maybe it is

GRACETREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey, who is this guy anyway?

I am gracefaithpinetree
We won bro,team truth!

 

[FoundInGrace]

I am gracefaithpinetree
We won bro,team truth!

its' kind of sad tho, if you put as much effort into helping those under oppression to get out of it as you did into this thread then it would be so much more useful to the kingdom of God.

'winning' isn't always winning

 

[EternalSummer]

FoundInGrace, I totally concur.

 

[Cassidy]

But maybe if the oppressed knew the truth they can then apply it to their own lives and not be living under defeit with the bible clearly says we are more than conquorers. Having people tell them that they are inhabited by spirits does nothing but harm. Telling them who they are in Christ has the ability to change lives.

Let's all do that instead! Stick to the truth and leave out the made up doctrine and we will NEVER go wrong! And we'll all be winners!

 

[pinetree]

But maybe if the oppressed knew the truth they can then apply it to their own lives and not be living under defeit with the bible clearly says we are more than conquorers. Having people tell them that they are inhabited by spirits does nothing but harm. Telling them who they are in Christ has the ability to change lives.

Let's all do that instead! Stick to the truth and leave out the made up doctrine and we will NEVER go wrong! And we'll all be winners!

Amen!
When the truth prevails,so do Gods people!
Thanks for being a soldier for truth!

 

[pinetree]

its' kind of sad tho, if you put as much effort into helping those under oppression to get out of it as you did into this thread then it would be so much more useful to the kingdom of God.

'winning' isn't always winning

There are some things you may not like,but are important!


What if Paul,did not fight for grace?


He fought for truth,and so did I ,and others here.

People are admitting, this theory is not found at all in the scriptures,only the opposite! We are Gods people,rescued out of the domain of darkness,a royal priesthood,a holy nation!

When people seek to steal Gods inheritance,you bet,it will get me and others fighting mad!


This is the debate section..



1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Timothy 6:3
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,

Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.


Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine

 

[EternalSummer]

But maybe if the oppressed knew the truth they can then apply it to their own lives and not be living under defeit with the bible clearly says we are more than conquorers.

Dear friend Cassidy. The "truth" about someone oppressed (or inhabited or whatever) is never "your situation does not exist."

Having people tell them that they are inhabited by spirits does nothing but harm.

Yes, I agree, being told by others that you are "possessed" or "have demons" is indeed damaging and spiritually abusive in any and all cases where it is not the actual situation. However, anyone actually having demons or inhabited by them will not NEED someone else to inform them this is the case. They already know something has gone horribly wrong.

 

[EternalSummer]

1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

1 Timothy 6:3
If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,

Titus 1:9
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine

Quoting all these scriptures about "sound doctrine" does nothing to prove that what you personally believe to be "sound" or not constitutes what actually IS. It only delineates the principles behind sound doctrine versus unsound. It does not even remotely prove your opinions (or mine for that matter) to be "correct" with regard to what is and is not "sound".

Quoting scriptures merely to pretend to justify one's course of action likewise is bogus and to be honest -- no offense intended -- does not impress the discerning individual whatsoever. For this has also been written which could very well apply to your ongoing crusade to stamp out the existence of Christians who have been captured and brought down by the enemy and stand in need of intervention and rescue by the King:

34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

40 His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.​

Acts 5:34-40.

Even if my speech here as "Gamaliel" were to persuade you folks, I perceive some of you might still want to have all of us who stand for the rights of the afflicted to be heard and ministered to where they themselves understand themselves to have their greatest needs, flogged anyway. You might even wish to order us not to cast out demons in the name of Jesus before letting us go. We can assure you, however, that in all such matters, we remain determined to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29).

God bless.

 

[pinetree]

Quoting all these scriptures about "sound doctrine" does nothing to prove that what you personally believe to be "sound" or not constitutes what actually IS. It only delineates the principles behind sound doctrine versus unsound. It does not even remotely prove your opinions (or mine for that matter) to be "correct" with regard to what is and is not "sound".

I have not seen a drop of scripture out of you yet.
Just a bunch of human words..

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

 

[EternalSummer]

Well scroll up and read what I added to the post above. You might not want to jump the gun next time. I have on several occasions presented scripture (perhaps not in this thread but in the many others you felt you needed to start on this topic). You have simply chosen to dismiss it as irrelevant or even, in some cases, completely sidestep discussing it in favor of going for snappy little zingers instead of substance. Not my fault if you don't want to listen or acknowledge reality, and not my responsibility to repeat myself ad infinitum over it, either.

 

[EternalSummer]

What about Mary Magdalene, Pinetree? Would you have counted her a believer in Christ? Why or why not?

 

[pinetree]

This is getting redundant..Mary was not a spirit filled believer when she was delivered....try again..
I will be happy to discuss the issue further.