'Please leave': why the Sydney archbishop's same-sex marriage message has Anglicans rattled

[zippy2006]

My comment was in reference specifically to a "big tent" approach to ecclesiology. A "big tent" can't work when some people are intent on ejecting others from the tent.

I mean, an "infinite tent" approach can't work in that case, but I didn't think you were a universalist. As I said before, big tents have edges, too.

 

[Paidiske]

I have never seen a Bible believing sodomite,in fact I think it's impossible. Romans 1 talks about the reprobate mind, rejected by God. This is the sodomites and this is why they are incapable of being saved.

Now in western nations we have millions of them,none of them believers so why do you pretend you can rehabilitate the reprobates in your church? If God has rejected them, they're finished.

I have met gay people who were faithful Christians. I do not believe that God has rejected them; on the contrary, I understand the basic argument in Romans 1 to be that everything that is wrong with humanity flows from our idolatry. It would seem, then, that introducing people to right worship would be the first step to putting right whatever in them needs mending.

I do not believe that anyone is incapable of being saved.

 

[charsan]

The sinner does not get to change the church.

Exactly, many here act like because we don't want sinners changing the Church that we are hateful, vile folk. The issue of the OP is not to let people come in to Church but rather not let those who love sin change the Church.

 

[section9+1]

No wonder Christianity is having trouble retaining members.

Christianity has trouble retaining people because it has become nearly indistinguishable from the rest of the world. It doesn't offer much more that the world does. If a sinner wants acceptance he can find it in his own circle or in the church. No real difference except the church wants more money and has extra trappings that fewer people feel the need for. The church needs to be a different place and not just a whitewashed version of the old world. Jesus is little more than extra jargon that changes almost nothing nor needs to. Maybe instead of feeling good in church people should feel a little terror. It might make them think and it might prompt them into becoming the genuine article instead of a pretentious sham.

 

[Anthony2019]

That's wonderful Anthony but if you loved God so much why don't you just do what he commands like a loyal servant?

My life as a loyal servant is to carry each others burdens and so to fulfil the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2).

I seek to be a loyal servant, not by judging and condemning others, but reaching out to them in love, in order to fulfil Jesus's greatest commandment (Matthew 22:36-42).

It is the Holy Spirit living in me who helps me to see the world, not through eyes of resentment, fear, judgement and anger, but through the eyes of love and grace. He teaches me the importance of being a peacemaker, to pursue the path of forgiveness and reconciliation with all people. He shows me that every human being is deserving of my utmost honour, care and respect and that I should treat others how I would wish to be treated. He makes me aware of the importance of dying to myself and putting others needs before my own. This involves listening to their story, understanding their feelings of pain, injustice and responding with care and compassion. He shows me the path of humility and modesty, so that I may understand and appreciate that no matter how much I have learned during my life, there is so much more to be learned.

Whenever I meet someone who is living in sin, I am always reminded that I am a sinner saved by God's grace. Unlike the scribes and Pharisees, I will not be the one to cast the first stone, but the one who refuses to condemn.

but you are like Anthony,you have no regard for scripture,so.

Contrary to your earlier assertion, I do take my reading of the scriptures very seriously. I believe they contain the Lord's message of love and redemption for all people. I am extremely careful not to misappropriate the texts in a way that causes hurt or injury to others, nor to incite prejudice and discrimination. To do so, I would be placing myself in danger of insulting the Spirit who gave inspiration to the texts.

 

[HatedByAll]

I have never seen a Bible believing sodomite,in fact I think it's impossible. Romans 1 talks about the reprobate mind, rejected by God. This is the sodomites and this is why they are incapable of being saved.

Now in western nations we have millions of them,none of them believers so why do you pretend you can rehabilitate the reprobates in your church? If God has rejected them, they're finished.

This is just not so. I know first hand. And Paul even said that there were former homosexuals who were now Christians in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

 

[Daniel C]

Well I do get angry sometimes and so does my God. Everyday in fact,with the wicked.

We must all be cautious about assuming what God wants Anthony.

 

[Daniel C]

This is just not true. I know first hand. And Paul even said that there were former homosexuals who were now Christians in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

Paul wrote the reprobate doctrine in Romans 1,they are rejected by God.

 

[HatedByAll]

Paul wrote the reprobate doctrine in Romans 1,they are rejected by God.

I consider it wise to examine such scriptures closely. This requires us to examine the verses in the original language. The only way to eternally damn homosexuals is to interpret "reprobate" in a way that was not the way it was intended to be used by the writer of the Scripture.

 

[JacksBratt]

This hits the nail on the head. "You're not loving and compassionate if you don't let the few ruin it for the many out of pride and self-importance!" That's their version of love and compassion; I want nothing to do with it. It's like letting the organism die because chemotherapy would kill the tumor, which is a living thing --thou shall not kill!

This is the true issue. And it has nothing to do with society not having compassion for these people... We have so much compassion that we are drowning society and logic with it.


In Canada, we have the tail wagging the dog.. LGBTQ make up a very small amount of the population yet they are the ones that everything is based on so that they are not offended....

Kids in school with special needs are demanding their right to be in classes with children who are, for the sake of simple statements, normal... Meanwhile, the government cannot pay enough teachers to manage classes with these students.. and... the average child.

Kids throw tantrums, scream, throw desks, bite, spit and all sorts of things..But, send the kid to the principals office and the teacher will face the ire of the parents.

Nobody is learning now.....

A piddly few people have gender dysphoria and believe that they are one of how many genders? Instead of getting them help... they appease them to avoid a scene.

Now the whole of society has to call them by these odd "pronouns" or they are offended and throw a tantrum.

Men in women's sports. Men asking for women style bikini waxing. Churches force to accept this nonsense or lose their charitable status...

Try telling a person with schizophrenia that the voices are real and they should do what they say... Who is that helping? It's no different.

The world has gone mad... We need more men and women to stand up and tell it like it is... Political correctness is not correctness.... It's appeasing the minorities and it is polarizing the civilized world because people don't want to be labeled as bigots....

Truth is disappearing fast......You better wave as it disappears down the road to ruin.

 

[SkyWriting]

So if a nuclear family had children and taught their children correctly from Scripture that homosexuality is wrong would you really accept them?

Sure. I'm from such a family. So are my cousins, though one is gay with two kids.
And I still accept them as family. I've got some family that is not married, some with multiple divorces, even one family member in prison for murder. They are all my family.

 

[JacksBratt]

Not true.

I have gay men in my pews. They're here. They're showing up. They're listening to sermons, attending Bible studies, seeking pastoral care, engaging in conversation and the sacramental life of the parish. For them, "Please leave" is tantamount to utter rejection.

I feel that my job is to encourage them to grow in faith and hope and love, to encourage their prayer life, and to leave it up to God what God thinks they most urgently need to be convicted of. I don't need to try to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit.

I think it's great that you have gay men in your pews.. But, soon as you conform to them to get married... you lose your credibility.

I think it would be great if you had alcoholics, thieves, adulterers, murderers, gamblers and all other sorts of people in your church... this is the first step to their finding forgiveness and repentance from these lifestyles..

But would you allow the thief to rob the church each week? The alcoholic to bring a bottle and drink it in the pew? The adulterer to bring his mistress and sit while his wife is in another pew? I hope it's "no".


The church should accept people as they are... and try to set them on the narrow path.. We cannot do this if we start walking the broad and wide road with them.

And, yes, I believe that any of these can be Christians and struggling with their lifestyle of sin... But... that does not mean we appease it, condone it and accept it as we are expected to.

 

[SkyWriting]

In my country and province it's legal to get drunk, go to a casino, women can go topless, sleep with all the women that I want to, get an abortion, and other things.... It doesn't mean that the church must allow it in it's building....

Do you have that in law...or are you just imagining it?

 

[Paidiske]

I think it's great that you have gay men in your pews.. But, soon as you conform to them to get married... you lose your credibility.

But I am not doing that. I am not arguing for that.

All I am arguing for is not pushing these people out of the church, and away from God.

 

[SkyWriting]

I think it's great that you have gay men in your pews.. But, soon as you conform to them to get married... you lose your credibility.

If they don't treat others the same as they'd like to be treated
then they have no credibility to loose. I wouldn't want to be part of
an angry mob with torches.

 

[JacksBratt]

Do you have that in law...or are you just imagining it?

All those are laws...

It is legal for women to go topless.. a right that they fought for and never take advantage of.
It's legal to get drunk.
It's legal to go to a casino.
It's legal to sleep around... at will.
It's legal to have an abortion...

Which one did you have issues with?

 

[JacksBratt]

But I am not doing that. I am not arguing for that.

All I am arguing for is not pushing these people out of the church, and away from God.

Well I apologize.... and agree... Our doors should be open to all that seek the saving grace of Christ... But we should not bend to the ways of the world.

 

[JacksBratt]

If you don't treat others the same as you'd like to be treated yourself
then you have no credibility to loose. That seems to be your stand though.

We should treat others the way we like to be treated.

The problem is when we try to treat others the way they want....to be treated.

What part of this am I missing and being hypocritical about?

 

[ryansymons86]

Awesome! somebody had to make a stand.

 

[charsan]

Sure. I'm from such a family. So are my cousins, though one is gay with two kids.
And I still accept them as family. I've got some family that is not married, some with multiple divorces, even one family member in prison for murder. They are all my family.

So you would be okay with a family with a Dad, Mom, and children standing up for the word of God? Would you?