Please HELP re: Losing Salvation

[ZiSunka]

Oh no! I put my salvation down here somewhere and now I can't find it anywhere!

You cannot lose your salvation, but you can throw it away through deliberate, persistent and unrepented thumbing your nose at God. Someone who says they are saved but lives like a sinner never knew God to begin with, no matter how many times they walked an aisle or said a prayer.

 

[Unnamed Servant]

So lambslove, are you saying that you can at one point in time come to know Christ, then by your own means let go of the salvation? Or are you saying that if you claim to be a Christian and live a life apart from Christ you never had salvation? j/w

 

[ZiSunka]

Yes to both.

You can come to faith in Christ, then decide that you would rather live a life of sin and thumb your nose at God and tell him you no longer want to be saved. I have known people who did this, believe it or not. They have decided that illicit sex (or some other sin) is has a more powerful call than Christ and abandon Him forcefully for some other lover's embrace, knowing full well that it means they will be lost. For instance, one man I know wanted to live in sin with a married woman, knowing that it was wrong in God's eyes, and instead of turning his back on the woman, he told God to go to h*ll and has lived a life of misery ever since. Now he says that he doesn't care if God loves him or not, he hates God. No one that hates God can say they have saving faith. He curses God and ridicules anyone who has faith.

And, you can pretend to be a follower of Christ, but in your heart not know him at all. I have known people like this as well. One woman I know went to church every week her whole life, and was always doing things at the church, Bible study, ladies' aid, choir, the whole bit, but when she lay dying, she cursed God and said she never did those things out of love, but so everyone would admire her.

Two people, two ways to be lost.

 

[BT]

Ok I've got the draft done. Which I would say requires hardly any tweaking. I was restricted to 6000 words instead of 2000 (who in the heck can write a decent 2k word paper? yeeesh). I went a little over but he said that's ok (not including the footnotes ).

So anyway if anyone wants a peek PM me your email address and I"ll send it off..

It has a pretty short Bibliography which I'll post here (fyi)..

Reference and Research Texts:

1. Arthur W. Pink. Exposition of Hebrews. Baker Bookhouse Grand Rapids, Michigan 1954
   
   
   
2. The Pulpit Commentary Volume 21. Editor H.D.M. Spence and Joseph S. Exell, Eerdmans Publishing Grand Rapids, Michigan 1950
   
   
   
3. Paul Enns. The Moody Handbook of Theology. Moody Press, 1989
   
   
   
4. C.I. Scofield. The Original Scofield Reference Bible. Oxford University Press, 1996
   
   
   
5. Norman Geisler. Systematic Theology Volume Three Sin and Salvation. Bethany House 2004
   
   
   
6. Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology Volumes 3 & 4. Kregel 1948
   
   
   
7. Wayne Grudem. Systematic Theology. Inter-Varsity Press, 1994
   
   
   
8. J. Hastings (editor). The Great Texts of the Bible. Charles Scribner’s Sons Edinburgh, 1914
   
   
   
9. J.F. Strombeck. Shall Never Perish. Moody Bible Institute, 1966
   
   
   
10. John Phillips. Bible Explorer’s Guide. Kregel, 1987
    
    
    
11. William R. Newell. Hebrews Verse by Verse. Moody, (Twenty-first printing) 1982
    
    
    
12. Robertson Nicoll. The Expositor’s Greek Testament Volume Four Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James. Hendrickson Publishers, 2002
    
    
    
13. Joseph H. Thayer. Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament. Hendrickson, (sixth printing) 2003
    
    
    
14. Warren W. Wiersbe. Be Confident. Victor Books, 1982
    
    
    
15. Charles C. Ryrie. So Great Salvation What It Means to Believe In Jesus Christ. Victor Books, 1989
    

 

[Jeffrey A]

So lambslove, are you saying that you can at one point in time come to know Christ, then by your own means let go of the salvation? Or are you saying that if you claim to be a Christian and live a life apart from Christ you never had salvation? j/w

I know that lambslove says yes to both, and that would be a good representation of the Arminian position (our member Mennonites are historically Arminian in position on the issue).

The historic S. Baptist position, as well as that of the Grace Brethren (other member groups here), OTOH, is that one cannot truly "come to know Christ, then by your own means let go of the salvation." We believe that a believer can step out of fellowship with God, and return to a life of willful sinning. However, since that person has been bought with a price, s/he is not his/her own, but belongs, is the possession, of Christ, and is also an adopted child of God, a member of the household. We therefore look at that person as the "prodigal son", the "lost sheep", the son in need of "discipline" from the Lord. And God has made clear through the NT writers that God will indeed discipline any child of his who is sinning willfully, so that they will repent and return to the light. If they keep on willfully sinning, he gives them a "terrifying expectation of judgment" -- not the judgment of condemnation with the world, but the judgment on believers, on the "household of God", for "judgment begins with the household of God."

Paul made it very clear to the Corinthians that if they do not examine themselves rightly, as to their conduct, God will judge them as believers, and that judgment can lead to sickness, and even death. Paul also told them that after death, one will appear before the "judgment seat of Christ", where their works will be judged, and they will give an account for their life. All the things they did that were not for God's glory will be "burned up." If they have nothing worthy to pass through that fire, they will "suffer loss" for eternity. Saved, but as "through fire."

God may seem to ignore the sins of the unbelievers, but believe me, he sees, and begins to work his discipline in the lives of his children, for their own good. You cannot lose your salvation, but if you fall away, and do not repent, you can expect God to find you, and give you a whipping. For you are his child. And God does not return his adopted children to the orphanage. And you cannot buy yourself back from the redemption. The price he paid for you was too great. You don't have enough sin. But watch out for the discipline. It is terrifying.

I should know.

Jeffrey A

 

[ksen]

BT,

What school are you attending?

 

[Sword-In-Hand]

I know that lambslove says yes to both, and that would be a good representation of the Arminian position (our member Mennonites are historically Arminian in position on the issue).

The historic S. Baptist position, as well as that of the Grace Brethren (other member groups here), OTOH, is that one cannot truly "come to know Christ, then by your own means let go of the salvation." We believe that a believer can step out of fellowship with God, and return to a life of willful sinning. However, since that person has been bought with a price, s/he is not his/her own, but belongs, is the possession, of Christ, and is also an adopted child of God, a member of the household. We therefore look at that person as the "prodigal son", the "lost sheep", the son in need of "discipline" from the Lord. And God has made clear through the NT writers that God will indeed discipline any child of his who is sinning willfully, so that they will repent and return to the light. If they keep on willfully sinning, he gives them a "terrifying expectation of judgment" -- not the judgment of condemnation with the world, but the judgment on believers, on the "household of God", for "judgment begins with the household of God."

Paul made it very clear to the Corinthians that if they do not examine themselves rightly, as to their conduct, God will judge them as believers, and that judgment can lead to sickness, and even death. Paul also told them that after death, one will appear before the "judgment seat of Christ", where their works will be judged, and they will give an account for their life. All the things they did that were not for God's glory will be "burned up." If they have nothing worthy to pass through that fire, they will "suffer loss" for eternity. Saved, but as "through fire."

God may seem to ignore the sins of the unbelievers, but believe me, he sees, and begins to work his discipline in the lives of his children, for their own good. You cannot lose your salvation, but if you fall away, and do not repent, you can expect God to find you, and give you a whipping. For you are his child. And God does not return his adopted children to the orphanage. And you cannot buy yourself back from the redemption. The price he paid for you was too great. You don't have enough sin. But watch out for the discipline. It is terrifying.

I should know.

Jeffrey A

I agree 100%. We can't get ourselves saved in the first place and we can't get ourselves unsaved either.
1st or 2nd Peter, can't remember right now, explains that the punishment for believing and then walking away is extreme! I believe the verse says its better for them to have never believed.

 

[lczell]

Don"t forget Luke 8: 13 Jesus explains the parable of the sower. They believe for a while, but in a time of temptation, they fall away.