Please help. I keep getting asked this question and it's making be wonder

[lostintranslation]

But I thought that it was taken as a given that the gospels were written by different people and not by God?

 

[razzelflabben]

But I thought that it was taken as a given that the gospels were written by different people and not by God?

different people same God. The bible is the inspired word of God, that means that He told them what to say through inspiration not dictation. So each different author will care his own personality through in his writtings, but the points will all be from God.

 

[marktheblake]

That is fine by me but I know it won't wash with the non-believers.

dont forget one thing, when the non-believers are asking you these questions, they are not doing so you can convert them, they are trying to get you to question your belief. If you do not know the answer to a questions just tell them you will get back to them because you do not know. And if they laugh at you for having doubts, just tell them that of course you have doubts, everyone has doubts!

Are we saying that the Bible is all to be taken literally?

Try not to use that term, there are thousands of figures of speech in the bible. Rather we should be saying that we take the Bible seriously.

I'm sorry but I keep thinking about this and I've come back to thinking that the Ark story just doesn't seem possible to be literal.

The style of the writing is not mythological or allegorical, it is in the style of a historical account, the precise information and fine detail attest to that. Its either the truth or fiction, please dont allow yourself to be misled by so called modern thinking.

Why did God do that then but not now when we have so much evil in the world?

He will do it again, but next time it will not be a flood.

Why did God wipe out all but one family? Surely there must have been other people alive then who were lovely people?

Good question, i have often wondered about that, I harmonise this with the fact that I reckon God would have known if there was. It was made pretty clear that he said it was ALL mankind.

One point to consider: Who are the "sons of god" IF these sons are angels, who have interbred with human women, then these angels are inherantly evil(satanic), and their descendants are the Nephilim, then what we have here is a corruption of the human race, by Satan. Sound far fetched? maybe but I have not heard a better explanation of who these Sons of God are.

This is the not the omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving God I believe in. This must be a parable or can someone explain?

God is not all-loving. When Hitler died, if he wandered into heaven an all-loving god would say "adolf me old mate, its alright, come here and give me a big hug" - wouldnt you feel ripped off if you were a good person all your life and for what.

No. God is not all-loving, he is loving, holy and just - therefore, evil is dealt with, as he did with mankind in the flood, and on other occasions (smaller groups)

 

[rcorlew]

I do not know if this was covered yet as there are quite a few posts, it is in Jewish law that there is a rule of 3., it must be in the Bible 3 times to be law, otherwise it is parable.

However, since Jesus could not lie, if He were talking in parable, it would also be wise to take that as literal fact.

There are visual interpretations no doubt, but you will understand those when you seek the truth. Once you fully understand the interpretations, you can analyze them and apply the rule of 3 to discern parable or law.

 

[Epiphoskei]

Unless God said something about a rule of three, I think that's something we'd best leave in the catagory of man-made superstitions.

 

[GuardianShua]

Hello everyone,

First post and all that.

I love to discuss faith and Jesus with people but I keep falling down on the same point.

I look at the Bible and there's so much in it which cannot be taken literally and is clearly metaphorical. When atheists laugh at the Bible, I always say, "it's not all supposed to be literal" and most back off at this point.

However, some ask me the following question and the more I question it, the more I wonder

"So, how do we know which bits are meant to be taken literally and which bits are meant to be seen as metaphorical?"

Can anyone help? Thanks.

There are place in scripture that tells you which words are parabolic. Example:
Revelation 17:15
Then the angel (messenger) said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.

This can also mean Sea, ocean, lake, stream, and waters. In another part of scripture we are told that the "Beast" are nations. And in another we are told that the "locus" or "grass hoppers" are men. The bible interpretates it's self, but it also requires a spirit of discernment.

 

[GuardianShua]

I'm sorry but I keep thinking about this and I've come back to thinking that the Ark story just doesn't seem possible to be literal.

"The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart." (Genesis 6:5-6)

Why did God do that then but not now when we have so much evil in the world?
Why did God wipe out all but one family? Surely there must have been other people alive then who were lovely people?
Why did God kill everybody and everything apart from two (or so) of everything? Surely they didn't all deserve that?

This is the not the omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving God I believe in. This must be a parable or can someone explain?

Thank you.

God said to Noah, "Take two of every kind that I command you." He did not say take two of every kind, but of those He commanded. Because God gave man free will to choose good or evil, man chose evil. It is more merciful to cut peoples lives short, than to allow them to cause more suffering.

 

[razzelflabben]

dont forget one thing, when the non-believers are asking you these questions, they are not doing so you can convert them, they are trying to get you to question your belief. If you do not know the answer to a questions just tell them you will get back to them because you do not know. And if they laugh at you for having doubts, just tell them that of course you have doubts, everyone has doubts!

I have no doubts, in fact, I ask for wisdom and allow God to speak through me.

The style of the writing is not mythological or allegorical, it is in the style of a historical account, the precise information and fine detail attest to that. Its either the truth or fiction, please dont allow yourself to be misled by so called modern thinking.

but, it also includes peotry, polimics, songs, parables, etc.

God is not all-loving. When Hitler died, if he wandered into heaven an all-loving god would say "adolf me old mate, its alright, come here and give me a big hug" - wouldnt you feel ripped off if you were a good person all your life and for what.

this shows a lack of understanding of what real love is. But it also shows human logic over God's logic which is a common misconception about the bible. We must take the bible for what it says, not what we think it should say.

No. God is not all-loving, he is loving, holy and just - therefore, evil is dealt with, as he did with mankind in the flood, and on other occasions (smaller groups)

but what you are missing is that love is just, love also corrects, waits, protects, etc. God is the very image of Love. Study it sometime, it really is fascinating.

 

[rcorlew]

The rule of 3 is not superstition, it is Levitical Law given by God to the Jews before they crossed the Jordan River into the Promised Land.

Example:
In court there must be 2 witnesses who agree with the accuser in order for there to be a case. 1 accuser + 2 witnesses = 3 people accusing somebody

Example:
The story of the widow leaving the other 9 coins to find the 1 lost coin is parable, same as the prodigal son as they do not appear in the Bible 3 times.

It is not hard to understand the use of parables, they are visual representations of thoughts or concepts, we all use them virtually everyday, especially teachers introducing a new concept into the classroom.

 

[Epiphoskei]

The rule of 3 is not superstition, it is Levitical Law given by God to the Jews before they crossed the Jordan River into the Promised Land.

Example:
In court there must be 2 witnesses who agree with the accuser in order for there to be a case. 1 accuser + 2 witnesses = 3 people accusing somebody

Example:
The story of the widow leaving the other 9 coins to find the 1 lost coin is parable, same as the prodigal son as they do not appear in the Bible 3 times.

It is not hard to understand the use of parables, they are visual representations of thoughts or concepts, we all use them virtually everyday, especially teachers introducing a new concept into the classroom.

Your examples don't prove your thesis. Where is the exact reference wherein God commanded "it must be in the Bible three times before you take it literally"? If this is Levitical law you ought to be able to find it.

 

[rcorlew]

Deu 17:6 However, they may be put to death only if two or more witnesses testify against them; they are not to be put to death if there is only one witness.

Deu 19:15 "One witness is not enough to convict someone of a crime; at least two witnesses are necessary to prove that someone is guilty.

2Co 13:1 This is now the third time that I am coming to visit you. "Any accusation must be upheld by the evidence of two or more witnesses"---as the scripture says.

Joh 8:17 It is written in your Law that when two witnesses agree, what they say is true.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not listen to you, take one or two other persons with you, so that 'every accusation may be upheld by the testimony of two or more witnesses,' as the scripture says.

Now I think the last verse spells it out clearly, there must be 1 person proclaiming the law, and at least 2 witnesses agreeing otherwise no charges can be pursued.

To further this, the number 3 is found 355 times in the Bible, when you dig into that further you will see that God commanded many events to occur 3 times a year or at 3 years, even the Trinity is 3. Jesus and The Holy Spirit are God's Witnesses, but that is a whole other argument.

When you apply that principal to your studying of the Bible, you can more clearly differentiate between parable and fact.

 

[Epiphoskei]

That's conjecture. The fact that two or three witnesses are necesarry in levitical law to find a man guilty does not necessarally carry over into scripture. What Bible verse says explicitly that unless it happens three times in the Biblical text it isn't to be taken literally.

 

[Quaero]

"So, how do we know which bits are meant to be taken literally and which bits are meant to be seen as metaphorical?"

Now that's the unhinging of all the theists I debate with. There are the two extremes, everything in the bible is metaphor, and everything in the bible is solid fact.

I find myself unable to believe either, and trust me, I've met people who fervently believe both arguments.

So logically the truth lies in the middle ground. There are three main types of rules in the bible (as I see it), The laws of God, The laws of Jesus, and the laws of the Hebrews and Prophets. The latter are subject to the culture and conditions of the time, and the validity of which I find questionable (for examples try the whole book of Deuteronomy)

some former atheists say that it's used as a smokescreen

That's closer to home than you may think. When ever an argument is going against an atheist (I myself have used it repeatedly) the validity of the bible is wheeled out.

As long as fundamental Christians extol the 100% accuracy of the bible, fundamentalist atheists will smash their arguments to pieces, It is easy to admit that there are holes in the Origin of Species, but when you form a religion out a book admitting mistakes and deciding which laws to follow can be troubling....

How to respond? Be patient, ask the atheist to supply verses of the bible, then respond as to whether it should be taken literally or not, and explain your reasoning. Its a tough argument to win, but with borderline atheists it is possible to justify your faith.

 

[marktheblake]

Now that's the unhinging of all the theists I debate with. There are the two extremes, everything in the bible is metaphor, and everything in the bible is solid fact.

True, and neither is the case. To claim that the bible is to be taken literally is to deny figures of speech, and there are thousands of them.

It is better to say that we take the Bible seriously.