Please Explain To Me...

[EdMa]

What's Calvinists, Arminians, Reformed, and Free Will??

Saw that at the thread "What kind of bapist are you?" poll, and got me wondering.

Thanks.

 

[TimRout]

What's Calvinists, Arminians, Reformed, and Free Will??

Saw that at the thread "What kind of bapist are you?" poll, and got me wondering.

Thanks.

While one could make distinctions between all four terms, for your purposes let's simplify things a bit.

Reformed and Calvinist are essentially synonymous. Most Christians who identify themselves by one, also identify themselves by the other. If you want histories on the titles, just ask. Calvinists believe that salvation is a product of God's sovereign grace and nothing else. This belief is called "monergism".

Arminians espouse free will -- the belief that people are free to choose right or wrong, for or against God -- under no divine compulsion whatsoever. While belief in free will is not limited to Arminian Christians, one must espouse a belief in free will in order to be an Arminian. Proponents of free will believe that salvation is a product of cooperation between God and man. God offers grace freely to all, and the individual either receives it by faith or rejects it. This belief is called "synergism".

So then, Calvinists believe that humanbeings are totally depraved -- dead in their trespasses and sins -- and unable to respond to God by faith. All are deserving of hell, and a fair God would send each and every sinner into eternal damnation. But the Calvinist believes that God, in His great love and mercy, has chosen to be a great deal more than fair. God has sovereignly chosen to save some, removing the sinner's heart of stone and replacing it with a heart that is soft and full of faith. The newly redeemed person then joyfully and willingly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. This redeemed status is irrevocable.

Arminians, on the other hand, believe that humanbeings are spiritually sick -- inhibited from responding to God by faith, though not completely incapable. In this view, God does not provide irresistible saving grace to a chosen few, but rather provides broad enabling grace to absolutely everyone. All who employ their free will and choose to follow Christ by faith, are granted eternal life. However, Arminians also believe that a person can choose to stop following Jesus at any time, and thereby incur divine wrath and a loss of salvation.

There is much more to be said about the categories you provided, but I'll stop there for now. Feel free to ask questions.

Incidentally, I am a Calvinist.

 

[mlqurgw]

What's Calvinists, Arminians, Reformed, and Free Will??

Saw that at the thread "What kind of bapist are you?" poll, and got me wondering.

Thanks.

Calvinists hold to the Doctrines of Grace normally known as TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance of the saints. Reformed are true Calvinists as they hold to Covenant theology as John Calvin taught with a few exceptions. Arminians believe that salvation is up to man's decision to believe by an act of his free will. It makes salvation to be a work of man instead of the work of God. Arminians believe God is thwarted by the will of men and that He desires all to be saved but can't actually save them without their permission. They make God to be a midget and a pygmy that has no real power or love. Calvinists stress the sovereignty of God and Arminians stress the free will of man. Free will is the weakest part of a man that Arminians hold up as god. They make all things depend on man's will not God's will. One exhalts God as God the other exhalts man as god.

 

[JohnDB]

There is a third group of us who hold to neither Doctrines of either Calvinism nor Armenianism. (despite claims otherwise)

We see these two polar opposites as a paradox...not an opposition.
(paradox being while both seem to be in opposition they are not)

Much of this was seen in the story of the MAN BORN BLIND.

During that time people wondered much in the same vein as these above have described. How is it that God blesses some people and not others. How is it that some are cursed at birth (such as the man they were asking about). What basis did God choose to whom He would bless with wisdom and whom He would bless.

That is the reason for the question and the answer.

If the man was born blind he never had a chance yet to commit a sin.
His parents, by Jesus' affirmation also did not sin to cause their child to be born blind.

What Jesus referred to is that All here are for the Glory of God in whatever capacity that God ordains. Some men have more to work with than others...but all are capable of giving God some kind of glory...

God doesn't reward us in heaven based upon our results...only our efforts. Lottie moon is an example of this...she failed and worked herself to death...but her name now sends tens of thousands after her to go and do the mission that she failed in...with results.

A potter in the ANE would use clay that he dug to make pots and earthenware vessels with. The better the clay the taller and thinner the vessel. Some could be made really high and thin like a wine jug...others low and flat like a plate or a chamber pot...all dependant upon the clay.

In the same manner God makes each of us the best vessel for the "oil" or Holy Spirit as He can...our sinful nature notwithstanding...and grades us upon being the vessels we are. Did we do all that we could? Or did we barely try?

Results are not relevant.

 

[TimRout]

Reformed are true Calvinists as they hold to Covenant theology as John Calvin taught with a few exceptions.

Golly...thanks Ron. That made this Dispensational Calvinist feel just peachy.

 

[mlqurgw]

Golly...thanks Ron. That made this Dispensational Calvinist feel just peachy.

No offense intended. But the reality is that Reformed theology and Calvinism are no longer the same thing. A person can be a Calvinist and not be Reformed. Reformed theology is some form of Covenant theology, either a modified covenant theology or the covenant theology that sprinkle babies. Just so you know I am not Reformed either. I differ with Reformed folks on the Law and on sanctification. I do hold to a covenant theology but not the Reformed one. I am closer to John Gill.

 

[TimRout]

No offense intended. But the reality is that Reformed theology and Calvinism are no longer the same thing. A person can be a Calvinist and not be Reformed. Reformed theology is some form of Covenant theology, either a modified covenant theology or the covenant theology that sprinkle babies. Just so you know I am not Reformed either. I differ with Reformed folks on the Law and on sanctification. I do hold to a covenant theology but not the Reformed one. I am closer to John Gill.

I'm just yanking your chain, brother. I am well aware of the various distinctions we might make within the Calvinist camp. But as I said to the OP, my statement was intended to be highly introductory.

 

[mlqurgw]

I'm just yanking your chain, brother. I am well aware of the various distinctions we might make within the Calvinist camp. But as I said to the OP, my statement was intended to be highly introductory.

Whew! I thought I had offended you. I should have known you were yanking my chain.

 

[mlqurgw]

There is a third group of us who hold to neither Doctrines of either Calvinism nor Armenianism. (despite claims otherwise)

We see these two polar opposites as a paradox...not an opposition.
(paradox being while both seem to be in opposition they are not)

Much of this was seen in the story of the MAN BORN BLIND.

During that time people wondered much in the same vein as these above have described. How is it that God blesses some people and not others. How is it that some are cursed at birth (such as the man they were asking about). What basis did God choose to whom He would bless with wisdom and whom He would bless.

That is the reason for the question and the answer.

If the man was born blind he never had a chance yet to commit a sin.
His parents, by Jesus' affirmation also did not sin to cause their child to be born blind.

What Jesus referred to is that All here are for the Glory of God in whatever capacity that God ordains. Some men have more to work with than others...but all are capable of giving God some kind of glory...

God doesn't reward us in heaven based upon our results...only our efforts. Lottie moon is an example of this...she failed and worked herself to death...but her name now sends tens of thousands after her to go and do the mission that she failed in...with results.

A potter in the ANE would use clay that he dug to make pots and earthenware vessels with. The better the clay the taller and thinner the vessel. Some could be made really high and thin like a wine jug...others low and flat like a plate or a chamber pot...all dependant upon the clay.

In the same manner God makes each of us the best vessel for the "oil" or Holy Spirit as He can...our sinful nature notwithstanding...and grades us upon being the vessels we are. Did we do all that we could? Or did we barely try?

Results are not relevant.

Wow! Are you actually promoting a works salvation? God makes us the best vessel He can? I thought nothing was impossible with God. Your thoughts of God are way too small. Your post makes Him a little higher than man but not much. You make God dependant on man rather than man dependant on God.

 

[EdMa]

Calvinists hold to the Doctrines of Grace normally known as TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance of the saints.

woah, big word for me. I like farther explaination of TULIP please, if you will that is.

 

[TimRout]

T.U.L.I.P. represents five doctrines intrinsic to Calvinist theology. They may be described (simplistically) as follows:

Total Depravity: Mankind has inherited Adam's original sin [1 Cor. 15:22]. Thus the natural (unsaved) man is dead in his trespasses and sins [Eph. 2:1-2]. Everything he does, even on his very best day, is hopelessly contaminated with sin [Is. 64:6]. As a result of his dead condition, the natural man is enslaved to sin [Ro. 6:17], unable to please God [Ro. 8:8], and unable to comprehend the things of God [1 Cor. 2:14]. Consequently, without divine intervention, the natural man cannot come to saving faith in Christ.

Unconditional Election: Though all people are sinners who unquestionably deserve eternal damnation in hell [Ro. 6:23], God in His vast mercy and love has chosen to save some [Ro. 8:29-30; 2 Thes. 2:13]. This choice is based exclusively on God's sovereign will and NOT on any individual merit [Deut. 7:6-10; Eph. 1:1-11, 2:8-9]. Those throughout history (past, present, and future) whom God has chosen to redeem, are called the ELECT [Mk. 13:27].

Limited Atonement: Christ bore the sins of God's elect on the cross and paid their debt in full [Heb. 9:15]. Jesus died only for the elect [Jn. 5:21].

Irresistible Grace: Those whom God has chosen to save will, at the appointed time, respond to His grace through the preaching of the gospel, and willingly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life [Jn. 6:37-44].

Perseverance Of The Saints: Those whom God has saved will never turn their back on Him; neither will they be expelled from the family of God. They are eternally secure in Christ [Jn. 10:27-29; Heb. 7:25].


There's a quick run through. Just ask if you require further explanation.

 

[98cwitr]

While one could make distinctions between all four terms, for your purposes let's simplify things a bit.

Reformed and Calvinist are essentially synonymous. Most Christians who identify themselves by one, also identify themselves by the other. If you want histories on the titles, just ask. Calvinists believe that salvation is a product of God's sovereign grace and nothing else. This belief is called "monergism".

Arminians espouse free will -- the belief that people are free to choose right or wrong, for or against God -- under no divine compulsion whatsoever. While belief in free will is not limited to Arminian Christians, one must espouse a belief in free will in order to be an Arminian. Proponents of free will believe that salvation is a product of cooperation between God and man. God offers grace freely to all, and the individual either receives it by faith or rejects it. This belief is called "synergism".

So then, Calvinists believe that humanbeings are totally depraved -- dead in their trespasses and sins -- and unable to respond to God by faith. All are deserving of hell, and a fair God would send each and every sinner into eternal damnation. But the Calvinist believes that God, in His great love and mercy, has chosen to be a great deal more than fair. God has sovereignly chosen to save some, removing the sinner's heart of stone and replacing it with a heart that is soft and full of faith. The newly redeemed person then joyfully and willingly believes on the Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. This redeemed status is irrevocable.

Arminians, on the other hand, believe that humanbeings are spiritually sick -- inhibited from responding to God by faith, though not completely incapable. In this view, God does not provide irresistible saving grace to a chosen few, but rather provides broad enabling grace to absolutely everyone. All who employ their free will and choose to follow Christ by faith, are granted eternal life. However, Arminians also believe that a person can choose to stop following Jesus at any time, and thereby incur divine wrath and a loss of salvation.

There is much more to be said about the categories you provided, but I'll stop there for now. Feel free to ask questions.

Incidentally, I am a Calvinist.

what if you share many of the same views as each

 

[TimRout]

what if you share many of the same views as each

My post was intended to address the OP, not to deny the existence of other varied opinions that incorporate some or none of Calvinist or Arminian theology. Are you eluding to OSAS Arminianism, or Amyraldism, etc?

 

[98cwitr]

none of the above...I claim nothing but to be a Christian raised in a Baptist church...what my point is that I accept a lot of what you posted from both sides...

 

[EdMa]

What's the Arminian doctine? is there something like TULIP for them??

 

[TimRout]

What's the Arminian doctine? is there something like TULIP for them??

Funny you should ask.

T.U.L.I.P. was actually developed as an apologetic response to the five points of Arminianism. They start off similarly...at least on the surface.

Total Depravity: In his fallen state, the natural man's free will is infirmed and imprisoned in sin, disabling his ability to respond to God in faith.

General Atonement: Christ suffered for all people exhaustively, imparting a measure of prevenient grace to everyone through the cross, thereby circumventing the bonds of sin and enabling all people to respond to Him in faith, should they so choose.

Resistible Grace: Though God's saving grace is offered freely to all, and is the only means by which a person may be saved, this grace is applied to no one who does not first receive it willingly by faith.

Free Will: From eternity past, God has decreed free will unto man, such that man is at all times free to choose good or evil -- faith or rebellion -- Christ or the flesh. This freedom is libertarian in nature, meaning God has chosen to never interfere with it.

Conditional Election: Since man is perpetually free to choose for or against Christ, a Christian is always free to turn his back on Christ, thereby losing his salvation. Only continued obedience to the gospel ensures eternal life. Election, therefore, is considered conditional. God looked down through the corodors of time, observed those who would believe on His Son, and elected them unto glory.

As a Calvinist, it very nearly makes my teeth ache writing this stuff, but you asked, so there you go.

I should mention that, depending on which Arminian you talk to, this doctrinal summary can be presented in a number of different ways. For example, traditional Wesleyan Arminians believe that Christ suffered for all, but paid for none. The payment transaction takes place only when a person receives the gift of eternal life by faith, as an act of his free will. Not all Arminians assert this view, but that was Wesley's position.

 

[van_s]

Funny you should ask.

T.U.L.I.P. was actually developed as an apologetic response to the five points of Arminianism. They start off similarly...at least on the surface.


Free Will: From eternity past, God has decreed free will unto man, such that man is at all times free to choose good or evil -- faith or rebellion -- Christ or the flesh. This freedom is libertarian in nature, meaning God has chosen to never interfere with it.

Not even a nudge?

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

none of the above...I claim nothing but to be a Christian raised in a Baptist church...what my point is that I accept a lot of what you posted from both sides...

I am not busting on this poster but I must make this point: we are all christians in the first and only sense.
Calvinism, Arminianism is a system of theology, specifically soteriology, ie the HOW's and WHY's the bible falls into place as an overall book...from Genesis to the Revelation.

Just wanted to make this clear.

 

[TimRout]

Not even a nudge?

It depends on who you ask. Consistent Arminians would say "God never nudges, period". Others would say, "He nudges but never forces."

 

[EdMa]

I am not busting on this poster but I must make this point: we are all christians in the first and only sense.
Calvinism, Arminianism is a system of theology, specifically soteriology, ie the HOW's and WHY's the bible falls into place as an overall book...from Genesis to the Revelation.

Just wanted to make this clear.

Yes I know. I just wanted to get a clear definition of both.