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Yes, they were influenced by Plato. No, it's still understood as three persons, but the persons aren't understood as people. They aren't to be understood like a television show would present a Ghost or God.
I already gave an explanation about how they were conceived of at the time. What parts do I need to explain in more detail or was confusing to you?So how did these men precieve the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
Ken
The analogy doesn't work because the table, cot, chair are each a fraction of a complete set, and only when together become a complete set.Would this example help in understanding the trinity?
Wooden table, wooden cot, wooden chair - they are one in essence (wood) but three distinct things (as table, cot, chair).
First you say the men of the catholic church who came up with the trinity understood it because they were influenced by Plato.I already gave an explanation about how they were conceived of at the time. What parts do I need to explain in more detail or was confusing to you?
The analogy doesn't work because the table, cot, chair are each a fraction of a complete set, and only when together become a complete set.
Nobody thus far wants to define the father, son, and HS as each a fraction of God, they want to claim each as a complete God yet when together they all equal only 1 complete God.
Ken
The analogy doesn't work because the table, cot, chair are each a fraction of a complete set, and only when together become a complete set.
Nobody thus far wants to define the father, son, and HS as each a fraction of God, they want to claim each as a complete God yet when together they all equal only 1 complete God.
Ken
Their ingrediants may be the same, (wood, nails, and varnish) but they are not the same pieces of furniture.Table is different from cot, which is different from chair. Yet table is wood, cot is wood, chair is wood.
I don't quite follow you; what do you mean?Just as an aside, i wonder if your statement here is doctrinally pure, as in per the ancient Faith? I think it might be ...
How far have you moved your understanding of God from being like a human? Could you give me a few sentences about what you think Plato was saying again? Just to see where you are at.First you say the men of the catholic church who came up with the trinity understood it because they were influenced by Plato.
Then you say Plato did not see God as a being to be worshipped, but one who should be engaged via intellect.
If you are claiming the catholic church who came up with the trinity, decided which books should be in the bible and which ones should not; who shaped much of what we know about Christianity today; did not want God to be worshipped; even though I will respect your opinion, I think there would be many on this forum who will disagree with you.
Many may disagree with me but what does that matter? I thought the goal was for you to understand the Trinity?
First you say the men of the catholic church who came up with the trinity understood it because they were influenced by Plato.
Then you say Plato did not see God as a being to be worshipped, but one who should be engaged via intellect.
If you are claiming the catholic church who came up with the trinity, decided which books should be in the bible and which ones should not; who shaped much of what we know about Christianity today; did not want God to be worshipped; even though I will respect your opinion, I think there would be many on this forum who will disagree with you.
Ken
Their ingrediants may be the same, (wood, nails, and varnish) but they are not the same pieces of furniture.
My twin brother and I may have the same ingrediants; (blood, bones, genetics,etc) but it would be ridiculas to claim we are the same person
Ken
How far have you moved your understanding of God from being like a human? Could you give me a few sentences about what you think Plato was saying again? Just to see where you are at.
I would tell you what the truth is, but it is against the rules.
My brother and I are both human but are only a fraction of the entity called "twins".Correct. But you and your twin are both human.
The key difference is that you and your twin are separate instances of human being, thus you are two different human beings. Whereas God is one instance of God-being as there is only one God-being.
It was pointed out to you. You said you would let me know when I went over your head but you didn't follow through with that. I have no idea what understanding you are working with when reading what I wrote, or if you are still clinging to understanding spiritual elements and God like a character on television.Actually my intrest is not in Plato. Thus far I've read much about Plato and none of it seems to answer my questions about understanding the Trinity. If it did, can you point it out for me?
K
I learned a lot from television, but nothing about God from television. The extent of what I learned about God came from the Bible and what other Christians said about God.It was pointed out to you. You said you would let me know when I went over your head but you didn't follow through with that. I have no idea what understanding you are working with when reading what I wrote, or if you are still clinging to understanding spiritual elements and God like a character on television.
It is puzzling why Plato is so hard to understand. The power of television to form opinions and maintain them is impressive.
[FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]Your understanding of words, including those in the Bible, comes from your experience with what the words describe. You know what a table is from encountering a table. You know what a shepherd is from seeing one. This is not the case with God, or the Holy Spirit or any other constants in the universe. This is where artistic representation comes in, both poetic and visual. The problem is that people have a tendency to take the artistic representation literally. They imagine God or gods as people in the sky watching over them with super powers.[/FONT]I learned a lot from television, but nothing about God from television. The extent of what I learned about God came from the Bible and what other Christians said about God.
[FONT="]The big problem is that people who have this thinking are unable to identify people who dont. They assume the meanings of the words to be how they understand them from art and assume everyone (now and in the past) is working with the same understanding. They are just making different points about the sky genies behavior or ability. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Your understanding of the words in discussion are so superstitious that you arent going to be able to understand or recognize a coherent point about the Trinity. [/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]The intellect is the middle part of the Trinity. Jesus personifying it with his life and death is the last part. An active God being the source of the middle part is the first part. There is no point discussing this until we are sure you arent working with anthropomorphic understandings of God.[/FONT]I understand Platos idea that God was not to be worshipped or sacrificed to but rather to be engaged via intellect; but how does that relate to the trinity?
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