Please correct my views

[Light_Arrow]

Dear all,

I am new to Christianity & would like to know more. I have the following questions & pls kindly correct me if wrong. Please kindly do not be personal(that you heard/read), & I hope all account to be truefully found in the bible. Pls kindly state where the actual text where possible.
I have a summary below.

First before my questions, from the viewpoint, Pls correct me
1. GOD is supreme/almighty/KNOW all/omnipotent/perfect
2. GOD creates everything
3. GOD creates very powerful angels/beings like lucifer who later rebel against him & which now label as the devil.
4. GOD gives them(including human) freewill/choice
5. Devil/Saturn/human err due to imperfection
6.

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, ?Did God really forbid you to eat from any tree in the garden?? ?You will not surely die,? the serpent said to the woman. ?For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.?
Genesis 3:1,4?5

Human sin due to disobedience to GOD, which the first sin is due to the disobedience of eating a apple?
7. We are now in the world - suffering due to disobdience to GOD.
8. GOD gives his only son - Jesus, who died to save us, so that we are forgiven.
9. We glorify GOD - we be with GOD, we do not glorify GOD/do not believe in a GOD(Omnipotent), be in other religion - we go to hell.
------------
If the following above are valid
I shall now go into the second viewpoint, in no particular order.

A. Human/saturn/devil/animals error makes mistakes due to ignorance, imperfection, pride & ego(due to delusion due to imperfection)/lack of experience
that is to say, all are due to our imperfection/ignorance & delusion.

B. GOD being almighty/perfect/all knowing gives us choices. He knows but he wants us to choose. We choose right, we get good, we choose wrong, we die.
-------------
The questions.

- A(my) child with free will, error due to ignorance/imperfection/delusion/lack of experience, not because of free will.
- An adult ("i"), with more knowledge/wisdom/wiser claiming parentage has the responsiblity to take care of/guide the(my) child.
-----------
(Part 1)
- A("my") child with free will, err due to ignorance/imperfection/delusion/lack of experience.
- An adult ("i"), claiming parentage has the responsiblity to take care of/guide the child. - PUNISHES the child - which err - due to free will/ ignorance/ imperfection/delusion/lack of experience

(Part 2)
- "I" punishes due to inability(imperfection) to teach (my) child, desperation to instill/enfore/lack of hope/method AND Child inability(imperfection) to understand/learn.
- All these could be solved easily & punishment not needed, if both (I) & (my) child are wiser/perfect.

(Part 3)
- (my) child err, again/disobdience, for disobdience, (I) put him in a room. (His/her brother/sister is there too.)
Room is filled with matches, papers, knives, drugs, etc. which by itself is not good/bad.
- Child due to imperfection/ignorance, err again, this time more worse & worse, taking drugs, matches that burns, knives, etc. (All these became "bad")
- Due to child ignorance/lack of experience/imperfection/temptation by equally imperfect/ignorant sibling.

(Part 4)
- I send his brother into the room to bleed/die so that he can be saved/"redeemed".

(Part 5)
- I being wiser(more perfect than them) gives them 2 choices or more

(5a) - MUST listen TO ME / CANNOT listen TO OTHERS
- To believe in me/glorify me, I will save them otherwise, let them fall into another worser state/environment due to disobedience(due to imperfection/ignorance)

(5b) - MUST listen TO ME/ can listen to OTHERS(as long GOOD VALUES/practise)
They can listen to others who teach them to do "GOOD"
- To believe/practise in my teachings, do what will not result them to suffer, like not play with the matches, do not take drugs (BUT hopefully they can understand & resist temptations (that I have put)) Their choices, take care of themselves or suffer on their own due to their lack of imperfection/ignorance or unable to resist temptations. Note as long as they do not do bad, I do not punish them.

------------
..... (BREAKING FREE from all delusions) - Part 1
-----

- Punishment do not solve problems, sign of desperation, lack of means
- Punishment only use when object under responsiblity is imperfect/cannot understand.
- Note if I as master being perfect/ability to create/control, create imperfection, that means my creation of imperfection is a deliberation.
- If not A being punishes due to NEED/WANT for authority, respect, desperation, lack of means & whereby the one under his/her guardian is imperfect/ignorance/lack of experience.

Summary:
Am I right to say, that the above, is -
A delusion of (deliberate imperfection in creation by a perfect being, save upon glorification, condemn/punishes in otherwise)

Breaking free - Part 2
-GOOD - a term to define someone who has done (me/i/my a comfort)/agreeable to my belief
-BAD - a term to define someone who has done (me/i/my a discomfort)/against my belief

 

[The Midge]

Dear all,

I am new to Christianity & would like to know more. I have the following questions & pls kindly correct me if wrong. Please kindly do not be personal(that you heard/read), & I hope all account to be truefully found in the bible. Pls kindly state where the actual text where possible.
I have a summary below.

Your are in the wrong forum for this kind of questioning.
I would love to help you out so will ask a MOD to move this to either "Questions About Christianity" or Edification> For New Christians.

This place is for debating with unbelievers not for building up newbies. Notice how quick they were to debunk you when they han'd even said "Welcome to Christian Forums". .

So please allow me the honour of extending you a warm welcome. I hope you have fun and learn a lot during your time here.

God Bless, Midge.

 

[jay1_z]

I'm not exactly sure what your question is. Could you plz clarify?

 

[roadie432002]

here are some links for bible study/answers.www.biblepath.com.wwwblueletterbible.org.www.hallindsey.org.www.jvim.com.welcome aboard.

 

[roadie432002]

wwwblueletterbible.org.www.hallindsey.org,www.jvim.com.

 

[Pseud]

Yeah ditto jay1_z...

Perhaps you could try asking your questions one at a time?

 

[kjd]

light_arrow, you do have alot of materials there...
just to clarify some very important mistakes... -.^

1) There is a big difference between the angels and man...
-: in the book of Relevations, it speaks that we will have the power to judge the angels... -.^ including Satan
-: Angels do NOT have the freewill to choose between right and wrong to the greater extent that man can. It has already been set forth those who are against God and those who follow Him. Satan and his followers are EVIL by nature, we HUMANS are SINFUL by nature (it's a BIG difference -.^)
-: This is by right no means saying that man can overpower Satan (and his followers), as we, by nature, are sinful...only the faithful may be given the opportunity to cast away evil (though it's by God's will)

2) The first sin is disobedience. Not following what has been directed by God. Becuase of Eve's foolishness (if i may say that ;-/), Adam was deceived by the fruits that Eve tempted him with. We are in this world to fulfill God's purpose. Period. Nothing more nothing less.

3) Jesus died for our sins. Doesn't mean we are saved. Being in the walk of christianity doesn't make it easy by saying "I believe in Jesus who died for me." In a christian walk, you have to abide to the teachings and values of His Word. NOT only believing that Jesus has died for our sins.

4) All religions teaches us to be with the god, to glorify it, to praise it, to believe in it, or we will face the consequences. BUT being with God, a servant for the Lord, is very different from any other religions on the face of the earth. We DO NOT only be with God, glorify/praise Him, and praise Him, we HAVE TO also abide to His guidance, His Word, and be faithful in the walk of Christ.

you have to clarify the rest...heehhehe ^^;; sorry... >.<

 

[Sketcher]

-: Angels do NOT have the freewill to choose between right and wrong to the greater extent that man can. It has already been set forth those who are against God and those who follow Him. and his followers are EVIL by nature, we HUMANS are SINFUL by nature (it's a BIG difference -.^)

I keep hearing this, but nobody can tell me where it is in Scripture. Where is it exactly?

2. GOD creates everything

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." - Colossians 1:16

GOD gives his only son - Jesus, who died to save us, so that we are forgiven.

John chapter 3.

We glorify GOD - we be with GOD, we do not glorify GOD/do not believe in a GOD(Omnipotent), be in other religion - we go to hell.

John 14:6 - "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Acts 4:12 - "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

That's all for now. That's a lot of questions.

 

[Light_Arrow]

pardon me for my ignorance & stupidity,
- why are we created with ignorance & angels with evil?

 

[Sketcher]

Evil is always a choice, and the devil chose evil. I mean, you can choose to obey or not to obey. The latter choice would be evil.

As for human ignorance, what exactly do you mean by that? Is it not being able to see the spiritual realm? Is it our gross insensitivity to sin in this world? Or are you referring to somthing else?

 

[seangoh]

Dear all,


First before my questions, from the viewpoint, Pls correct me
1. GOD is supreme/almighty/KNOW all/omnipotent/perfect
2. GOD creates everything
3. GOD creates very powerful angels/beings like lucifer who later rebel against him & which now label as the devil.
4. GOD gives them(including human) freewill/choice
5. Devil/Saturn/human err due to imperfection
6.
Human sin due to disobedience to GOD, which the first sin is due to the disobedience of eating a apple?
7. We are now in the world - suffering due to disobdience to GOD.
8. GOD gives his only son - Jesus, who died to save us, so that we are forgiven.
9. We glorify GOD - we be with GOD, we do not glorify GOD/do not believe in a GOD(Omnipotent), be in other religion - we go to hell.

Hi lightarrow, first of all. WELCOME TO CF!!!
I'm impressed that you've laid out your points in such a way. This really looks like an exam question for one of the modules i'm taking..lol.
Anyway, you have stated your 9 premises of which you went forth to present your reasoning. However, i would require that you further explain 2 of them, namely, 5 and 9 in case i misunderstood you. Like for question 5, what do you mean by imperfection?

Lastly, for 6, we don't know whether it was an apple that eve ate. All we know is it's a fruit(as you have quoted). Furthermore, i'd like to clarify this seemingly ridiculous act of eating a fruit that wasn't meant to be eaten that caused such a grave consequence (death to us). The penalty of disobedience is death "for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4. God had to put such a tree in the garden to enable man to act out his free choice. This was a distinct and clear way that would indicate man's disobedience. God is fair, He doesn't want to force us to obey Him. He gives us free will and it's the wrong exercise of free will that made man sin in the garden which is in line with point 5. So could God have barred Eve from sinning? Yes. Could God stop everyone in this world from stealing or lying or dying? Yes. But could God force a person to love Him? No. Because love isn't love if it's forced. If we were in God's shoes who wants to share the benefits and beauty of love, would you have done it the same way by giving everyone a free choice? Most probably, because that's the only way you can get genuine love. Hope it has enlightened you abit.

 

[Under_His_Shadow]

3. GOD creates very powerful angels/beings like lucifer who later rebel against him & which now label as the devil.
4. GOD gives them(including human) freewill/choice

Although both angels and man were created by God (Gen. 1:27; Ps. 148 : 2, 5 ; Col. 1 :16) one major difference between them is that humans are a race with the ability to add to their numbers through procreation, etc., unlike angels (Lk.20:34-36), which are a "company" or "group" of created beings, and from God's perspective all mankind sinned "in Adam" (1 Cor.15:22), or as theologians like to say, Adam was the representative, "federal head" of our race. Praise God, it's because of this fact that God can legally and justly allow Jesus Christ to be the Righteous Representative/Substitutionary Head for all who trust Him as their Savior!!

Fallen angels on the other hand, with their God-given will, having once chosen to reject God as their Sovereign, apparently are resigned to that choice for all eternity, and not being members of the human race, certainly have no Redeemer to call upon. "For surely it is not angels He (Christ) helps, but Abraham's descendants" (humans)(Heb.2:15).

U.H.S.
†

 

[Light_Arrow]

"I am not against any being, but the FALSE VIEW pple have of that being"

"A man who looks through a green spectacles will always look at everything green."
"Empty your cups 1st before you can fill in water."

True Gold is not afraid to be tried by Fire. Only blind believes.

Strip ur green glasses:
- There is a Creator
- A creator who can exist without being created
- A creator who despite being perfect, creates beings with choices
- Yet choices comes with strings attached.

In no order:

(A) He doesn't want to "force us" to obey Him
As mentioned:
"a grave consequence (death to us)."

Do not eat the apple = obey
Eat the apple = disobey = a grave consequence (death to us).

What choices are there?
Is this not with hidden strings attached? Is it not an EGOISTIC being whom you think to be, wants to give people a choice (TO GLORIFY his ego) yet with string attached, then how can you call this, free will?

You love a child/girlfriend/husband/wife, if he/she disobey you, you let him/her suffer?

1 life choice
Believe in him = save
Do not believe in him = not save (default)

Because of certain reasons, be it ignorance, saturn, etc.etc.etc that I do not believe in him as my creator, i will be condemn? IS this not FORCED Glorification? A THREAT?

(B)What is Evil? Who created Evil? Why do lucifer or the other devil wants to overthrow their superior?
It is not will, it is not choice, it is GREED & HATRED & IGNORANCE. GREED for power, Hatred to upthrow, etc. or a certain components & ingredients (IF YOU BELIEVE they were created by a GUY who KNOWs)

It doesn't justify that a POWERFUL BEING that came into existence without being created, creates other being with incredients or conditions that can be known as "Evil", tempt his other creation.

A perfect being that can creates without being created.
If you say he is perfect, then why is his creation, so imperfect? If you say his creation was perfect, then why can his creation, being perfect becomes imperfect? If you say it is FREE will, then I can tell you, will means choices, & if a choice is governed by conditions, it is not free. This DELUSION of this DELUDED being on one side says he does not want a robot, on the other hand, have THREATS that forces pple by FEAR, that if they do not believe/obey him will go to HELL.

At the end of the day, by all means if you want to serve such an EGOTISTIC God, that is your choice.

Amitabha

 

[al8322]

All consequences are based on actions. I'm a new Christian. So, I will use an analogy. If someone was to try and shoot you, wouldn't that be acting on their own free will? Their actions have conditions such a going to prison, which is a bad thing. So this is the same as not obeying God. He is just. How would our society be today if all the criminals claimed that they didn't free will becaused it was based on the condition that if they were to committ a crime they would go to jail? Do you think mass murderers should be free to run rampant because of this?

Here's another way to look at the situation: I believe in God and you don't or choose not to believe in Him. I feel that when I die I will lose nothing even though some may claim there is no God. But if there is,(which I know there is based on my faith in the unseen) , how much would you lose? If one believes there is life beyond death, then how much was it really worth to party it up on earth(assuming you live a long life) if the rest of your life is spent in the worst way imaginable?

I will be praying for you.

 

[Rafael]

"I am not against any being, but the FALSE VIEW pple have of that being"

"A man who looks through a green spectacles will always look at everything green."
"Empty your cups 1st before you can fill in water."

True Gold is not afraid to be tried by Fire. Only blind believes.

Strip ur green glasses:
- There is a Creator
- A creator who can exist without being created
- A creator who despite being perfect, creates beings with choices
- Yet choices comes with strings attached.

In no order:

(A) He doesn't want to "force us" to obey Him
As mentioned:
"a grave consequence (death to us)."

Do not eat the apple = obey
Eat the apple = disobey = a grave consequence (death to us).

What choices are there?
Is this not with hidden strings attached? Is it not an EGOISTIC being whom you think to be, wants to give people a choice (TO GLORIFY his ego) yet with string attached, then how can you call this, free will?

You love a child/girlfriend/husband/wife, if he/she disobey you, you let him/her suffer?

1 life choice
Believe in him = save
Do not believe in him = not save (default)

Because of certain reasons, be it ignorance, saturn, etc.etc.etc that I do not believe in him as my creator, i will be condemn? IS this not FORCED Glorification? A THREAT?

(B)What is Evil? Who created Evil? Why do lucifer or the other devil wants to overthrow their superior?
It is not will, it is not choice, it is GREED & HATRED & IGNORANCE. GREED for power, Hatred to upthrow, etc. or a certain components & ingredients (IF YOU BELIEVE they were created by a GUY who KNOWs)

It doesn't justify that a POWERFUL BEING that came into existence without being created, creates other being with incredients or conditions that can be known as "Evil", tempt his other creation.

A perfect being that can creates without being created.
If you say he is perfect, then why is his creation, so imperfect? If you say his creation was perfect, then why can his creation, being perfect becomes imperfect? If you say it is FREE will, then I can tell you, will means choices, & if a choice is governed by conditions, it is not free. This DELUSION of this DELUDED being on one side says he does not want a robot, on the other hand, have THREATS that forces pple by FEAR, that if they do not believe/obey him will go to HELL.

At the end of the day, by all means if you want to serve such an EGOTISTIC God, that is your choice.

Amitabha

You seem to think you have it figured out, but then go and create a world and then people it with your creation. Figure out then, how you will create in it love and yet not force it into a robotic type obedience of instruction....... Make life. You know what? I'll bet it is a bit more difficult that you can imagine, as it's easy to critisize God in His creation and how He suffers evil as a defining contrast to the light that He is. How better to perceive the light than to see it dispel the darkness?

Ro 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: