Pit Bulls

[OnTheWay]

Pit bulls are dangerous by nature. OnTheWay is an obnoxious, uneducated pain. Some things are just fact.

Wow, a three line posts by an old man that wouldn't know a bully breed from his viagra tablets. Color me unimpressed.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Pit bulls are dangerous by nature. OnTheWay is an obnoxious, uneducated pain. Some things are just fact.

I don't understand why they are claiming the media hypes the pit bull unfairly. Afterall, the OP is about a seven year old boy who was killed by pit bulls. Show me an example of another dog breed that has the track record for killing the pit bulls have.

I am not saying kill all the pitbulls- I am saying neutur them and let the breed evaporate.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Wow, a three line posts by an old man that wouldn't know a bully breed from his viagra tablets. Color me unimpressed.

The fact that you cannot post adressing the content and topic of a subject without including a personal attack against someone was the point of the post made against you.

You are not even a member of OBOB.

 

[BAFRIEND]

The dog rarely barked. He never growled, and his teeth - until a vicious attack Saturday night - had been reserved for chewing food, his owners say.

Chocolate - a caramel-colored pit bull a little more than a year old - was one of the most tranquil dogs Kenneth and Melissa Garrison had until, unprovoked, he snapped and nearly bit the nose off the couple's 1-year-old son.-Baltimore Sun

Although this is a newspaper article, it contains a graphic picture that will break your heart- the disfigured aftermath of a little child attacked by a pit bull. These owners probably held the same opinions about pit bulls some are posting in this thread- until there dog went ballistic on their toddler.

Kenneth Garrison heard the commotion from upstairs. He said he ran down, grabbed the dog by its neck and fought with it for about 10 minutes... The struggle left Kenneth Garrison with puncture wounds and hand lacerations. His arm remained in a soft cast yesterday... The attack on Jadyn was one in a series of recent pit bull maulings.

A June assault left an East Baltimore woman hospitalized with bites and gashes on her head, neck, arms and legs. In April, a 10-year-old Towson boy spent more than two weeks in the hospital recovering from his injuries, and two Baltimore sheriff's deputies shot and killed a pit bull as it was attacking a 7-year-old girl.

Baltimore Sun, may 30, 2008.

 

[PassthePeace1]

Part of the problems with statistics used against APBTs is that pit bull type dog is a catch all term for other breeds that resemble APBTs. Follow this link and see if you can identify the one APBT out of the 26 other breeds that are often identified by people as APBTs.

findpitbull_v4

 

[BAFRIEND]

Part of the problems with statistics used against APBTs is that pit bull type dog is a catch all term for other breeds that resemble APBTs. Follow this link and see if you can identify the one APBT out of the 26 other breeds that are often identified by people as APBTs.

findpitbull_v4

Actually, no one seems to being doing that as I am only seeing the term "pit bull" which is correctly used to describe dogs with the same physical attributes as the APBT.

The dogs that attacked the boy in the OP were in fact APBT.

 

[PassthePeace1]

Actually, no one seems to being doing that as I am only seeing the term "pit bull" which is correctly used to describe dogs with the same physical attributes as the APBT.

The dogs that attacked the boy in the OP were in fact APBT.

BF, I am talking about the accuracy of the statistics that are taking on a national level.....not OBOB. I can't tell you how many Black Mouth Cur dogs I have rescued, that were surrender to me under the label of a pit bull.....it's just real easy to confuse the breed with other breeds.

 

[OnTheWay]

Although this is a newspaper article, it contains a graphic picture that will break your heart- the disfigured aftermath of a little child attacked by a pit bull. These owners probably held the same opinions about pit bulls some are posting in this thread- until there dog went ballistic on their toddler.




Baltimore Sun, may 30, 2008.

While that's tragic when parents fail in their duties to watch their children worse things than dog bites can happen.
Here's a case involved a Pomeranian (breed standard requires the dog to be under 5 pounds) killing an infant: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/
Both stories run exactly the same thread, parents/care takers are irresponsible with their children and pets followed by bad things happening. The parents weren't watching the kid, the kid provokes the dog, and individuals like you want to blame the dog instead of the irresponsible parent. Yet for some reason I seriously doubt you want to blame guns when children kill eachother with them because the parents aren't supervising properly.

 

[OnTheWay]

BF, I am talking about the accuracy of the statistics that are taking on a national level.....not OBOB. I can't tell you how many Black Mouth Cur dogs I have rescued, that were surrender to me under the label of a pit bull.....it's just real easy to confuse the breed with other breeds.

In my time working with various rescue groups I'd have everything from Presa Canarios to smaller mastiffs come in as "pit bulls." In the OP's video one of the supposed attack dogs shown has ears that haven't been cropped but are standing, certainly not an APBT trait. The truth is many inidviduals, not unlike some in this thread, know next to nothing about dogs and even less about APBT's or any bully breed. Are people that lack the mental acumen to find out the urban legend that APBT have magical locking jaws is just a silly myth the kind of people anyone should listen to on BSL or any other dog related issue?

 

[BAFRIEND]

While that's tragic when parents fail in their duties to watch their children worse things than dog bites can happen.
Here's a case involved a Pomeranian (breed standard requires the dog to be under 5 pounds) killing an infant: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/
Both stories run exactly the same thread, parents/care takers are irresponsible with their children and pets followed by bad things happening. The parents weren't watching the kid, the kid provokes the dog, and individuals like you want to blame the dog instead of the irresponsible parent. Yet for some reason I seriously doubt you want to blame guns when children kill eachother with them because the parents aren't supervising properly.

The child from my post was provoking a pit bull because he sat on the otherside of the room with a chocolate cookie in his hand ?

The people you state are irresponible had a history of ownership with pit bulls and knew the history and tempermant of the one in their home. Yet, unprovoked it killed their own two year old. So in that sense they were irresponsible. Not because they were not watching the kid- but because in fact they should have known better about the breed of dog and its killer instincts.

I have a complaint above against me in the case of rottweillers where I am accused of using an "exception" to the rule- yet you have to dig to find a story about a pomeranian that is 8 years old. My latest post on the toddler we days ago and the boy killed in Texas less than two weeks old. now you bring in the unrelated topic of firearms which you state that you doubt I would offer a specific opinion when in fact you have no idea whatsoever my opinion would be.

 

[AMDG]

Not because they were not watching the kid- but because in fact they should have known better about the breed of dog and its killer instincts.

For your own sake, I hope you realize that it isn't just the "breed". Tragedies can happen with kids and dogs period. It's not just with "pit bulls". All dogs. To simply ban "pit bulls" would simply give people a false feeling of security so they wouldn't have their children take care around dogs And it certainly wouldn't be fair because there are many dogs that are called pit bulls when they are not. (I think I know dogs pretty well, but it took me 16 tries on that find the pit bull game before I actually found it!)

And again I hope for your sake that you realize that children are naturally closer to any dog's teeth, have higher pitched voices and squeal a lot (like squeaky toys), make fast movements and run ("wow, what a fun game of chase!"), tend to tease dogs (pull on their ears or tails or fur and/or blow in their faces or poke at it or even just stare) and not to notice a dog's early warning signs (stiffening or freezing).

Any dog can be guilty. All dogs must be "child proofed" and parents of children should teach their children how to act around dogs and also be vigilant.

 

[BAFRIEND]

For your own sake, I hope you realize that it isn't just the "breed". Tragedies can happen with kids and dogs period. It's not just with "pit bulls". All dogs. To simply ban "pit bulls" would simply give people a false feeling of security so they wouldn't have their children take care around dogs And it certainly wouldn't be fair because there are many dogs that are called pit bulls when they are not. (I think I know dogs pretty well, but it took me 16 tries on that find the pit bull game before I actually found it!)

And again I hope for your sake that you realize that children are naturally closer to any dog's teeth, have higher pitched voices and squeal a lot (like squeaky toys), make fast movements and run ("wow, what a fun game of chase!"), tend to tease dogs (pull on their ears or tails or fur and/or blow in their faces or poke at it or even just stare) and not to notice a dog's early warning signs (stiffening or freezing).

Any dog can be guilty. All dogs must be "child proofed" and parents of children should teach their children how to act around dogs and also be vigilant.

The pit bull, due to its breeding is far far more dangerous and lethal than other breeds and is more likely than other dogs to respond violently to innocent play from children than other breeds.

As for teaching children to act around dogs- the last article I posted a child was attacked from across the room for holding up a cookie and was only two years old. The boy from the OP was attacked by four pit bulls while walking on a public road.

 

[Ceili]

Not the breed,please get this straight. It's the way they've been socialized.

 

[OnTheWay]

The pit bull, due to its breeding is far far more dangerous and lethal than other breeds and is more likely than other dogs to respond violently to innocent play from children than other breeds.

Let's deal with this completely ignorant statement for a minute. The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org) preforms extensive temperament research which consists of putting dogs into situations were aggressive responses could be warrented. A description of the testing can be found at the website, lets look at how the APBT did against the AKC's top ten breeds (the AKC list can be found at http://www.akc.org/reg/dogreg_stats.cfm):
The APBT had a pass rate of 84.3% and the Amstaff 83.4% for an average of 83.9%. So here are the dogs on the top 10 list:
Labrador Retrievers did a little better at 91.8%
Yorkshire Terriers scored lower at 82.1%
German Shepherd Dogs scored lower at 83.5%
Golden Retrievers score lower than the APBT score at 84.2%
Beagles score lower at 80.3%
Boxers carry an equal pass rate to the APBT at 84.3%
Dachshund types are separated on the ATTS scores, but not for the AKC registration numbers. Doxies average score is lower at 78.5%
Poodle types fell into the same catagory as Doxies, Poodles averaged lower at 81.2%
The ShihTzu scores notably lower at 77.5%
English Bulldogs also notably lower at 70%

There you have it, of the top 10 breeds one has a better score than the APBT and one is equal to the APBT. 8 out of 10 of the most popular breeds in America are more likely to respond with aggression than an APBT.

So let's look at your track record in this thread. You've falsely claimed:

1.The APBT was bred for fighting. You were demonstrated to have been telling a falsehood, the APBT got its start as a butcher's dog.

2.You've repeated the false claim that the APBT is more dangerous than other dogs, we've just demonstrated that to be completely false. In fact, apart from a couple of news articles and silly claims you continue to make you haven't provided any evidence for anything you've said. A couple of news articles against the hundreds of thousands of bully breed dogs in the US are meaningless. It's the exact same ignorance employed by Neo-Nazi's to use a single news story about minorities as if it proves something about the group.

3.You've claimed that the APBT has a magical locking jaw known to no other dog breed. You've been corrected on that silly tid bit of ignorance.


I'm going to be charitable here, you don't know anything about dogs and you know less about the APBT. You're certainly not alone in your ignorance, and that's a sad reality. Instead of trying to argue with people that do and continue making yourself look foolish, why not just admit you don't know what your're talking about and let the thread die. You're wrong, you know it happens to us all from time to time.

 

[BAFRIEND]

So let's look at your track record in this thread. You've falsely claimed:

1.The APBT was bred for fighting. You were demonstrated to have been telling a falsehood, the APBT got its start as a butcher's dog.

According to the wikipedia article on APBT this is not true:

The Bulldog that is the ancestor of the APBT was used for many types of work including baiting, fighting, stock work, hunting, and as a farm dog... As dog fighting declined in popularity in the United States in the early 20th century, many dog owners wanted to legitimize the breed and distance it from its fighting roots

2.You've repeated the false claim that the APBT is more dangerous than other dogs, we've just demonstrated that to be completely false. In fact, apart from a couple of news articles and silly claims you continue to make you haven't provided any evidence for anything you've said.

Actually, I quoted the Center for Disease Control that states that the Pit Bull is at the top of the list of the 10 most dangerous dogs. That is not any evidence aside from some news clips ?

3.You've claimed that the APBT has a magical locking jaw known to no other dog breed. You've been corrected on that silly tid bit of ignorance.

I never said that those powerful jaws were unique to the breed, in fact you stated that they had powerful jaws because they needed them to grab onto the snouts of livestock.

I'm going to be charitable here, you don't know anything about dogs and you know less about the APBT.

My parents owned a dog kennel while I was growing up. We had Great Danes, Chows, finally Shar Peis- sometimes over 40 dogs at a time.

Also, I know enough about the APBT not to trust any sources that link back to their breeding community and societies. I provided an article on here where owners who have had up to four at a time had their toddler's nose bit off by one.

Pit Bulls have the following distinctive behavioral characteristics:
a) grasping strength
b) climbing and hanging ability
c) weight pulling ability
d) a history of frenzy, which is the trait of unusual relentless ferocity or the extreme concentration on fighting and attacking
e) a history of catching, fighting, and killing instinct
f) the ability to be extremely destructive and aggressive
g) highly tolerant of pain
h) great biting strength
i) undying tenacity and courage and they are highly unpredictable.
Vanater v. South Point, 717 F. Supp. 1236, 1240-41 (S.D. Ohio 1989).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G700_zPJ1eU

 

[OnTheWay]

According to the wikipedia article on APBT this is not true:

Wikipedia isn't a source, people as daft as you can write the articles.

Actually, I quoted the Center for Disease Control that states that the Pit Bull is at the top of the list of the 10 most dangerous dogs. That is not any evidence aside from some news clips ?

You never addressed the huge flaws in the CDC's so called "study." Instead you started posting a couple of articles.

I never said that those powerful jaws were unique to the breed, in fact you stated that they had powerful jaws because they needed them to grab onto the snouts of livestock.

Actually in post 31 you attempted to defend this stupidity and then suddenly dropped the issue. I would imagine you did a little google search and realized you'd been caught.

My parents owned a dog kennel while I was growing up. We had Great Danes, Chows, finally Shar Peis- sometimes over 40 dogs at a time.

Those aren't dog breeders, sounds like back yard breeders or worse, puppy mill operators. A good breeder devotes their career to their chosen breed, nor would a good breeder ever have 40 dogs around. Great Danes and Chow Chows were both military dogs, with extensive histories of violence. Chows are some of the most nasty and unstable dogs in existence. Anyone with half a brain would rather be in a room with a dozen APBT than a strange Chow. At any rate, the topic is done. I have no time to spend arguing with fools, willful ignorance cannot be overcome by facts or reason.

 

[BAFRIEND]

I think it is always funny how the pit bull supporters always claim that there is some kind of evil vendetta against the breed by the media, always try to talk down those trying to publicize or educate on the pit bull, always seem to be the one's who aggressively attack others on a personal level for their views (somehow this aggressiveness seems to be a trait shared by pit bull supporters).

Yet all the personal testimony they provide and links to pit bull societies etc cannot erase the truth of a single image either video or photo of what these dogs are capable of. You do not have to search far and wide for the truth of the attacks.

Why be so angry and declaritive against the media- you don't think a seven year old mauled to death by pit bulls is a notable news story ?

Is this a lie too ?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bY4C0yXO7I

 

[MrJim]

Our neighbor has a breeding pair + another male (son of the breeding pair)~they've had two litters since they've moved in about a year ago. That's 4 total (two prior) and they're big litters (9 & 7).

The dogs seem friendly enough; always come up and get their petting~however, the neighbor put up a 7' fence, and I do sorta feel better about that.

Wife won't let me get a pup...

 

[AMDG]

however, the neighbor put up a 7' fence, and I do sorta feel better about that.

Funny thing about fences--they are used to keep things in and they are used to keep things out . In today's society, it's often an unfortunate necessity to keep out unauthorized people who might want to steal a pup to make it mean and nasty or those rotten people wanting to harm the dogs.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Part of the problems with statistics used against APBTs is that pit bull type dog is a catch all term for other breeds that resemble APBTs. Follow this link and see if you can identify the one APBT out of the 26 other breeds that are often identified by people as APBTs.

This is the standard of the law in regards to identifying dogs as pit bulls:

The Court concludes that the definitions of a Pit Bull Terrier in this Ordinance are not unconstitutionally vague. An ordinary person could easily refer to a dictionary, a dog buyer's guide or any dog book for guidance and instruction; also, the American Kennel Club and United Kennel Club have set forth standards for Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Stafforshire Terriers to help determine whether a dog is described by any one of them. While it may be true that some definitions contain descriptions which lack "mathematical certainty," such precision and definiteness is not essential to constitutionality. See Dandridge, 397 U.S. at 485, 90 S.Ct. at 1161; see also Grayned v. City of Rockford, 408 U.S. 104, 110, 92 S.Ct. 2294, 2299, 33 L.Ed.2d 222 (1972).
The Court concludes that Ordinance 87?6 sets forth a meaningful standard which can be used to identify those dogs subject to its prohibition and that the Pit Bull has certain phenotypical characteristics in its appearance which allows this breed of dog to be identifiable.

...and they are highly unpredictable.
*1241 While these traits, tendencies or abilities are not unique to Pit Bulls exclusively, Pit Bulls will have these instincts and phenotypical characteristics; most siginficantly, such characteristics can be latent and may appear without warning or provocation.
The breeding history of Pit Bulls makes it impossible to rule out a violent propensity for any one dog as gameness and aggressiveness can be hidden for years. Given the Pit Bull's genetical physical strengths and abilities, a Pit Bull always poses the possibility of danger; given the Pit Bull's breeding history as a fighting dog and the latency of its aggressiveness and gameness, the Pit Bull poses a danger distinct from other breeds of dogs which do not so uniformly share those traits.
While Pit Bulls are not the only breed of dog which can be dangerous or vicious, it is reasonable to single out the breed to anticipate and avoid the dangerous aggressiveness which may be undetectable in a Pit Bull... The control of dogs falls within the "public health" and "safety" provisions. Downing v. Cook, 69 Ohio St.2d 149, 431 N.E.2d 995 (1982). The United States Supreme Court has held that government retains great power and discretion to control, prohibit and even destroy dogs without offending the constitutional rights of their owners. In *1242Sentell v. New Orleans and Carrollton R.R., 166 U.S. 698, 17 S.Ct. 693, 41 L.Ed. 1169 (1897), -Vanater v. South Point, 717 F. Supp. 1236, 1240-41 (S.D. Ohio 1989).