Pirated software

[Nathan56]

My buddy runs a studio in his room, and the software he uses I think he downloaded off the internet. Im recording there this friday, and Im having mixed feelings about this. Some people tell me that it is alright, and pirated software is not a big deal. On the other hand I hear that it is illegal and I should submit to authority. What should I do? Go on and record? if not how can I duck out of this without letting my friend and my band down?

 

[Digit]

Heya Nathan56,

Please read this wonderful post by my fiance.
The nutshell version I feel, is that it is wrong. You know it is in your heart already, as you are having doubts about doing it. My advice is to stand with God, and do not steal, or use stolen goods for your own gain.

In regards to letting your friends down: First up, is to ask outright if the software is legitimate. As right now you have a feeling but are not 100% sure. This way you can eliminate any doubt and possible misunderstandings. Secondly, is based on that answer. If it isn't, good luck with your recording session and the band. If it is, I suggest standing firm to your beliefs, and declining his kind offer, and talking to your band. Should they question it and pressure you, face them with this part of the post I linked you to:

"A favourite illustration my fiance uses when discussing music or software piracy with others: "What is the difference between downloading an MP3 or a program without paying for it, and walking into a store, picking up a CD or a software box, and walking out without paying for it?" The usual response he gets to that is: "Well, when I download the music/program, I'm far less likely to be caught." I think the illegal implications of that answer are pretty evident."

All the best, I hope it works out. Please post back and let us know.

Digit

 

[Nathan56]

I am thinking of backing out, I am pressured because my bassist is leaving for school and wont be back for a long time, so we wanted to get our EP out and find a fill-in for the time he is gone. Hes leaving next week, we are scheduled to record friday. I just sent a message to the producer, told him that I havent gotten lyircs done yet and that im busy. Im still kinnda on the fence though

 

[sinneD]

Nathan:

You may want to consider the legal aspects. If you use pirated software in producing your work, you could possibly be held liable or accountable for that.

One possible solution is to ask your friend to produce a signed statement that the software being used is legal, and has not been obtained in an illegal manner.

This then reduces your exposure should the issue ever come up, and also places the burden on him more so than you.

 

[Nathan56]

The software goes for arounf $140, he got it off of limewire for free. I am not afraid of getting busted by the law, Im just worried of how I may be guilty in His eyes.

 

[Theogonia]

I use pirated software.

If I had money, I would buy the software legitimately.

I don't have money, and since I can do so many great things with the software that I normally couldn't afford, I don't have any problems with it.

This though, is completely different. You're worried about what God will think of you if you use software that you had nothing to do with the obtaining of.

This has nothing to do with you, if there is any sin to be attributed by God, it will be attributed to your friend. You are not helping him to "sin".

 

[encouraging loves animals]

It is wrong to use pirated copies of software. To me pirated copies of software are SIN.

 

[tapero]

Not to encourage it.

However, please remember how many of us use to copy cassettes without a second thought when they were the rage.

 

[Digit]

I use pirated software.

If I had money, I would buy the software legitimately.

This is a poor justification.

If I had the money, I would drive a Porsche. But I don't, therefore I will steal one instead. Does that sound right to you?

I don't have money, and since I can do so many great things with the software that I normally couldn't afford, I don't have any problems with it.

How about - if I murdered a rich person, and had all their money, I could do such wonderful things for other people. That any better? Lets take out the murder aspect. How about if I just stole all that money for the rich person, then did amazing things with it? That's ok right?

Ridiculous, please think about these things before comitting to a plan of action based around weak justifications. Stealing in the Lord's eyes, is stealing, no matter how much you justify it.

This though, is completely different. You're worried about what God will think of you if you use software that you had nothing to do with the obtaining of.

We should all be thinking of God with our actions and encouragements, and if they please Him.

This has nothing to do with you, if there is any sin to be attributed by God, it will be attributed to your friend. You are not helping him to "sin".

This has everything to do with him, because he is using stolen products, with full consent and knowledge. That makes him accountable, in God's eyes. It's like saying that it's ok to watch someone kill another person, as long as you don't help them, and when they share out the dead persons belongings, it's ok, because you didn't sin and commit murder. Man, I could go on forever with examples of this, it's so blatantly incorrect I cannot fathom how anyone could justify otherwise.

Digit

 

[Digit]

Not to encourage it.

However, please remember how many of us use to copy cassettes without a second thought when they were the rage.

In hindsight, we have all done wrong things, either without or with knowledge. The fact that Nathan56 is already uncomfortable, and fully aware of the wrong here, is enough to show he is passed that stage of blissful ignorance.

I think there is only really two issues here. One is if Nathan decides to back out, if he will voice his reasons truly, or 'call in sick' so to speak. I wouldn't blame him if he did the latter to be truthful. Two is if Nathan understands why it's just as sinful as if he had pirated the software for himself.

To me, that would fully convict him that this is wrong, and all future decisions will be crystal clear in his mind.

Digit

 

[Theogonia]

This is a poor justification.

If I had the money, I would drive a Porsche. But I don't, therefore I will steal one instead. Does that sound right to you?

How about - if I murdered a rich person, and had all their money, I could do such wonderful things for other people. That any better? Lets take out the murder aspect. How about if I just stole all that money for the rich person, then did amazing things with it? That's ok right?

Ridiculous, please think about these things before comitting to a plan of action based around weak justifications. Stealing in the Lord's eyes, is stealing, no matter how much you justify it.


We should all be thinking of God with our actions and encouragements, and if they please Him.



This has everything to do with him, because he is using stolen products, with full consent and knowledge. That makes him accountable, in God's eyes. It's like saying that it's ok to watch someone kill another person, as long as you don't help them, and when they share out the dead persons belongings, it's ok, because you didn't sin and commit murder. Man, I could go on forever with examples of this, it's so blatantly incorrect I cannot fathom how anyone could justify otherwise.

Digit

This comes from the idea that all sin is the same in God's eyes. Obviously, stealing a gumball is exactly the same to God as raping and murdering hundreds of little girls.

But that's beside the point. The thing is, downloading programs is simply not the same as stealing money, or killing someone.

You can believe it is, but ultimately the "morality" here I believe lies with us and not God.

I simply just don't see the big problem here. I don't download every program I want. I only have a few. And I don't redistribute or sell these programs. It's nothing like that.

I merely utilize them for personal use.

Maybe I'm wrong, but then again, maybe you're wrong. Or yet even again, maybe none of us is wrong, and the moral choice is relative in this area.

 

[Digit]

This comes from the idea that all sin is the same in God's eyes. Obviously, stealing a gumball is exactly the same to God as raping and murdering hundreds of little girls

I can't speak for God of course, but I believe we are told to flee from sin, no matter what shape or form it comes in. In this case, yes it is the same as in it warrants the same judgement.

But that's beside the point. The thing is, downloading programs is simply not the same as stealing money...

Yes, actually it is exactly the same thing. The reason you pirate things, is probably twofold.
1) It's free.
2) You won't get caught.
Would you walk into a shop and steal the program from the shelf and walk out? No. Why not? You may get caught. Would you go and buy all the programs you own now? No. Why not? It would be too expensive for a one-shot outlay.

Bottom line, is that if you bought the program, someone, somewhere, would get revenue for it. By not buying it, they are not getting the money, meaning you have just stolen from them.

... or killing someone

No it's not the same to us with our mortal eyes, but to God both are sins.

You can believe it is, but ultimately the "morality" here I believe lies with us and not God.

God sets our moral guidelines for us. We cannot decided what to adhere to when. As Christians we strive to live up to God's perfect standards. We don't choose when to do this, so that it suits us. We are told to tell the truth, even if it means our death. That doesn't sound like God is being very flexible with his moral guidelines. He is not saying you can do it as long as nothing adversely bad happens. We are totally subjective with our morals, God isn't, and as such He is the moral standard we are to live to.

I simply just don't see the big problem here.

Well I truly hope you can be open-minded and come around to seeing it the way it is. I am not saying this, and secretly having a stash of pirated software on my PC. Recently my fiance and I went through our machines and ditched every single pirated program, or keygen-ed/cracked piece of software from our PCs. I deleted 1000s of MP3s... subsequently I now have zero music to listen to. It sucks. When we buy games to play together, we purchase two copies, not one. We need two, to run them both simultaneously and play together. It's expensive. It's not convenient, but doing the right thing has never been easy. I do firmly believe in the long run, it is worth it though.

I don't download every program I want. I only have a few.

I don't steal all the time, only when it suits me.
I don't lie all the time, only when I need to.
I don't sleep with all the girls, only those I want to.

That sounds like a world without God to me. We can't pick and choose. Sinning a little, is still sinning.

And I don't redistribute or sell these programs. It's nothing like that.

I'm glad you don't. Neither did I, but the closer I got to God, the worse I felt about even owning them and using them. Especially when I work in the games industry, and was a veritable flagship for anti-game piracy. What a hippocrit I was. When I pirated anything non-game related all the time.

I merely utilize them for personal use.

It truly makes no difference what you use them for.

Maybe I'm wrong but then again, maybe you're wrong. Or yet even again, maybe none of us is wrong, and the moral choice is relative in this area.

This sounds like one of those things where we just give in to the neutrality of the situation and agree to not conflicting anymore.

"Maybe we just don't know what's going on, lets all be friends, and do what we like, I'm not right, you're not right, who cares?! *dances around in a circle*"

Can I suggest an alternative:
Maybe we should look at life through God's eyes, and make real accountable decisions today to better ourselves, and move closer to Him.

Digit

 

[Onlythingavailable]

Piracy is real issue. A lot of people dismiss it and just think that the big companies lose a little bit of money. It hurts everyone, and it's very close to you as well. I don't know how serious you are with your band, but if you ever start selling music you might end up on the "receiving end" of piracy. I don't think anyone in the music industry can support piracy without shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[tapero]

Please note that there is no debating allowed in Recovery.. Thank you.

 

[BelindaP]

Copying of cassettes for personal use falls under the "fair use" provision of the law. Therefore, it is not against the law.

When Paul speaks about Christian liberty, he clearly states that if it offends your conscience, you should not do it, even if the scriptures are silent on the issue. It seems to me that Nathan56 would be sinning against his conscience to proceed.

 

[Nathan56]

Well, I just called my bassist and left him a message saying that there is no way I could be ready for friday. I still gotta re-work some lyrics, and we need to finish writing an entire piece. I told him not to sweat it and that we will write more when he gets back. In the meantime im geussing we'll just play some shows and such.

 

[praying]

Thread moved from Recovery - General Struggles

 

[SallyNow]

Not to encourage it.

However, please remember how many of us use to copy cassettes without a second thought when they were the rage.

Copying cassette tapes for personal use falls under a different catagory than using pirated software. For instance, a mix tape of favorite songs that you have the store-bought CD or cassette tape of, to be given to a friend, is allowed by music companies. A CD-Rom of software is not.

That's why, with things like iTunes, you can download a song and have it on your iPod, your computer, and on a CD to play in your car... but why you can't copy out Windows, one to use on your laptop, another on your PC, but instead have to buy two copies.

Copyright laws are weird, but there for a reason.

Why not ask if the person can download some open source software to record your music with? It may require some equitment adjustments, and a change in the sound quality, but you could still get your stuff recorded.

 

[BelindaP]

That's an excellent idea. There is a lot of freeware available.

 

[Steezie]

I fail to see how pirating software would be considered sin.

You arent stealing as no one has been deprived of anything. The original person still has thier copy of the program