Picture This, and Risk Arrest

Johnboy60

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But how could Amtrak — the national railroad, whose preferred stock is owned by the American public and whose chief executive and board of directors are appointed by the president and confirmed by Congress — require that a Web site criticizing the railroad be shut down as a condition of settling a lawsuit for wrongful arrest?

What an odd question.

How could they? They clearly negotiated that the guy take it down in exchange for money as part of the settlement. This kind of thing happens all the time. Why is the author of the article surprised by it?
 
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Billnew

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Taking pictures of modes of transportation is illegal?

May the stupidity and hysteria that followed 9-11 come to an end, someday.

People take pictures of trains, I know, as a kid, I was taken to remote locations with unique bridges, and found things to do while my dad took endless pictures of boring trains.
He is a train buff, I am not. Well, except for the old ones. I will go to see steam engines, but would not go out of my way to see a modern train.
 
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Dale

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Let me try to clarify this. Is it supposed to be illegal to take a picture of a train station or just a moving train?

Where I live we have a quaint old train station. I'm sure the newspapers have run pictures of it and the same is true of train stations in adjoining towns. I wouldn't be surprised if there has been a postcard of our quaint train station at some time or other. Is all this supposed to be illegal?


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Maren

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You mean when I buy an ticket for Amtrak, a regulated monopoly, part of the money goes to pay people not to criticize Amtrak? Do they have permission from the Department of Transportation to do this?


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Your premise is wrong. Amtrak was sued because their security guards wrongfully arrested people for taking pictures -- that is what part of the ticket price goes for. Since Amtrak was being sued and would lose on the facts, they decided to settle for likely less than it would have cost them to lose in court and, at the same time, they threw in a clause not allowing the person who sued Amtrak to criticize them. Actually sounds pretty smart on Amtrak's part to get the people to settle and to get them to agree not to criticize Amtrak.
 
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Dale

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Okay, I've looked up Amtrak's actual regulations on the subject. They are ambivalent but they do put some restrictions on photography.

General statement of Amtrak Policy:

Amtrak - News Media Contacts & Access

Permission to Photograph

Amtrak recommends that permission in advance for news reporting and professional photography on Amtrak trains, at stations or on other Amtrak property be obtained from Amtrak Media Relations. Reporters and photographers should contact the media relations office in their region.


Amtrak Regulations:

Amtrak - Plan - Policies - Photography & Video Recording



Amtrak Corporate Guidelines on Photography and Video Recording
Section I. Policy

The taking of photographs and/or videos is permitted within public access areas on Amtrak property and as otherwise stated in Section III.

In emergency and/or special circumstances (for example, declared elevation of Homeland Security Advisory System to High or Severe - orange and red) and where actions are deemed suspicious or inconsistent with this policy by observing/reporting persons, photographers and videographers may be approached and questioned to determine if further investigation or action is necessary.

Photography and video recording within restricted areas are prohibited. Individuals found in a restricted area will be subject to investigation and possible arrest and seizure of photography and/or video recording equipment may occur pursuant to the arrest. This policy applies in all circumstances, including where Amtrak may be promoting a photography contest or event.
Section II. Definitions

Commercial and Special Photography. Photography that requires explicit authorization from Amtrak and includes engagements for commercial gain or profit such as, movie films, commercial television productions, and photography for commercial advertisements.

Photography. Photography shall mean the taking of moving and/or still images.

Public Area. An area open to general public access and occupancy (station areas and platforms for ticketed passengers only) that is not otherwise posted or restricted by posted signs or locking devices. Signage, building design and physical barriers, i.e. fencing, bollards, etc., may also distinguish a public area from a restricted area.

Restricted Area. A restricted area is any area not open to or occupied by the public, or is open to or occupied by the public on a limited basis. Signage, building design and physical barriers, i.e. fencing, bollards, etc., may also distinguish a restricted area from a public area.

Restricted areas include but are not limited to the following:

1. Platforms (ticketed passengers are exempt)
2. Crew and Employee Work Areas
3. Maintenance Facilities
4. Unoccupied Trains and Engines
5. Office Areas
6. Employee Elevators
7. Baggage/Delivery Areas
8. Commissaries
9. Right of Way and Track Areas
10. In service train cars

Section III. Exceptions

1. Commercial and Special Photography. Prior arrangements must be made with Amtrak's Real Estate Department at (215) 349-1238 for approval.
2. News Photography. Members of the news media are entitled to the same access for photography purposes as the general public. News media may request additional access by contacting the Amtrak Media Relations Office, 202-906-3860. Amtrak recommends that members of the news media present valid press credentials when they film (print and video photography) in the public areas at Amtrak's stations and strongly encourages the news media to contact Amtrak's Media Relations Office in advance to facilitate and ensure appropriate access, particularly at major Amtrak stations. As a courtesy, Media Relations Representatives will frequently issue a letter or accompany news media in the Northeast, Chicago and California regions. It is understood that during breaking news events advance contact with Amtrak's Media Relations Office may not be possible.
3. Ticketed Passengers on platforms may photograph or video record during the time they are preparing to board or immediately after alighting from a train. Equipment is limited to hand-held devices. Such photography, including equipment set-up will be done in a reasonable, safe and timely manner.
4. Ticketed passengers on board trains may take photos or video record on a train when it does not interfere with passengers or crew and in accordance with any directions given by Amtrak onboard train personnel.
5. Other photography or video recording not covered by this policy requires advance approval from the area Amtrak Station Manager.

Section IV. Law Enforcement

Amtrak Police and Security personnel may approach photographers and videographers upon a complaint from a member of the public or Amtrak personnel that the activity is suspicious in nature, or based upon their own observation that the activity is suspicious in nature or inconsistent with this policy.

1. Amtrak Police and Security Personnel will advise the individual that an inquiry is being conducted for security purposes. Amtrak Police and Security personnel will follow established departmental regulations in this area.
2. Nothing in this policy limits or expands the authority of Amtrak police officers to initiate and pursue investigations, perform a pat down or frisk based upon reasonable suspicion, and/or conduct searches based upon probable cause or any recognized exception to the probable cause requirement in accordance with all legal authority. But the taking of photographs and/or video may not, in and of itself, rise to the level of reasonable suspicion or probable cause.

End of Regulations

As I read the above, anyone who hasn't bought a ticket could be arrested and have their camera confiscated simply for taking a picture at an Amtrak station on the platform. The same would apply to anyone taking a photo of an unoccupied train, or of the baggage area. I am having trouble seeing what any of these things have to do with protecting the public.

Amtrak seems to believe that taking pictures is more than halfway to probable cause for an arrest.


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theblackcat

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I've ridden Amtrak a few dozen times because they provide a regular route between my university and home. Lots of times I've taken pictures either of the trains/stations or from the moving train. It's a quaint way of travelling. Never had any problem with it. If they don't want non-customers taking pictures though I guess that's fine. It's their property. I wouldn't want strangers photographing my house or car without permission either.
 
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