Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

Norman321 · May 25, 2012

Guy1 said:
How is quoting a sermon scientific to begin with?

R U saying you want scientific evidence for the resurrection or for Chi? Because like I said, the attribute this to spontaneous remission when they witness unexpected improvement. If someone were to raise from the dead then they would claim that person was never dead. Someone somewhere must have made a mistake.

Luke 8:10 He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

Norman321 · May 25, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
Maybe, after six thousand years, you'd have a concise definition of soul.

I am not trying to tell you what God says a soul is. We are using man's dictionary here. You can do a google search and come up with a definition.

Guy1 · May 25, 2012

Norman321 said:
R U saying you want scientific evidence for the resurrection or for Chi?

I want clear, concise definitions or the two terms, the mechanisms through which they work, the predictions that can be made with these ideas, and a way to falsify them. Only then can we talk evidence.

Norman321 said:
Because like I said, the attribute this to spontaneous remission when they witness unexpected improvement.

That's basically doctors throwing their hands up and saying "I have no clue why this happened." So this makes no real sense to me.

Norman321 said:
If someone were to raise from the dead then they would claim that person was never dead. Someone somewhere must have made a mistake.

Of course they were never dead. Because the lack of a heartbeat and the death of brain cells wasn't a good enough signal.

CaliforniaSun · May 25, 2012

Greg1234 said:
It's funny how in all their wisdom they have no control over the course of things. And whether a man hides in a BMW, a 747, or puts his head under a coffee machine, his "luck" is neither improved nor diminished one iota. What has to happen still happens, what is deflected recurs, and what is engineered is used to demonstrate the same will of God in the lives of men.

So, does praying have any measurable effect on the "will of God"? If so, how would you know?

Greg1234 · May 25, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
So, does praying have any measurable effect on the "will of God"?

Prayer is only a single part of the process. You do know that, right?

If so, how would you know?

Keep your bible handy.

Norman321 · May 25, 2012

Guy1 said:
Of course they were never dead. Because the lack of a heartbeat and the death of brain cells wasn't a good enough signal.

When your heart stops does that mean your dead? What if they shock you and get your heart going again. Then what?

Guy1 · May 25, 2012

Norman321 said:
When your heart stops does that mean your dead? What if they shock you and get your heart going again. Then what?

These days we go by the death of cells in a certain part of the brain to tell if one can't be revived. Otherwise it's relatively simple to bring people back from the dead (with exceptions of course).

Norman321 · May 25, 2012

Guy1 said:
These days we go by the death of cells in a certain part of the brain to tell if one can't be revived. Otherwise it's relatively simple to bring people back from the dead (with exceptions of course).

So if there is no heart beat for five min or longer, then what is the chance that you will be able to revive them?

Guy1 · May 25, 2012

Norman321 said:
So if there is no heart beat for five min or longer, then what is the chance that you will be able to revive them?

I'm no doctor but chances are, if it's been over five minutes, there might be brain damage.

Norman321 · May 29, 2012

Guy1 said:
I want clear, concise definitions or the two terms, the mechanisms through which they work, the predictions that can be made with these ideas, and a way to falsify them. Only then can we talk evidence.

How do you explain the power that Benny Hinn has? Even if you say it is not God, even if you say no one is healed. You still can not deny the power that knocks down large number of people.

Benny Hinn - Incredible Demonstrations of God's Power - YouTube

Guy1 · May 29, 2012

Norman321 said:
How do you explain the power that Benny Hinn has? Even if you say it is not God, even if you say no one is healed. You still can not deny the power that knocks down large number of people.

Actors, drama, and the power of suggestion.

Doveaman · May 29, 2012

Lion Hearted Man said:
Isn't it obvious that memories are stored in neurons, which are physical?

Is an electric signal stored in a wire?

Can you extract a memory from a neuron?

Guy1 · May 29, 2012

Doveaman said:
Is an electric signal stored in a wire?

No. It's stored in batteries.

Doveaman said:
Can you extract a memory from a neuron?

First of all, not from a single neuron (memories are stored in clusters of neurons); and second, we lack the necessary tech.

Doveaman · May 29, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
So, does praying have any measurable effect on the "will of God"? If so, how would you know?

If the measure He gives you in response is consistent with the measure you prayed for.

Doveaman · May 29, 2012

Guy1 said:
No. It's stored in batteries.

By the same token, memories are stored in the soul and transmitted through neurons.

First of all, not from a single neuron (memories are stored in clusters of neurons); and second, we lack the necessary tech.

You seem to know a lot for someone who lacks the necessary technology.

Guy1 · May 29, 2012

Doveaman said:
By the same token, memories are stored in the soul and transmitted through neurons.

And yet the first sign of Alzheimer's is memory loss due to neuron death. Why might this be?

Doveaman said:
You seem to know a lot for someone who lacks the necessary technology.

I don't know what you're saying here. I just scanned through a single page on a science book, detailing how memories are stored. This is not exactly classified information.

Doveaman · May 30, 2012

Guy1 said:
And yet the first sign of Alzheimer's is memory loss due to neuron death. Why might this be?

If memory neurons die the memory cannot be transmitted from the soul to our awareness.

If the wire is severed the electrical signal cannot be transmitted from the battery to the bulb.

I don't know what you're saying here. I just scanned through a single page on a science book, detailing how memories are stored. This is not exactly classified information.

You didn't exactly share that information.

If a memory is physically stored in neurons, how is a memory stored?

Can a memory be seen or detected?

What does a memory look like?

Can a memory be extracted from neurons?

Guy1 · May 30, 2012

Doveaman said:
If memory neurons die the memory cannot be transmitted from the soul to our awareness.

This actually hits right at the heart on my opinion on most (if not all) supernatural entities. You're telling me the functions of this this undetectable, unfalsifiable, unpredictable thing are absolutely indistinguishable from those of the force or entity they're otherwise attributed to? If so then why should anyone care? Such an unnecessary assumption could never survive Occam's Razor.

If the soul is indistinguishable from a cluster of neurons, then why should I, or anyone for that matter, care?

Doveaman said:
If the wire is severed the electrical signal cannot be transmitted from the battery to the bulb.

It's about time you stop with the analogy. It's flawed in that we both accept the existence of the objects within it, yet we disagree on the existence of one of the elements you're attempting to liken them to.

Doveaman said:
You didn't exactly share that information.

It wasn't exactly relevant.

Doveaman said:
If a memory is physically stored in neurons, how is a memory stored?

Google is your friend: How are memories stored in the human brain? - Quora

Doveaman said:
Can a memory be seen or detected

It can be seen by you and detected by us with a vast array of simple tests.

Doveaman said:
What does a memory look like?

Depends what exactly you're asking. If you mean literally, then it's an interesting mix of neuron networks and chemicals working together all to retain an experience.

Doveaman said:
Can a memory be extracted from neurons?

Anything's possible I suppose.

Doveaman · May 30, 2012

Guy1 said:
I don't know what you're saying here. I just scanned through a single page on a science book, detailing how memories are stored. This is not exactly classified information.

That's interesting, because I got my information from a book too, detailing how memories are stored. It's not classified information either.

Guy1 said:
This actually hits right at the heart on my opinion on most (if not all) supernatural entities. You're telling me the functions of this this undetectable, unfalsifiable, unpredictable thing are absolutely indistinguishable from those of the force or entity they're otherwise attributed to? If so then why should anyone care? Such an unnecessary assumption could never survive Occam's Razor.

Occams Razor can take a hike.

You restrict yourself to science books written by those who study the brain.

I rely on books written by those who studied the creator of the brain.

It is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understandingFor who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? (Job 32:8, 1 Cor 2:11).

Human thoughts and understanding is generated and retained by the human spirit and transmitted to our human awareness through the human brain.

The human brain is just an information pathway used by the human spirit to transmit information to our human awareness.

This is how human thoughts and memories are retained after we die and restored after we are resurrected.

If the soul is indistinguishable from a cluster of neurons, then why should I, or anyone for that matter, care?

Because it explains why you guys are incapable of explaining how human thoughts and memories are generated and retained, despite your many years of studying neurons.

It helps us to see why you guys are in such a conundrum.

Google is your friend: How are memories stored in the human brain? - Quora

Thats a question that even your Google friend cannot answer:

The precise way that long-term memories are structured and represented across billions of synapses is the subject of intense ongoing research and remains one of the great mysteries of neuroscienceThe most popular view on short-term memory is that it results from signaling patterns circulating in "recurrent feedback loops" within neural circuits on the scale of a 1 millimeter or so of brain tissue, but this too is the subject of ongoing research. - Quora.

Keep searching.

It can be seen by you and detected by us with a vast array of simple tests.

Can you see or detect what a person is remembering or thinking? I didnt think so.

Depends what exactly you're asking. If you mean literally, then it's an interesting mix of neuron networks and chemicals working together all to retain an experience.

Except that you dont know how the experience is retained. Your Google friend is still trying to figure that out.

Good luck with that.

Anything's possible I suppose.

Only if you are God.

"With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matt 19:26).

Theofane · May 30, 2012

The laws of physics have no bearing on the soul because the soul transcends the physical.

Physics and the Immortality of the Soul

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