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Oh so by your argument Hitler should not be blamed for the millions of people murdered in WW2 because Hitler did not personally kill anyone. GOTCHA!
What is it about the following verse that you do not understand: For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)Had I given Moses a free pass for violating the commandment ("Do not kill"), you might have a valid point. Had the commandments read "Kill when you think it's necessary", you might also have a valid point. Since I'm not doing any such thing, your strawman makes no sense.
What is it about the following verse that you do not understand: “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
Not heaven nor Earth have passed away and thus we are committed to the OT!
The Bible portrays God ordering the massacres.
If those Biblical assertions are false wouldn't it also throw doubt on the divine inspiration of the other orders and commandments you find in the book?
We could even say the opposite that God ordered the massacres but the "thou shall not kill" part was a human interpolation.
This is obviously not referring to the 10 commandments as the 10 commandments were God's and not of any prophet's. Clearly Jesus is insisting we keep to the OT in its entirety and this includes killing disobedient children!No. Christ is describing the LAWS (commandments) recorded in the Bible/Torah, not the MORALITY OF MOSES! In fact Jesus REBUKES Moses's eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth sense of morality. Jesus insists that we are to love even our worst enemies! We're supposed to turn the other cheek, not hit them back as Moses would have done.
You're ignoring the fact that Christ is the JEWISH MESSIAH, not a mere "prophet"! The Messiah is there to FULFILL those laws/commandments IN FORM! Christ did not kill. Christ did not covet. Christ FOLLOWED THE LAWS and commandments that Moses wrote about whereas Moses did not! We aren't stuck with the OT, we also have a MESSIAH and a NT!
This is obviously not referring to the 10 commandments as the 10 commandments were God's and not of any prophet's.
No it does NOT. Talk about strawman arguments. When did Jesus kill ANYONE that disobeyed him? What a crock! I've heard LAME arguments and I've seen people try to twist a single sentence out of context before, but WOW!Clearly Jesus is insisting we keep to the OT in its entirety and this includes killing disobedient children!
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.
I have come not to abolish but to fulfil. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."
As I've pointed out to you, the Messiah did in fact fulfill those laws in human form. He taught us to reject the human desire for revenge, and embrace unconditional love. Your portrayal and your understanding of Jesus and his teachings is just pitiful IMO.(Matthew 5:17 NAB)
Lot's and lots of human beings have KILLED and claimed God told them to do so IN SPITE of that commandment 'Do not kill'. I don't believe them anymore than you do.
Um. That's God's LAW that he's referring to! Facepalm!
No it does NOT. Talk about strawman arguments. When did Jesus kill ANYONE that disobeyed him? What a crock! I've heard LAME arguments and I've seen people try to twist a single sentence out of context before, but WOW!
If you were correct then he would have allowed the adulteress to be stoned to death! He'd have said, "Hey man, Moses was a righteous dude and killing is sometimes justified. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, that's what I say!"
Unfortunately for you, no such nonsense is recorded in the *NEW* Testament.
As I've pointed out to you, the Messiah did in fact fulfill those laws in human form. He taught us to reject the human desire for revenge, and embrace unconditional love. Your portrayal and your understanding of Jesus and his teachings is just pitiful IMO.
Exactly. Besides, since Jesus is considered to be God and the OT is written or inspired by God then suffice it to say that Jesus ordered the killings. Somehow the inconsistencies are too many to ignore. If the Soul hypothesis is to hold water then the Bible must hold water otherwise let us see the bible for what it is; A spiritual guide, and not a textbook. This will automatically mean that the soul is also relegated to the spiritual world and not the physical world of reality. This way we will have achieved an "immortal" balance. (pun intended)I'd say more like - luckily for you.
He didn't say Jesus killed anybody and nobody says that. The point is that he fully endorsed the legal system that demands that killing. It doesn't matter whether he carried out the punishment, he endorsed the system as being moral when it quite clearly isn't.
Exactly. Besides, since Jesus is considered to be God and the OT is written or inspired by God then suffice it to say that Jesus ordered the killings. Somehow the inconsistencies are too many to ignore. If the Soul hypothesis is to hold water then the Bible must hold water otherwise let us see the bible for what it is; A spiritual guide, and not a textbook. This will automatically mean that the soul is also relegated to the spiritual world and not the physical world of reality. This way we will have achieved an "immortal" balance. (pun intended)
I'd say more like - luckily for you.
He didn't say Jesus killed anybody and nobody says that. The point is that he fully endorsed the legal system that demands that killing. It doesn't matter whether he carried out the punishment, he endorsed the system as being moral when it quite clearly isn't.
I'd say more like - luckily for you.
He didn't say Jesus killed anybody and nobody says that.
BS. He did not! When the adulteress is brought before Jesus does he have her stoned to death? Does he do it himself?The point is that he fully endorsed the legal system that demands that killing.
Your claim of endorsement is demonstrably false since Christ's sense of morality was NOTHING like that of Moses. Christ did NOT condone, nor engage in physical violence against anyone. He preached AGAINST Moses's revenge oriented "eye for an eye" mentality and taught us to love our enemies. Did Moses love his enemies?It doesn't matter whether he carried out the punishment, he endorsed the system as being moral when it quite clearly isn't.
Exactly.
Besides, since Jesus is considered to be God and the OT is written or inspired by God
then suffice it to say that Jesus ordered the killings.
Somehow the inconsistencies are too many to ignore.
If the Soul hypothesis is to hold water then the Bible must hold water otherwise let us see the bible for what it is; A spiritual guide, and not a textbook.
Far from it. There is much in what Jesus said that I totally agree with. However since after the trinity was invented and Jesus became God then suffice it to say that since the OT is Gods word then it applies. As for contradictions in the Bible? Well here are some:
The only inconsistency is the fact that the two of you are utterly ignoring Christ's actual teachings while in the flesh. How is "love your enemy" congruent and consistent with genocide exactly? When did "Do not steal" and "Do not kill" jive with genocide over land?
Far from it. There is much in what Jesus said that I totally agree with.
However since after the trinity was invented
and Jesus became God
then suffice it to say that since the OT is Gods word
As for contradictions in the Bible?
Then show him some respect and quit PRETENDING you can't see a clear difference between the sense of morality that Christ promoted and the genocide that Moses engaged himself in.
Now you're talking "dogma"? Really? I'm talking HUMAN MORALITY and what a HUMAN named Jesus TAUGHT and LIVED vs. a Moses style "slaughter whole cities, we're taking their land" sense of morality. If you can't see a HUMAN DIFFERENCE between loving your enemy, and slaughtering their children, then you and I have nothing to discuss because you aren't interested in an honest discussion.
So you're going to blame God now for all the ills of planet Earth I suppose?
No, it's JUST a BOOK! It's a historical account of JEWISH history and JEWISH tradition written by JEWS. Some of it is 'accurate'. Some of it is "culturally biased". Some of it is pure BS. It's simply a BOOK.
Jesus Christ is the LIVING WORD of God. Nothing else is "perfect", PURE, or "God's fault". Jesus is the living word of God. Nothing else is worthy of any sort of idol worship.
Who cares?
Since you are NOT a Bible literal then we are in agreement!No, it's JUST a BOOK! It's a historical account of JEWISH history and JEWISH tradition written by JEWS. Some of it is 'accurate'. Some of it is "culturally biased". Some of it is pure BS. It's simply a BOOK.
Jesus Christ is the LIVING WORD of God. Nothing else is "perfect", PURE, or "God's fault". Jesus is the living word of God. Nothing else is worthy of any sort of idol worship.
Who cares?
So what physical proof do you have for a soul?
Woah. Why do you need to have a "mechanism" to survive death? Do you have a "mechanism" to explain where 'dark energy" comes from? "Inflation"?Until you provide some evidence for a soul and a mechanism for it surviving death, I'll stick with the smart physics guys and gals.
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