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Featured Physical, Material, Bodily Resurrection of Christ

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jesus is YHWH, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Then you need to explain the existence on the tree of Life in the garden before the fall??? Apparently according you your view here, it had no meaning or purpose and was completely ineffective and useless before the fall. Do I have that right? If so, WHY WAS IT THERE? and why did God tell Adam and Eve they could FREELY EAT from it (or not- their choice) BEFORE THE FALL?? And why do we see it BACK after the restoration of all things in the New Heavens and Earth? and why are its leaves to be used for the healing of the nations forever, if everything has been PERMANENTLY perfected at that time already and existence has been returned to the Pre-Fall State? What/who STILL needs perpetual healing at that time? Why is the tree there if, as you seem to be claiming, it's wholly unnecessary and redundant in both circumstances?

    I'm not against it per se, I just haven't seen any scripture that proves it.

    Do you believe Jesus' Flesh and Bone Body TODAY IN HEAVEN has taken the physical form of a Slain Lamb with 7 Eyes and 7 Horns? As Revelation 5:6 Infallibly Declares?
    Really?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  2. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    So, I will tell you what my opinion is on all this:

    > Of course that is just symbolism. The Bible itself interprets what all this means, so we don't have to guess, but no need not to take literal if not interpreted for us. Slain Lamb= Jesus dying on the cross for our sins- we all know this one. 7 eyes= seven Spirits of God=Holy Spirit-also the lamps before the throne (Rev 4). Jesus looks just like the Father with a face that shines like the Sun, & gray hair, IMO. (Rev 1& Dan. 7)

    His power to use His eyes like super man will probably be real too. This would be all part of His majestic glory honor that He had before in eternity. Christians will shine too. (Dan 12)

    >It's simple about the tree in the garden. If Adam & Eve had not sinned, no need for it, it would just be another tree to eat from. But because God knows everything and planned everything out, the tree would become efficacious for them now-but they were in a fallen state, so the angels had to guard it.

    We do not know exactly why the tree will be in the new Jerusalem-for it's people. It could be memorial in nature where it just symbolizes the eternal life we already have. It could be we will have to eat from it to maintain the resurrection body, but this seems to be a contradiction to what Paul says in 1st Cor 15. But its leaves will be used for healing of the nations. Could it be that the leaves take away the sin nature of the nations? Let me give you my version of what will happen:

    Imo, if you compare parts of Ezek. 40-48 with the new heaven and new earth, they are similar. The river, the trees on each side of the river for food and healing, and both John and Ezekiel being carried to a great high mountain. John sees it coming down out of heaven, Ezekiel from the high mountain sees a city to the south with a Temple. So the earthly city with the Temple is a "copy" of the heavenly with some differences because mortals with a sin nature will still be there.

    In Rev 20, John gives all the action in a straight forward overview fashion, just like Gen 1. He then comes back in Rev 21-22 and describes in more detail what has taken place at the start of 20-when Jesus takes possession of the Kingdom. This is what Gen. 2-3 does, giving an overview in chapter 1, and more information of what happened during that time in 2-3.

    So the heavenly city does not set down after 1000 years-as most think, but at the start of the 1000 years when the earth is remade through the day of the Lord judgments, the earth is changed and uplifted- in the land of Israel esp, making a broad high plateau for the land as described in Ezek. 40-48, and the curse is lifted off the earth, starting with the holy mountain of God (on the plateau)- nobody can kill on His holy Mountain. After the 1000 years- when all death and sin are done away with, there will be slight changes, but not a wholesale make over. Places that were cursed for nations not coming up to worship the Lord, will be restored.

    The new Jerusalem will be on this plateau and the whole thing will be called Zion, with a Temple complex outside the city-that is why no temple in the heavenly city. Therefore, the leaves will be used for the healing of the nations. Possibly the Lord will resurrect people as they die and they will be able to go up to the city, enter the gates that the angels guard, and eat of the tree. This maybe after their sin nature is done away with by the leaves? They could then populate the different planets all over the universe in the ages to come. Which seems like that is what God intended in the first place. That be the quote like the stars of heaven and like the sand of the sea will be the seed of Abraham.

    It's also quite possible that our resurrection bodies can be wounded- but not die or grow old, and may need healing from the trees leaves. We do not know. These are just some of my thoughts. :)
     
  3. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Interesting and thoughtful reply. Thank you.

    I wanted to unpack this one a bit...

    Seems to me this affirms what I suspected is your apparent position; that the tree of life was useless and ineffectual BEFORE the fall. Did not have the power to grant eternal life UNTIL the fall? The Fall of Man actually gave the tree of life it's power.
    Do I have that correct?

    Which also brings up the point about eating in general before the fall.. why the need to eat?
    Don't plants Die when you eat them? How could there be eating before the fall if there was no death before the fall? And what did the Venus Fly Trap eat? or the Shark?
     
  4. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    No it still had the ability, but it would not have been needed because without sin, death would not of happened. You see? So this is proof the test was a real one. Maybe I didn't explain it right?

    If they would of ate of it it would not effect them at all. On the other hand, because they did fall, God had to have the tree protected- and God Himself says among the Holy Trinity that Adam would live forever if he ate of it.

    Remember there was no prohibition to eat from the tree of life while they were innocent. And just like in the in the garden, the tree of life in the new Jerusalem is protected by 12 angels-one at each gate. So it does have power to grant immortality, even to the fallen mortals.

    That is why put two and two together, the new Jerusalem is on earth during the MK. If it was in Heaven, no need to protect the gates, no wat the leaves can be used for the healing of the nations.

    22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

    >Yes, that"s easy. Eating is part of Gods plan! And Veggies! :) Just cause a animal has big teeth, that does not make them unable to eat plants. Look at the panda. Some sharks eat plankton, like whales. After the fall, adaptation within a kind was granted. Along with us being able to eat meat, and them.

    Bugs and plants don't have the breath of life in them, no spirit. Since the life is in the blood, whenever a plant "dies" or bug, its not what God would call death.

    29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so

    7The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.”

    17“Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

    1And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2“The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. 3“Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. 4“Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5“Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

    25There is the sea, great and broad,
    In which are swarms without number,
    Animals both small and great.

    26There the ships move along,
    And Leviathan, which You have formed to sport in it.

    27They all wait for You
    To give them their food in due season.

    28You give to them, they gather it up;
    You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good.

    29You hide Your face, they are dismayed;
    You take away their spirit, they expire
    And return to their dust.


    30You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;
    And You renew the face of the ground.
     
  5. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Hmmm. Seems like circular reasoning to me.

    But If He ate from it it before the fall, would not its powers have lasted after the fall?
    remember you did say:
    From your view it seems you believe constant access to it, constant eating from it is not required for eternal life... just one small bite.. And you also contend that one bite has the power to grant immortality to the eater...

    Correct... there was also no commandment TO eat from it.. they were free to choose to eat from it or not.

    My contention is that had they not fallen, and not eaten from the tree of life, they would have physically died anyway, and went to heaven to be with the Lord Forever, as was Gods perfect Design for Human Beings.. for my contention is that physical death existed before the fall... the fall caused spiritual death, separation from God... we know this to be true for God said "That day you will surely Die"... and they did in fact NOT die physically that day... but they did die spiritually that day... they were immediately separated from God. Christ of course has now fully restored that perfect design by defeating death and granting His victory to the Church, so now when we shed our earthly tent, God has fashioned a permanent home for us with Him in the heavens, as was His original purpose from Humanity.

    The Physical resurrection of Christ was purely for evidentairy purposes of the proving of His defeating spiritual death...Just as His wounds were left intact for evedentairy purposes only, and we will not likewise retain our death woulds in our resurrection bodies, His entire Physicality was likewise manifest as physical evidence of the spiritual reality, otherwise no one would know... His Body is the ONLY Body that was promised not to see decay and turn to dust... and we have no such promise given for ours... as Paul said, our physical bodies are like the husk of a seed that turns to dist and gives was to a new spiritual body that God gives us.

    The Tree of Life is Fulfilled in the Person of Christ Jesus.

    He is the tree, he is the living water, he is the temple.

    Paradise is restored for all who are in Him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  6. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it might sound like circular reasoning, but it's really not. :)Thanks for telling me what your view point is.

    I like to take things in a literal way and do see our bodies as being like Jesus', being both immortal and imperishable, but also wanting spiritual things- instead of only earthly, like hamburgers and french fried taters and sex. :wave:
     
  7. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Do you think this is the Christ who returns and judges the people at the judgement seat of Christ and the Great White Throne Judgement, and the same Christ who Paul saw and is mentioned in Revelation as being white like wool?
     
  8. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Its the same Christ who appeared to Thomas where he touched and saw His crucifixion marks and declared Christ was his Lord and his God.
     
  9. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Those depictions of Christ are all the same manifestation?
     
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