Physical intimacy before marriage

Fremdin · Mar 13, 2011

lawtonfogle said:
Did you see what my comment was in response to?

I did. I'm directing that more at what you were responding to, as well. You are making valid points. I never understood why people thought anything but intercourse was just fine. Because, maybe it's the intent not the act that is the issue. You can "technically" lose your virginity if you fall the wrong way on a balance bar during gymnastics. There may be lesbians with life partners who based on one definition of virginity, die virgins. A person can't get on their high horse about being pure if they've refrained from one thing while indulging in other activities.

Sketcher · Mar 13, 2011

SullivanZ said:
Here is a link which talks about saving one's self emotionally AND physically before marriage:

Bold Christian Living

Here is an interesting quote:

My father actually taught that it was a sin to "fall in love." He said that when you fall you don't know where you are going to land. The whole love-at-first-sight idea pre-supposes we are ruled by our emotions. Our emotions are fickle and can easily mislead us. Is it possible to "fall in love" with the wrong person? Absolutely! I know. I did it! Thankfully my parents would not bless a relationship they knew was not God's best for me.

In our culture we are taught to marry the one you love. Nowhere in scripture do we find this encouraged. Instead the scripture teaches us to love the one you marry. There is a vast difference between these two. Are we to be led by our emotions or by God's will?

They also have a little chart, outlining the differences between courtship, dating and betrothal for Christians. Might be worth a read:

Bold Christian Living

Makes me wonder how his parents, or even how he and his wife got together. At which point did they sin?

Now, I fully agree that infatuation is nothing but foolishness that will end up biting you in the backside most of the time, but sin? That's not Biblical.

SullivanZ · Mar 13, 2011

Sketcher said:
Makes me wonder how his parents, or even how he and his wife got together. At which point did they sin?

Now, I fully agree that infatuation is nothing but foolishness that will end up biting you in the backside most of the time, but sin? That's not Biblical.

I'm sure his/her parents got together any normal way. That is sinful dating, as they call it. It worked for them, but not for the next generation.

Blank123 · Mar 13, 2011

SullivanZ said:
For the people who believe in the concept of "biblical betrothal", which is an entirely cultural idea, I have to wonder how they will find - or rather how their parents will find - a suitable companion for them who agrees with their outdated notions of relationships and family. In order for this process to work, but families would have to see eye to eye on the whole thing.

they do manage to find eachother. In this day and age its a subculture issue, so families belonging to subcultures that hold to that idea of courtship will find other families within those subcultures to match their children up together.

ImperialPhantom · Mar 13, 2011

SullivanZ said:
Here is a link which talks about saving one's self emotionally AND physically before marriage:

Bold Christian Living

Here is an interesting quote:

My father actually taught that it was a sin to "fall in love." He said that when you fall you don't know where you are going to land. The whole love-at-first-sight idea pre-supposes we are ruled by our emotions. Our emotions are fickle and can easily mislead us. Is it possible to "fall in love" with the wrong person? Absolutely! I know. I did it! Thankfully my parents would not bless a relationship they knew was not God's best for me.

In our culture we are taught to marry the one you love. Nowhere in scripture do we find this encouraged. Instead the scripture teaches us to love the one you marry. There is a vast difference between these two. Are we to be led by our emotions or by God's will?

They also have a little chart, outlining the differences between courtship, dating and betrothal for Christians. Might be worth a read:

Bold Christian Living

We need to be careful about making up new sins and believing that something is a sin that Scripture doesn't refer to as a sin. Every culture is different, and I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that God gets this. The whole point of the matter is to do what God commands no matter what your culture is.

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

Someone refraining from physical, non-sexual intimacy before marriage doesn't bother me. The attitude of self-righteousness and looking down your nose at other Christians who don't believe as you do does bother me.

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

lawtonfogle said:
Not really. For example, I have a supreme aversion to 'swapping spit' with anyone. I cannot stand the idea of drinking after someone. If I have a soda and a family member takes a single swallow, it is their soda. If I leave it in the fridge and later think someone might have taken a swallow of it, I can't drink it. Someone drooling is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

Oh, dear. I'm the same way. I don't know what I'm going to do when I do have a relationship with someone.

Brad2009 · Mar 13, 2011

leothelioness said:
Someone refraining from physical, non-sexual intimacy before marriage doesn't bother me. The attitude of self-righteousness and looking down your nose at other Christians who don't believe as you do does bother me.

You could call it that. Or you could call it rebuking false teachers, who say that sin is not sin.

Perhaps you think that these false teachers who are leading lukewarm, carnal, worldly so-called Christians down the broad path into hell are justified in their cowardly stand apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ. I urge you to reconsider if you do think that.

You can find false prophets who will tell you that no evil thing shall befall you and so-called pastors who will soothe the itching ears of goats with the doctrines of demons in America very easily.

Is it possible for two mutually exclusive statements to both be true?

If you love someone and want them to be saved, are you going to tell them they can dwell in sin and still be saved? Wouldn't that be showing contempt/hatred for that person?

Or maybe its just cowardice. No-one likes to be unpopular... but its a coward that values their own sense of comfort above another person's soul.

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

So, Christians who are okay with kissing, hugging, etc. are lukewarn, carnal and worldly? Sorry, but I don't believe that and I think it's absurd to even think that. If one wants to be a prude, that's fine, but eshewing prudishness is not sin nor will it send someone to hell. Jeez.

GQ Chris · Mar 13, 2011

I think the subject should be treated to the degree that it effects you, like the drinking issue. I am one of those moderate drinkers who have no problem stopping at a couple of drinks. There are lots of people out there who cannot do this. Same thing with the kissing, cuddling, some people its not an issue at all, for others its like adding fuel to the fire, and next thing you know all the clothes are on the floor. The Bible says to deal with your sins harshly if need be, and uses the strong language of cutting out your eye if need be, meaning not literally do that, but maybe avoid the situation altogether if cuddling leads you into sexual sin, don't even put yourself into that situation to fall.

Brad2009 · Mar 13, 2011

leothelioness said:
So, Christians who are okay with kissing, hugging, etc. are lukewarn, carnal and worldly? Sorry, but I don't believe that and I think it's absurd to even think that. If one wants to be a prude, that's fine, but eshewing prudishness is not sin nor will it send someone to hell. Jeez.

I know that you are very very worldly in your every opinion. I have seen the way you prefer the wisdom of this age to the gospel in the case of every conflict, only acknowledging the gospel as a footnote, plausible only in lieu of a leading worldly authority on the subject.

That you find something absurd means nothing to me. Why not find some scripture? You may have already realized this, but you are going against scripture in this thread as in nearly every other one I've ever seen you post in.

You're not a dummy and you're not a worse more evil person than I am. But please turn from the worldly thinking which clouds your judgement and submit yourself to God.

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

Brad2009 said:
I know that you are very very worldly in your every opinion. I have seen the way you prefer the wisdom of this age to the gospel in the case of every conflict, only acknowledging the gospel as a footnote, plausible only in lieu of a leading worldly authority on the subject.

Oh, really? Wow, I didn't know you knew so much about me and my relationship with God. Maybe you could provide me with some evidence of my "worldliness", hm?

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

Brad2009 said:
That you find something absurd means nothing to me. Why not find some scripture? You may have already realized this, but you are going against scripture in this thread as in nearly every other one I've ever seen you post in.

You're not a dummy and you're not a worse more evil person than I am. But please turn from the worldly thinking which clouds your judgement and submit yourself to God.

And that you feel something is absurd means nothing to me. And why not find some verses that show where non-sexual intimacy is wrong?

And didn't you admit to having porn addiction and was drunk posting on the forums a while back? Maybe you should remove the beam from your own eye. Judge not lest ye be judged. I could toss out a whole lot more scripture for you if that's what you want.

Please, get off your high horse, Brad.

Brad2009 · Mar 13, 2011

leothelioness said:
Oh, really? Wow, I didn't know you knew so much about me and my relationship with God. Maybe you could provide me with some evidence of my "worldliness", hm?

This thread. You condone sin here and in other threads and say that those who do not condone sin are judgmental - its the most popular and generic of carnally minded attacks on the gospel. But those who justify the wicked and condemn the innocent are alike.

Its wrong to condemn your fellow debtors, as all have fallen short of the glory of God. But its just as wrong to deny that there is a debt in the first place.

Brad2009 · Mar 13, 2011

leothelioness said:
And that you feel something is absurd means nothing to me. And why not find some verses that show where non-sexual intimacy is wrong?

And didn't you admit to having porn addiction and was drunk posting on the forums a while back? Maybe you should remove the beam from your own eye. Judge not lest ye be judged. I could toss out a whole lot more scripture for you if that's what you want.

Please, get off your high horse, Brad.

The only time you would ever acknowledge sin as sin is to discredit an opponent.

And no to the bolded (only object to the word addicted), but I have admitted to being convicted over and repenting of porn (over a period of time).

GQ Chris · Mar 13, 2011

Admitting to struggling with different sins is not the same thing as agreeing with the worldly status quo of what our culture teaches.

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

Brad2009 said:
This thread. You condone sin here and in other threads and say that those who do not condone sin are judgmental - its the most popular and generic of carnally minded attacks on the gospel. But those who justify the wicked and condemn the innocent are alike.

Its wrong to condemn your fellow debtors, as all have fallen short of the glory of God. But its just as wrong to deny that there is a debt in the first place.

What are you talking about? So, saying that non-sexual intimacy is okay is condoning sin? What about everyone else in this thread that has no problem with it or do you just have a personal vendetta?

And why not provide scripture since you're so intent on that?

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

Brad2009 said:
The only time you would ever acknowledge sin as sin is to discredit an opponent.

Oy vey. You're hardly ever on here anyway, so in case you haven't seen the posts (which I'm fairly certain you haven't) I have personally stated my dislike for porn and drunkenness. How's that for ya?

And no to the bolded (only object to the word addicted), but I have admitted to being convicted over and repenting of porn (over a period of time).

The point I was trying to make was how about you worry about your own sins instead of trying to convict others of sins that you perceive they are committing? The key word there is "perceive".

Blank123 · Mar 13, 2011

um. I'm confused as well. As far as I'm aware, Leo has only talked about nonsexual signs of affection. where did she condone sin?

leothelioness · Mar 13, 2011

GQ Chris said:
Admitting to struggling with different sins is not the same thing as agreeing with the worldly status quo of what our culture teaches.

Oh, please. Not you, too, Chris.

And no one has provided any scripture that specifically states that non-sexual intimacy is wrong. Maybe that's because THERE ARE NONE.

Physical intimacy before marriage

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