Physical Healing in the Atonement (PHIA)

[JimfromOhio]

There are Christians here who believe in physical healing in the atonement (PHIA). Some Christians (I won't refer to what group they belong to) believe that in faith that God will heal their bodies as they have that God l forgave their sins. They believe that Christ redeemed them from their sins and that they believe that He redeemed them from their sicknesses also. Christians need not be sick because 1 Peter 2:24 says that we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge which is close to mysticism or gnosticism teachings.

One teacher said:

"The best method by which you can be healed is to know for yourself from our text Scriptures (Isaiah 53:4,5, Matthew 8:17, and First Peter 2:24) that healing is in God's redemptive plan; it belongs to you; and by His stripes we are healed. We refuse to allow disease of sickness in our bodies, because we ARE healed. We know that the pain, sickness, or disease that seems to be in our bodies was laid on Jesus. He bore it. We do not need to bear it. All we need to do is agree with God and His Word and accept the fact that "himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses" and "with his stripes we are healed." . . . All believers should thoroughly understand that their healing was consummated in Christ. When they come to know that in their spirits - just as they know it in their heads - that will be the end of sickness and disease in their bodies."

The problem is that 1 Peter 2:24 is not about physical healing. Not only is the first part of the verse about the forgiveness of sins, the next verse also explains Peter's meaning: "For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls" (1 Peter 2:25).

In fact, there is no mention of bodily sickness anywhere in 1 Peter 2. Doctrines can captivate people with some kind of idolatry (i.e. healing, wealth, etc). They are oblivious to the real world of God's truth; rather, they are plugged into a dream world of fantasy. In chapter 2, Peter gave an extended warning about the danger of false teachers and the corruption that would infiltrate the church as those who professed to know the living God through their doctrines.

Let's look at sickness, in the sense that all sickness is linked to sin, because if there were no sin, there would be no sickness. But it is wrong in assuming that a person became directly sick from being sinful. In John 9:2-3, Jesus and His disciples encountered a blind man. “His disciples asked Him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?’ ‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.” Satan sometimes causes illness (Job 2:7; Luke 13:16). I take the Bible seriously and I agree that God hates suffering. Jesus spent much of His time relieving it during His three year ministry. Regarding doctrines of healing and suffering, the Bible does not teach that He will always physically, emotionally and mentally heal those who come to Him in faith. His sovereignty reserves the right to heal or not to heal as He sees fit (1 Peter 3:17, 1 Peter 4:19, 1 Thessalonians 5:18).

In the Old Testament Leviticus 9:7 Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 5 explains that "Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins" that in Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus is the "high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

The bottom line is: SIN as in eternal death. Christ through His blood gave us eternal LIFE.

Animal sacrifices were to cover their sins while Christ's sacrifice to purifies our sins.

Exodus 29:36 "Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it."

Leviticus 9:7 "Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We live in a body that is decaying and dying which is temporal. If our bodies are decaying as Paul said, where does it say we are physically whole while our bodies are slowly dying?

There are some teachers often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases and be healed as well as be forgiven from sins. I truly believe that most Christians do not believe that concept of doctrine.

PLEASE, in order to "discuss" this, do NOT refer by name of who teaches such doctrines but rather, we are to discuss the "doctrines" without any attachment to any one who believes in such doctrines. (Moderators, please edit any posts that list specifically to a person, group, movement, church or anyone from the posts).

The focus is: DOCTRINE, not who teaches or believes in them.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Looks like people are not familiar with "atonement" doctrine.

 

[pinetree]

There are Christians here who believe in physical healing in the atonement (PHIA). Some Christians (I won't refer to what group they belong to) believe that in faith that God will heal their bodies as they have that God l forgave their sins. They believe that Christ redeemed them from their sins and that they believe that He redeemed them from their sicknesses also. Christians need not be sick because 1 Peter 2:24 says that we are already healed. If we are sick it is because of a lack of the right kind of knowledge which is close to mysticism or gnosticism teachings.

One teacher said:

The problem is that 1 Peter 2:24 is not about physical healing. Not only is the first part of the verse about the forgiveness of sins, the next verse also explains Peter's meaning: "For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls" (1 Peter 2:25).

In fact, there is no mention of bodily sickness anywhere in 1 Peter 2. Doctrines can captivate people with some kind of idolatry (i.e. healing, wealth, etc). They are oblivious to the real world of God's truth; rather, they are plugged into a dream world of fantasy. In chapter 2, Peter gave an extended warning about the danger of false teachers and the corruption that would infiltrate the church as those who professed to know the living God through their doctrines.

Let's look at sickness, in the sense that all sickness is linked to sin, because if there were no sin, there would be no sickness. But it is wrong in assuming that a person became directly sick from being sinful. In John 9:2-3, Jesus and His disciples encountered a blind man. “His disciples asked Him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?’ ‘Neither this man nor his parents sinned,’ said Jesus, ‘but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.” Satan sometimes causes illness (Job 2:7; Luke 13:16). I take the Bible seriously and I agree that God hates suffering. Jesus spent much of His time relieving it during His three year ministry. Regarding doctrines of healing and suffering, the Bible does not teach that He will always physically, emotionally and mentally heal those who come to Him in faith. His sovereignty reserves the right to heal or not to heal as He sees fit (1 Peter 3:17, 1 Peter 4:19, 1 Thessalonians 5:18).

In the Old Testament Leviticus 9:7 Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 5 explains that "Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins" that in Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus is the "high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

The bottom line is: SIN as in eternal death. Christ through His blood gave us eternal LIFE.

Animal sacrifices were to cover their sins while Christ's sacrifice to purifies our sins.

Exodus 29:36 "Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it."

Leviticus 9:7 "Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We live in a body that is decaying and dying which is temporal. If our bodies are decaying as Paul said, where does it say we are physically whole while our bodies are slowly dying?

There are some teachers often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases and be healed as well as be forgiven from sins. I truly believe that most Christians do not believe that concept of doctrine.

PLEASE, in order to "discuss" this, do NOT refer by name of who teaches such doctrines but rather, we are to discuss the "doctrines" without any attachment to any one who believes in such doctrines. (Moderators, please edit any posts that list specifically to a person, group, movement, church or anyone from the posts).

The focus is: DOCTRINE, not who teaches or believes in them.

The words I highlighted in green,really say alot!

if phia were true,then wouldn't we be healed,at the moment of salvation?

There seems to be a disparity,because we see,that there are Christians,and rather fine ones at that,that are not healed,in their physical bodies.

2 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

 

[Biblewriter]

Have you ever heard of even one believer in PHIA that has lived more than 120 years?

If the atonement included physical healing, we would no longer be subject to aging and death. But we are, (ask my back) and believers in PHIA also are.

A sad part of this doctrine, as it is often taught, is that we should never confess that we are sick. Thus, these false teachers are actually teaching their followers to lie and say they are not sick.

Philippians 2:25-27 says, “Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.”

2 Timothy 4:20 says, “Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.”

Nut many modern "teachers" say, "never confess that you are sick."

 

[Merlin]

Looking at
Isa 53:5
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are...
healed.


râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
A primitive root; properly to mend (by stitching), that is, (figuratively) to cure: - cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole.
or BDB:BDB Definition:
1) to heal, make healthful
1a) (Qal) to heal

sure comes across as physical

 

[Merlin]

Have you ever heard of even one believer in PHIA that has lived more than 120 years?

something magic [to you] about 120 years?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Looking at
Isa 53:5
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are...
healed.


râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
A primitive root; properly to mend (by stitching), that is, (figuratively) to cure: - cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole.
or BDB:BDB Definition:
1) to heal, make healthful
1a) (Qal) to heal

sure comes across as physical

When the Bible says, "...with His stripes we are healed," it is not referring specifically to physical healing, but to the spiritual healing of the disease of sin. However, when sin is healed, sickness CAN BE indirectly healed as well, because sickness is a result of sin. First Peter 2:24 reinforces the fact that the cross was designed primarily to heal sin: "Who His own self bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed."

Going back to Matthew, he explains the fact that Isaiah 53:4 extends from the sin problem to sickness which means there's healing and wholeness in the atonement, but only as it comes to us in the fullness of salvation, when our bodies decayed, died and are glorified in His eternal Kingdom.

One day, He will take away all our sicknesses away, but the healing that took place during His earthly ministry was only a small anticipatory sample of that which was spoken by the prophet Isaiah of what will happen.

Isaiah 53 is a chapter that has been talked about, debated, and argued over for years, and perhaps will continue to be for years to come. People often unconsciously select for special attention certain Scriptures that they are familiar with that they forget to check to see the Scriptures for deeper study. Lack of balance scripturally is often the direct consequence of overemphasis on certain favorite passages while ignoring others that are related.

Sacrifices for Sin (Atonement)

Peter 4:1 (NIV) Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.

Isaiah 53 is not about physical healing but people are using the chapter is part of physical healing more than spiritual healing (salvation).

Isaiah 53:5
NIV: But he was pierced for our transgressions,he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,and by his wounds we are healed.
KJV: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

In the Old Testament Leviticus 9:7 Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 5 explains that "Every high priest is selected from among men and is appointed to represent them in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins" that in Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus is the "high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

In NIV, words were used as:
1. pierced (wounded in KJV) for our transgressions (KJV is the same)
2. crushed (bruised in KJV) for our iniquities (KJV is the same).

Transgression means violation of God's law. Iniquity means depth of sin, lawlessness.

Source of iniquity is the heart (see Matt. 23:28, Ps 41:6).

The bottom line is: SIN as in eternal death. Christ through His blood gave us eternal LIFE.

Animal sacrifices were to cover their sins while Christ's sacrifice to purifies our sins.

Exodus 29:36 "Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement. Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it."

Leviticus 9:7 "Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

Hebrews 9:14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

Hebrews 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

We live in a body that is decaying and dying which is temporal. If our bodies are decaying as Paul said, where does it say we are physically whole while our bodies are slowly dying?

The healing of the atonement will bring about our resurrection in glory, where there will be no pain or suffering (Rev. 21:1-4; 22:1-3). Jesus died to save us from our sins is clear both in Isaiah 53 and many other portions of Scripture.

But there are some faith teachers often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases. Most Christians do not believe that concept.

Any conclusion that physical healing is secured through Christ's death must be derived from other passages. But all other passages regarding Christ's death have to do with deliverance from sin and reconciliation with God.

So, what is the most balanced biblical statement regarding healing? Healing does happen and at the same time, God will commend you for your faith, if you have not received what has been promised (i.e. healing) before you die. God has planned something BETTER for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect (Heb 11:39-40).

 

[spiritman]

I love this passage for healing.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[spiritman]

Here's another beautiful promise for healing.

Ps 103:1 A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

 

[ARBITER01]

When the Bible says, "...with His stripes we are healed," it is not referring specifically to physical healing, but to the spiritual healing of the disease of sin.

This is absolutely correct.

When we look at Peter's quotes here, we need to pay attention to what he was referencing,..

1Pe 2:24 who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.

1Pe 2:25 For ye were going astray like sheep; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Peter references the passage of Isaiah for salvation, not physical healing. The people that are trying to make this say physical healing are leading people astray.

 

[pinetree]

Have you ever heard of even one believer in PHIA that has lived more than 120 years?

If the atonement included physical healing, we would no longer be subject to aging and death. But we are, (ask my back) and believers in PHIA also are.

A sad part of this doctrine, as it is often taught, is that we should never confess that we are sick. Thus, these false teachers are actually teaching their followers to lie and say they are not sick.

Philippians 2:25-27 says, “Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.”

2 Timothy 4:20 says, “Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.”

Nut many modern "teachers" say, "never confess that you are sick."

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I believe that sometimes God heals people, but not always. There are other times when He uses suffering. In fact suffering is very powerful...through it, we share in Christ's pain on the Cross, and we reach a higher level of sanctification. We can also use suffering to come to a greater understanding of God's love.. but this requires a particular mindset...

 

[spiritman]

I love this one.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

This is what those that believe are redeemed from.

Deu 28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;

59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.

60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.

61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

Thank God for His great redemption and mercy through Jesus Christ. I have been redeemed from the curse of the law.

 

[pinetree]

I believe that sometimes God heals people, but not always. There are other times when He uses suffering. In fact suffering is very powerful...through it, we share in Christ's pain on the Cross, and we reach a higher level of sanctification. We can also use suffering to come to a greater understanding of God's love.. but this requires a particular mindset...

good points said,with wisdom..

there is a whole lot in the bible,and in life,that shows suffering is a real event.

Hebrews 5:8
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered

2 Corinthians 4:10
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.

 

[sunlover1]

But there are some faith teachers often state that Jesus also died to deliver us from our diseases. Most Christians do not believe that concept.

I dont know all about that, but what about things like this:

Here's another beautiful promise for healing.

Ps 103:1 A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

What do we do with this passage?
Or the concept that the devil seeks to kill, steak and destroy,
but God sent Jesus that we might have life?
Or the passages that say if we lay hands on the sick,
they will be healed etc?

I do believe those things, don't you?

 

[Merlin]

When the Bible says, "...with His stripes we are healed," it is not referring specifically to physical healing, but to the spiritual healing of the disease of sin.

I respect your point of view, but I totally disagree.
In Isa 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him

; andwith his stripes we are healed.

notice the and. It means 'in addition to'
Then notice the 'healed'. It's the same Hebrew word as in Lev 13:18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed,

Or Lev 14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;

The Hebrew word used refers to a physical healing!

In the Old Testament Leviticus 9:7 Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded."

This passage does not use the word ['rapha'=heal]

as for the rest, I agree His death was for salvation from sin. But the stripes refers to a beating He was given. The beating is a separate event from the cross.
and that separate event was for the physical healing.


Didn't Jesus heal people physically?
Aren't we told we should be doing as He did?

It seems some Christians believed in physical healing:
Acts 3

1 One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon.
2 Now a man crippled from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts.
3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money.
4 Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, "Look at us!"
5 So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
6 Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."
7 Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong.
8 He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God.
16By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.

Acts 5 15 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter's shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I respect your point of view, but I totally disagree.
In Isa 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him

; andwith his stripes we are healed.

notice the and. It means 'in addition to'
Then notice the 'healed'. It's the same Hebrew word as in Lev 13:18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed,

Or Lev 14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;

The Hebrew word used refers to a physical healing!

This passage does not use the word ['rapha'=heal]

as for the rest, I agree His death was for salvation from sin. But the stripes refers to a beating He was given. The beating is a separate event from the cross.
and that separate event was for the physical healing.


Didn't Jesus heal people physically?
Aren't we told we should be doing as He did?

It seems some Christians believed in physical healing:
Acts 3

1 One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon.
2 Now a man crippled from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts.
3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money.
4 Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, "Look at us!"
5 So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
6 Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."
7 Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong.
8 He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God.
16By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.

Acts 5 15 As a result, people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter's shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.

I am sure you have no answers when there were Christians who died without being physically healed.

 

[spiritman]

good points said,with wisdom..

there is a whole lot in the bible,and in life,that shows suffering is a real event.

Hebrews 5:8
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered

But He didn't suffer with sickness and disease.

 

[christianmomof3]

What is "the attonement" and is this term used to refer to a time period or to what and is this term used this way in the Bible or only by the groups that have this PHIA teaching?

If the atonement included physical healing, we would no longer be subject to aging and death. But we are, (ask my back) and believers in PHIA also are.

A sad part of this doctrine, as it is often taught, is that we should never confess that we are sick. Thus, these false teachers are actually teaching their followers to lie and say they are not sick.

Philippians 2:25-27 says, “Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants. For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.”

2 Timothy 4:20 says, “Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.”

I agree. I have a friend who used to meet with a church that believed something like PHIA - perhaps it was that - I don't know, but when she got sick, they basically treated her like a leper because they assumed it was her own fault that she was ill.
That so does not express Christ or His love.
It is sad and accusatory and self-righteous and cruel.

I believe that sometimes God heals people, but not always. There are other times when He uses suffering. In fact suffering is very powerful...through it, we share in Christ's pain on the Cross, and we reach a higher level of sanctification. We can also use suffering to come to a greater understanding of God's love.. but this requires a particular mindset...

I don't think that we use the suffering to understand Christ, but He, who works all things together for good, uses the sufferings to help us gain more of Him and to grow more in Him.

Luke was a doctor. If Christ did away with sickness, then why didn't Luke declare that his former job was useless and tell everyone to be healed by faith?

Why was sickness still mentioned in the New Testament by Paul? Why didn't he tell Timothy to be healed by faith?

1 Tim 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

I do believe that the Lord does heal some people physically. But, I do not believe that He does so for everyone and I think it is according to His will who He choses to heal.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

there were many Saints who suffered a lot during their lives, because they accepted suffering as a cross they carried for Christ..