One thing we can scientifically prove is that a meal or shelter would be much more immediately useful for this homeless man than a request for God to do something instead.
God's solution seems to be to get people to heaven, where everything will be perfect. Well that doesn't really help when you are cold and hungry, here and now.
Close but not quite....
While it would be the first choice to have the commandments removed because government should have no presence in religion or any other mythology, in lieu of that, equal opportunity would be acceptable.
Do you know where the next prayer miracle is going to happen?....That way you can get your equipment set up....
I was talking about the effect of prayer of some supernatural being interceding. Not about the effect of prayer on the community.Did social networking make a kind gesture towards the homeless guy?
INCREASING the exposure of an event does not mean the act itself is irrelevant. Had individuals like this police officer who saw it taking place (or other passers by) been affected and helped the man, then you'd agree that prayer could have an impact right?
I mean, I understand the desire to try to negate the positive impact of prayer on a community/culture/person but the fact is, it can definitely have a positive impact; even if it is indirect.
And as I said, I didn't think it would be safe for that teen in that situation to "real" help that guy.
Not only that but prayer can be a "real" help. When people make connections with the homeless (a group of people who accept the worthlessness that society heaps on them), whether it be through a listening ear or a prayer, those moments can have PROFOUND impacts on those people. It helps them feel worth, and I doubt you would have a problem with that happening.
It's a short sighted mistake to think that the ONLY THING homeless people need is "food and shelter". There is deep hurt in almost every one of them. Making them feel human is probably one of the bigger gifts you can give them.
I'm one to complain when NOTHING replaces even kind gestures.
It looks like he's going to steal his shoes.
My sentiment is that I only hope he will actually do something once he aquires the means, instead of continuing to pray.
Creates connections, encourages sympathy and empathy and (ideally) action. it reminds Christians (a community) of their bonds to each other and God. It allows focus and improves health.
Does "God come down and fix everything you pray for"? No. But why should that be the expectation of God for that to occur? God isn't at our beck and call...
What if the benefits of prayer are not DIRECT but indirect? Do they become less important?
Herod found that out the hard way in Acts 12:I'm sure you realize in our current post modern society the 'god' is government as the be all and cure all. So it is understandable why an anti-theist or non-believer would see God as some sugar daddy at the beck and call of the hedonistic needs of society.
I personally think you start from a very false premise. I don't think our current society has made government into "god"; the "self" is god. THAT would be why God would be thought to be at our beck and call.I'm sure you realize in our current post modern society the 'god' is government as the be all and cure all. So it is understandable why an anti-theist or non-believer would see God as some sugar daddy at the beck and call of the hedonistic needs of society.
And the government is made up of who.....people we like to think are much like us....self.I personally think you start from a very false premise. I don't think our current society has made government into "god"; the "self" is god. THAT would be why God would be thought to be at our beck and call.
Frankly, I'm kinda surprised anyone would make that claim.
Fair enough. I guess as a Christian, I see that effect on the community as God's intercession.I was talking about the effect of prayer of some supernatural being interceding. Not about the effect of prayer on the community.
Hold on there. I don't think Nithavela suggestion there is that far off. I also hope that finds way to help people and, frankly God does call on us as Christians to do that.Let me know when you set up a 'go fund me' for the homeless gentlemen.
I don't have the means to share a lot of time or money with the homeless, although I make a point of giving street musicians money if they are good. Often quite a lot of money.Hold on there. I don't think Nithavela suggestion there is that far off. I also hope that finds way to help people and, frankly God does call on us as Christians to do that.
God doesn't call nonbelievers to do that. Nonbelievers have their own rubric whther they should help. While research has shown that their rubric is much more stringent, that doesn't mean they are defectors wrong
Is that a contradictory statement or is it just me?I don't have the means to share a lot of time or money with the homeless, although I make a point of giving street musicians money if they are good. Often quite a lot of money.
He didn't say anything about JUST praying out in the open. He said don't put on a show, don't be filled with your own self righteousness as you pray in public for the purpose of attracting attention to yourself. Jesus was calling out the boisterous street corner preachers. To quietly have a moment of prayer (as this boy does) in public for someone, does NOT fall under that purvue. Jesus does say to pray in secret, but frankly, I'd consider this moment private and the picture being taken an intrusion on that privacy.Fair enough. I guess as a Christian, I see that effect on the community as God's intercession.
I guess we just differ there.
By the way, what did Jesus say about praying in the open?
That would be just you.Is that a contradictory statement or is it just me?
None. But it just bothers me when somehow praying is held up as some grand act or gesture. It's not. It's the easiest thing in the world to do, by any objective criteria does not have any measurable effect. You know what this boy did? The full extent of his actions? He made himself look good and scored easy brownie points. Which, by the way, is explicitly forbidden in the bible. It's in Matthew 6:
But hey, it's not like this is a real problem. It's not like our politicians notice that this is an easy way to glorify oneself and offer prayers instead of meaningful steps toward a solution.
Oh... Wait...
That is a cop out......That would be just you.
I have enough money to give 10 euro when I meet a good street musician (which happens, in my town, maybe once every 2-3 months), but I don't have enough money to make any kind of impact on the life of all the homeless people in my town.
I don't have the means to share a lot of time or money with the homeless, although I make a point of giving street musicians money if they are good. Often quite a lot of money.
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