Philosophy

[Iosias]

Who are your favourite philosophers? I love the German Idealists - Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Hegel, Schopenhauer.

Do you read much philosophy?

 

[HereIStand]

Who are your favourite philosophers? I love the German Idealists - Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Hegel, Schopenhauer.

Do you read much philosophy?

I've read a little over the years, such as Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Ethics, Descartes' Discourse on the Method, and Kierkegaard's Sickness Unto Death. I also have his Fear and Trembling that I'd like to get to at some point.

More recently, I really enjoyed Phillip Cary's lectures on Augustine, which are available at this site (and are on sale now). I'd really recommend those.

At some point, I'd like to get to Locke's Essay on Human Understand and Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, since they both seem so foundational to everything afterwards. I'd like to try to tackle Aquinas Summa Theologica (or at least a good portion of it) first though, since Aquinas is really the counter-point to Kant, as I've read.

Related to that I read and enjoyed Etienne Gilson's book God and Philosophy, and posted this brief review on Amazon:

Gilson's book is a very rewarding read. Much is made of the influence of Greek philosophy on Christianity, but Gilson pinpoints the key difference between the two: "He who is" (Christianity) versus "that which is" (Greek philosophy).

What's significant too in a book of this kind, as Jaroslav Pelikan points out in the forward, is that Gilson does not focus on the usual suspects -- Marx, Freud, Darwin, and Nietzsche. But instead focuses on Kant.

Towards the end of the book, Gilson offers what Presbyterian theologian R.C. Sproul has called Gilson's choice:
"Today our only choice is not Kant or Descartes; it is rather Kant or Thomas Aquinas. All other positions are but halfway houses on the roads which lead either to absolute religious agnosticism or to the natural theology of Christian metaphysics."

This book has many merits, not the least of which is to give the reader a deep
appreciation of Christian metaphysics and how it can be a natural fit with one's Christian faith. Although I've sampled Aquinas, I finished the book feeling challenged to read him more extensively.

 

[Iosias]

I read Locke, Plato, and Aristotle at University. Really enjoyed them! In what way is Aquinas a counter-point to Kant? I am intrigued

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

My favorite philosophers are all Bible believing Christians willing to take a stand and pit Biblical philosophy over and against non-Christian philosophy. Of course none of them are famous like the ancient pagan greek philosophers.

 

[HereIStand]

I read Locke, Plato, and Aristotle at University. Really enjoyed them! In what way is Aquinas a counter-point to Kant? I am intrigued

I've not read Kant, but I understand that Aquinas' proofs for the existence of God (the five ways) are denied in The Critique of Pure Reason. Although Kant, as I understand it, allowed for God's existence based on our internal moral sense in another work (Religion within the Limits of Reason Alone?).

 

[Osage Bluestem]

All philosophies look like dung when compared with scripture.

 

[Iosias]

I've not read Kant, but I understand that Aquinas' proofs for the existence of God (the five ways) are denied in The Critique of Pure Reason. Although Kant, as I understand it, allowed for God's existence based on our internal moral sense in another work (Religion within the Limits of Reason Alone?).

Kant divided the world in the noumenon and phenomenon worlds; he placed God into the former so one could never prove God since proof belongs to the world of phenomena.

 

[prov1810]

The Stoics. I think the ideal of apatheia (which I interpret as imperturbability) is a good one and it was commended by certain Greek Fathers (Clement of Alexandria and John Climacus).

Anyway, you don't need a Roman philosopher for this. "Be anxious for nothing" (Philp 4:6). "Do not fret—it only causes harm." (Ps. 37:8)

 

[Iosias]

Have you read any more recent philosophers Prob1810? I've not read any Stoics!!

 

[prov1810]

Have you read any more recent philosophers Prob1810?

Robert Nozick (Philosophical Examinations and The Examined Life). I feel so inadequate in a conversation like this because I've never studied philosophy in a systematic way. I suppose I could buy Copleston's History of Philosophy and let him walk me through it. But it's not really my thing these days.. except for the Stoics.

 

[Iosias]

I enjoyed reading Nozick a few years ago, how did you find him?

 

[prov1810]

I enjoyed reading Nozick a few years ago, how did you find him?

Bookstore browsing in the 1990s.

I was also reading Sartre but there was no way I could understand Being and Nothingness without a companion volume. I like what he said about freedom and facticity. Marx also used the terms in-itself and for-itself but of course in a different way.

 

[gord44]

Of course none of them are famous like the ancient pagan greek philosophers.

Those philosophers were born outside of the time of Christianity and there can be great wisdom found there. No need to falsely refer to them as pagan as they were neither 'rustic', 'rural' or 'country bumpkins'.

 

[Iosias]

Julian Baggini — I still love Kierkegaard

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Those philosophers were born outside of the time of Christianity and there can be great wisdom found there. No need to falsely refer to them as pagan as they were neither 'rustic', 'rural' or 'country bumpkins'.

1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. "

1 Cor 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; 20 and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”

The Philosophers at Athens
Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. 17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there. 18 Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.

19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? 20 “For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean.” 21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.


Col 2:8 "Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ."

God bless

 

[gord44]

I just throught you were down on philosophers is all. I mean these guys did good work and if a Christian has a problem with them, they shouldn't, as from a reformed perspective, God chose them to be born before Christ. So they were doing the best they could with what they had.

 

[Iosias]

I just throught you were down on philosophers is all. I mean these guys did good work and if a Christian has a problem with them, they shouldn't, as from a reformed perspective, God chose them to be born before Christ. So they were doing the best they could with what they had.

The Church Fathers commended Greek Philosophy highly, they even thought Plato had discovered the trinity!

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I just throught you were down on philosophers is all.

I love philosophy which is biblical, which is distinctly Christian, which is according to the principals of Christ, which has Christ at the center, and under his authority.

I am opposed to secular philosophy, non-biblical, which is not according to the principals of Christ, in which Christ is neither acknowledged nor glorified.

I mean these guys did good work

Sure so far as men go, they were brilliant, and much can be gleaned from them, however so far as the God of Scripture is concerned, their worldly wisdom is foolishness.

and if a Christian has a problem with them, they shouldn't, as from a reformed perspective,

Christians should be careful and exercise caution in filling the mind with secular philosophy. In fact, I personally would advise to research Christian responses to whatever secular philosopher, and their pet philosophy, before reading the source material, so as to be aware of what to beware of.

God chose them to be born before Christ. So they were doing the best they could with what they had.

I do not understand your point here, God chose for every reprobate to be born, doesn't mean God wills that his people should follow after them, pattern our thinking after them...

 

[Iosias]

Is not all truth God's truth?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Is not all truth God's truth?

Sorry, but that question really does not address the problem, only serves as an attempt to hedge.

In Romans Chapter 1, verses commonly used as proof text to support general revelation or natural theology, we read:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,"

God's truth is suppressed, twisted, distorted by those professing to be wise. A lie may contain truth or partial truth, shall we praise it?