Philosophy vs Christ

[misfitforfaith]

I got a surprise when first saw this section of the forum because i been taught and always believed Christianity and philosophy don't mix. Especially classical philosophy for example Greek and Roman philosophy was the antithesis of Christs teachings at least this is pretty much the way tutor at uni put where i studied some philosophy.
So my question is how is philosophy compatible with Christianity as philosophy seeks to find meaning for man without a Christian God because it predates Christ in antiquity whereas Christs teachings are more of philosophy of their own however called religion and developed into that discourse/convention accordingly.

 

[elcapitan]

I got a surprise when first saw this section of the forum because i been taught and always believed Christianity and philosophy don't mix. Especially classical philosophy for example Greek and Roman philosophy was the antithesis of Christs teachings at least this is pretty much the way tutor at uni put where i studied some philosophy.

I think you have been misinformed. Greek and Roman philosophers were non-christian, but not necessarily anti-christian. Some aspects of Plato and Aristotle's ideas have even made their way into Christian theology.

So my question is how is philosophy compatible with Christianity as philosophy seeks to find meaning for man without a Christian God because it predates Christ in antiquity whereas Christs teachings are more of philosophy of their own however called religion and developed into that discourse/convention accordingly.

Whoa..run on sentence.

Anyway, philosophy does not necessarily try to find meaning without a Christian God (although many philosophers do that). Not all philosophy is from pre-Christian antiquity.

 

[misfitforfaith]

I think you have been misinformed. Greek and Roman philosophers were non-Christian, but not necessarily anti-Christian. Some aspects of Plato and Aristotle's ideas have even made their way into Christian theology.

Oh sure the Romans weren't anti Christian? I guess thats why they crucified Christ and made all the jews flee their homeland plus fed all those early Christians to the lions. As for Plato and Aristotle yes some ideas have made it into Christianity they are classical mystery sect pagan beliefs of cause Platonism and other derivations like Catharism and Gnosticism one of the sources of Freemasonry hardly Christian ideas in fact some christian conspiracy writers eg Nesta Webster argue destroyed Christianity from the inside.

 

[elcapitan]

Oh sure the Romans weren't anti Christian? I guess thats why they crucified Christ and made all the jews flee their homeland plus fed all those early Christians to the lions.

Read up on your history. Rome existed before Jesus was even born.

Further more, the Romans eventually became Christian. After Constantine took power, Christianity became the official religion of Rome.

As for Plato and Aristotle yes some ideas have made it into Christianity they are classical mystery sect pagan beliefs of cause Platonism and other derivations like Catharism and Gnosticism one of the sources of Freemasonry hardly Christian ideas in fact some christian conspiracy writers eg Nesta Webster argue destroyed Christianity from the inside.

um...right...

In any case, you don't seem to realize that philosophy progessed past the Greeks and Romans. What do you have say about.. Descartes or Leibniz (for example)?

 

[misfitforfaith]

Read up on your history. Rome existed before Jesus was even born.

:o Never stated it didint what does this have to do with what I stated?.

Further more, the Romans eventually became Christian. After Constantine took power, Christianity became the official religion of Rome.

Yes they did and they carried many pagan beliefs with them into Roman catholicism like burning incense in mass and christmas on the date of 25 dec,actually the original date of saturnalia a mithra pagan festival christ was never born a such date see here see for yourself if you doubt my facts:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia.

 

[The Nihilist]

I got a surprise when first saw this section of the forum because i been taught and always believed Christianity and philosophy don't mix. Especially classical philosophy for example Greek and Roman philosophy was the antithesis of Christs teachings at least this is pretty much the way tutor at uni put where i studied some philosophy.
So my question is how is philosophy compatible with Christianity as philosophy seeks to find meaning for man without a Christian God because it predates Christ in antiquity whereas Christs teachings are more of philosophy of their own however called religion and developed into that discourse/convention accordingly.

The whole of medieval philosophy is nothing more than christian theology.

 

[elcapitan]

:o Never stated it didint what does this have to do with what I stated?.

You stated that the Romans were anti-Christian.

Yes they did and they carried many pagan beliefs with them into Roman catholicism like burning incense in mass and christmas on the date of 25 dec,actually the original date of saturnalia a mithra pagan festival christ was never born a such date see here see for yourself if you doubt my facts:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia.

Burning incence and celebrating on Dec. 25 (Jesus's birthday is unknown) are more of rituals than actual beliefs, but yes, Christians did appropriate pagan riturals. I don't see how this is relevant to philosophy, though.

 

[daniel777]

has anyone in here actually read plato?....he came very close to christian beliefs....the problem was, he had nothing to hang it on. go read the republic.

 

[misfitforfaith]

You stated that the Romans were anti-Christian.

Well they occupied Isreal and crucified Jesus so how much more antichrist can you get although ofcause it was all part of Gods plan still doesnt make the Romans good guys in Christian history. Also i am no real fan of the modern Roman Catholic church especially since reading about vatican 2 i think they are extremely unchristian.

has anyone in here actually read plato?....he came very close to Christian beliefs....the problem was, he had nothing to hang it on. go read the republic.

Of cause i have studied philosophy for a year in Australia at tertiary level I read some of Plato's "Republic" sometime ago mind you however i still have the fundermental understanding of it. It seems to be pretty much about having Polis of Ruling elite with auxiliaries and such classes, with the basic idea that the ordinary masses were to stupid to rule themselves therefore they needed to be guided by that ruling elite.

It seems very similar the manner in which the US republic is designed upto the present day keeping in mind many of the US founding fathers were Freemasons with strong Neoclassical,Gnostic beliefs.Infact i would regard the western systems of government as Masonic innovations rather than christian ones i think Christ(God) wouldnt be very happy with pharisee like behaviour of current western elites.

 

[elcapitan]

has anyone in here actually read plato?....he came very close to christian beliefs....the problem was, he had nothing to hang it on. go read the republic.

Sure, if you ignore the references to reincarnation, homosexuality, pederasty, and celebrations for pagan gods from Plato's work...

Really, its the other way around (Plato came first, in case you didn't already know). Christianity came very close to Plato's beliefs.

Early Christians realized that Plato's ideas were closer to Christian beliefs than most other Greek philosophers, and so incorporated his ideas.

 

[Zither]

"Oh sure the Romans weren't anti Christian? I guess thats why they crucified Christ and made all the jews flee their homeland plus fed all those early Christians to the lions."

Under Roman law, Jesus was a criminal, and his crime (that of inciting revolt) was punishable by death. Likewise, the Diaspora was due to the Jews rebelling so much that the provincial governors finally snapped and threw them all out in order to make Judaea less of a massive drain on money, troops, and time. In other words, the Diaspora was the Judaeans' own fault. The feeding of Christians to the lions was due to a belief that Christians had burned down a large portion of Rome, and this belief was perpetrated by a man who was known by later scholars to be utterly mad. Also, the Romans used a lot of other peoples as gladiators or arena sacrifices, and they crucified a lot more people than Jesus. And I've never heard anyone saying the Romans were anti-Celtic or anti-Ethiopian. To the pagan Romans, the Christians weren't important enough to be persecuted. Mayhaps you should get over yourselves.

"As for Plato and Aristotle yes some ideas have made it into Christianity they are classical mystery sect pagan beliefs of cause Platonism and other derivations like Catharism and Gnosticism one of the sources of Freemasonry hardly Christian ideas in fact some christian conspiracy writers eg Nesta Webster argue destroyed Christianity from the inside."

Oh, of course. The Cathars, with their belief in gender and racial equity, pacifism, love, and tolerance, were not at all Christian. Either you don't know anything about the Christian sects and are merely spouting what you've had drummed into your head or you intentionally follow a god of hatred and bigotry, and I really hope it's the former, becuase then you're simply ignorant, rather than a spiteful, malevolent fool.

 

[quatona]

I got a surprise when first saw this section of the forum because i been taught and always believed Christianity and philosophy don't mix. Especially classical philosophy for example Greek and Roman philosophy was the antithesis of Christs teachings at least this is pretty much the way tutor at uni put where i studied some philosophy.
So my question is how is philosophy compatible with Christianity as philosophy seeks to find meaning for man without a Christian God because it predates Christ in antiquity whereas Christs teachings are more of philosophy of their own however called religion and developed into that discourse/convention accordingly.

1. Seems to me that you are working from a very uncommon definition of philosophy. I have never heard that some worldviews are per se excluded from being philosophies.
2. Your "predating" point is not really a good argument.
When biology was first called "biology", a lot of theories in today´s biology haven´t been around yet. Doesn´t seem to exclude them from being biology.

 

[The Nihilist]

Sure, if you ignore the references to reincarnation, homosexuality, pederasty, and celebrations for pagan gods from Plato's work...

Really, its the other way around (Plato came first, in case you didn't already know). Christianity came very close to Plato's beliefs.

Early Christians realized that Plato's ideas were closer to Christian beliefs than most other Greek philosophers, and so incorporated his ideas.

Oh, and it's also worth noting that christian ethics, as recounted in the gospels, are pretty close to those of the philosophical school of stoicism.

 

[misfitforfaith]

Either you don't know anything about the Christian sects and are merely spouting what you've had drummed into your head or you intentionally follow a god of hatred and bigotry, and I really hope it's the former, because then you're simply ignorant, rather than a spiteful, malevolent fool.

:o Is that so what a jester your very much my junior both in terms of education and worldly experience so it is the height of arrogance to get on this forum and jump down my throat and start calling posters FOOLS.

You have no idea what your talking about especially if you are going to allow yourself to be roped in by New age garbage in a Christian forum.
I suggest you stay away from the esoteric material at your age and maturity as clearly you have no idea what your getting yourself into as you have all your facts wrong( Don't exactly want to hear about another metalhead murder suicide pack in NZ).

I suggest you at least try to read an orthodox version of the Christian Bible( I suggest the KJV).By the way,why are you posting here as your profile states nothing about you being a Christian so you joined in the last couple of days just to be nuisance did you. Well i am not taking the bait so go back to whatever log you crawled from under.

 

[misfitforfaith]

1. Seems to me that you are working from a very uncommon definition of philosophy. I have never heard that some worldviews are per se excluded from being philosophies.

Religion is NOT Philosophy period.While you can have a philosophy of religion (some wouldnt even agree with that) religion is NOT Philosophy. For one thing religion is an institution or convention that tries to impose itself on people nations politically.Philosophy doesnt its a personal creed akin to personal christian faith and thats where the similarites end.


2

. Your "predating" point is not really a good argument.
When biology was first called "biology", a lot of theories in today´s biology haven´t been around yet. Doesn´t seem to exclude them from being biology.

:o I am not sure what your on about?. Try explaining that another way and i might get back to you!.

 

[JoeV]

Religion is NOT Philosophy period.While you can have a philosophy of religion (some wouldnt even agree with that) religion is NOT Philosophy. For one thing religion is an institution or convention that tries to impose itself on people nations politically.Philosophy doesnt its a personal creed akin to personal christian faith and thats where the similarites end..

How does religion try to impose itself on people politically? Are you saying that Christianity is not a religion?

 

[quatona]

Religion is NOT Philosophy period.While you can have a philosophy of religion (some wouldnt even agree with that) religion is NOT Philosophy. For one thing religion is an institution or convention that tries to impose itself on people nations politically.Philosophy doesnt its a personal creed akin to personal christian faith and thats where the similarites end.

If you say so. I fail to see how this is anything but a semantics issue.
If you use another definition than I do - no skin off my nose. It´s good I know that, because it prevents misunderstandings.


2

:o I am not sure what your on about?. Try explaining that another way and i might get back to you!.

Your argument was: Christianity can not be philosophy because it wasn´t around when philosophy first came up. This is a poor argument, because it´s not uncommon for new ideas to be filed in already existing categories. Like, a picture that has been painted centuries after the term "art" has been introduced is still considered art.

 

[misfitforfaith]

Your argument was: Christianity can not be philosophy because it wasn´t around when philosophy first came up. This is a poor argument, because it´s not uncommon for new ideas to be filed in already existing categories. Like, a picture that has been painted centuries after the term "art" has been introduced is still considered art.

quatona
I think you if you read back youll find it was elcaptian that was making that point you got the wrong poster.

JoeV

How does religion try to impose itself on people politically? Are you saying that Christianity is not a religion?

Well you ll find plenty of examples in History both medieval and modern the "crusades" was one the
"Inquisition"another and the Roman Catholic Church has played a major role in most of them.
Some in the west have even claimed the current war on terror is part of post modern Christian crusade against Islam a battle for the planet in our time.
Islam of cause is also a religion that tries to impose itself politically on people and nations especially since it is the kind of religion where religion and politics are not separated.

 

[Eudaimonist]

has anyone in here actually read plato?....he came very close to christian beliefs....the problem was, he had nothing to hang it on. go read the republic.

He had something to hang it on -- his realm of Ideals, and to some extent Greek religion. Read more of his Dialogs than just The Republic. He hung his beliefs on just as much as Christians do.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

quatona
I think you if you read back youll find it was elcaptian that was making that point you got the wrong poster.

I found and still find it in your OP (in the part that I quoted when I gave my response):

So my question is how is philosophy compatible with Christianity as philosophy seeks to find meaning for man without a Christian God because it predates Christ in antiquity whereas Christs teachings are more of philosophy of their own however called religion and developed into that discourse/convention accordingly