Philosophies of men mingled with scriptures

[drstevej]

It's so misleading to ask people to read the book of Mormon and pray about it instead of asking them to read the Doctrine and Covenants.

Many years ago (pre internet) I was looking for a copy of D&C. I called a LDS ward and asked if I could buy a copy of D&C. The question they asked was "Why?" I replied, "To read it."

So I went there to purchase it and again after I paid them $9.00 they asked "Why do you want this?"

In fact, everyone came out of their offices to watch me buy it. After I went home and read it I understood their concern.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Originally Posted by joneysd
the problem with you is you cannot see it when you are shown the doifference.

does the bible teach joseph smith judges who goes to heaven.

does the bible teach plurality of gods.

does the bible teach God was a man before he was God.

the BOM is clearly a different gospel.

Actually, the BoM doesn't teach any of that. The BoM is very similar to the Bible in many respects, and is very Trinitarian in nature. It is the Doctrine & Covenants which determines doctrine in the LDS church.

Thank you!!! It seems no matter how many times I tell joneysd this, she doesn't get it. I just chalk it up to she likes to make unsubstantiated allegations.

So here she goes again:

thats very weird as the LDS in here claim the trinity is rubbish and is not biblical, even though joseph smith believed it when he first started.

I already did a post with her in which she alleged the 1830 BOM taught the trinity and it was "changed." And I presume it was her who reported me for it. I showed the current BOM has the exact same words.
Joney cannot accept that 3 can be one God unless one accepts the doctrine of the trinity. Wake up world!!! One can and should believe Jesus and the Bible and the Godhead and not the errant doctrine of the trinity which teaches an errant and changing concept of the oneness of God - at first it left out the Holy Ghost - and unbiblical concepts of Christ being begotten before all worlds and now being eternally begotten, etc. Take your pick people as to which doctrine of the trinity you believe, because they are all of man.

 

[joneysd]

Originally Posted by joneysd
the problem with you is you cannot see it when you are shown the doifference.

does the bible teach joseph smith judges who goes to heaven.

does the bible teach plurality of gods.

does the bible teach God was a man before he was God.

the BOM is clearly a different gospel.


Thank you!!! It seems no matter how many times I tell joneysd this, she doesn't get it. I just chalk it up to she likes to make unsubstantiated allegations.

So here she goes again:
I already did a post with her in which she alleged the 1830 BOM taught the trinity and it was "changed." And I presume it was her who reported me for it. I showed the current BOM has the exact same words.
Joney cannot accept that 3 can be one God unless one accepts the doctrine of the trinity. Wake up world!!! One can and should believe Jesus and the Bible and the Godhead and not the errant doctrine of the trinity which teaches an errant and changing concept of the oneness of God - at first it left out the Holy Ghost - and unbiblical concepts of Christ being begotten before all worlds and now being eternally begotten, etc. Take your pick people as to which doctrine of the trinity you believe, because they are all of man.

it is quite simple really if Jesus is a god, the father is a god and they are not the same god you have multiple gods, the fact you teach you can become gods further shows you believe in multiple gods which is not biblical.

so you think if everyone wakes up they will stop following the errant concept of the trinity and sell out on the errant doctrines of the LDS, I cannot see that happening.

so are you saying joseph smith does not judge who is going to heaven?


so are you saying the lds do not believe god was a man before he was god?

and we have covered the plurality of gods.

 

[RevelationTestament]

it is quite simple really if Jesus is a god, the father is a god and they are not the same god you have multiple gods, the fact you teach you can become gods further shows you believe in multiple gods which is not biblical.

so you think if everyone wakes up they will stop following the errant concept of the trinity and sell out on the errant doctrines of the LDS, I cannot see that happening.

so are you saying joseph smith does not judge who is going to heaven?


so are you saying the lds do not believe god was a man before he was god?

and we have covered the plurality of gods.

I am saying you make repeated allegations about the BOM that aren't true.
If 3 persons can be one God, more can, if God wants them to. After all He said the Hebrews were elohim, and shall inherit all nations.

Ps 82:1 Elohim standeth in the congregation of El; he judgeth among the elohim.
Ps 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. [Ok God is judging ie correcting the elohim]
Ps 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Ps 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. [He is telling them this is what you must do to be better]
Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. [He is saying they will not be corrected - what's new?]
Ps 82:6 I have said, Ye are elohim; and all of you are children of the most High. [quoted by Jesus in defense of Himself calling Himself the Son of God]
Ps 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. [orthodoxy likes to stress that they are just men and therefore just judges, but notice that they shall fall like one of the princes - what prince?]
Ps 82:8 Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.[Notice the third person. Is YHWH telling Himself to arise? Who is the inheritor? Does Heavenly Father inherit that He already hath?]

either you believe Jesus's words or you don't:
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

 

[joneysd]

I am saying you make repeated allegations about the BOM that aren't true.
If 3 persons can be one God, more can, if God wants them to. After all He said the Hebrews were elohim, and shall inherit all nations.

Ps 82:1 Elohim standeth in the congregation of El; he judgeth among the elohim.
Ps 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. [Ok God is judging ie correcting the elohim]
Ps 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Ps 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. [He is telling them this is what you must do to be better]
Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. [He is saying they will not be corrected - what's new?]
Ps 82:6 I have said, Ye are elohim; and all of you are children of the most High. [quoted by Jesus in defense of Himself calling Himself the Son of God]
Ps 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. [orthodoxy likes to stress that they are just men and therefore just judges, but notice that they shall fall like one of the princes - what prince?]
Ps 82:8 Arise, O Elohim, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.[Notice the third person. Is YHWH telling Himself to arise? Who is the inheritor? Does Heavenly Father inherit that He already hath?]

either you believe Jesus's words or you don't:
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

it is your interpretation that makes no sense, how can Jesus the god, almighty god and all the gods you want to become not be multiple gods, You finally admitted that there was a mormon council of gods that met, you cannot say you do not believe in multiple gods.

 

[A New Dawn]

So here she goes again:
I already did a post with her in which she alleged the 1830 BOM taught the trinity and it was "changed." And I presume it was her who reported me for it. I showed the current BOM has the exact same words.
Joney cannot accept that 3 can be one God unless one accepts the doctrine of the trinity. Wake up world!!! One can and should believe Jesus and the Bible and the Godhead and not the errant doctrine of the trinity which teaches an errant and changing concept of the oneness of God - at first it left out the Holy Ghost - and unbiblical concepts of Christ being begotten before all worlds and now being eternally begotten, etc. Take your pick people as to which doctrine of the trinity you believe, because they are all of man.

Well, actually, the 1830 BoM has language that would be considered modalistic, which was changed in the second printing of the BoM so it reflects more of a Trinitarian nature. I can reproduce those changes for you if you are interested.

 

[samcarternx]

Well, actually, the 1830 BoM has language that would be considered modalistic, which was changed in the second printing of the BoM so it reflects more of a Trinitarian nature. I can reproduce those changes for you if you are interested.

Thank you New Dawn I already have a bible, and if people cannot do what in this one, why do you think they will another one?

 

[Rescued One]

Many years ago (pre internet) I was looking for a copy of D&C. I called a LDS ward and asked if I could buy a copy of D&C. The question they asked was "Why?" I replied, "To read it."

So I went there to purchase it and again after I paid them $9.00 they asked "Why do you want this?"

In fact, everyone came out of their offices to watch me buy it. After I went home and read it I understood their concern.

That's semi-funny.

 

[Rescued One]

Thank you New Dawn I already have a bible, and if people cannot do what in this one, why do you think they will another one?

The Book of Mormon isn't a version of the Bible. But she was offering you the opportunity to look at the changes to the BoM.

 

[Rescued One]

[

 

[samcarternx]

[

Oh thank you Phoebe Ann, I thought BOM was another bible.

 

[Rescued One]

Oh thank you Phoebe Ann, I thought BOM was another bible.

LOL Sorry.

 

[Ran77]

Many years ago (pre internet) I was looking for a copy of D&C. I called a LDS ward and asked if I could buy a copy of D&C. The question they asked was "Why?" I replied, "To read it."

So I went there to purchase it and again after I paid them $9.00 they asked "Why do you want this?"

In fact, everyone came out of their offices to watch me buy it. After I went home and read it I understood their concern.

Wards don't sell Doctrine & Covenants. In fact, they don't sell anything at all.


:o

 

[drstevej]

Wards don't sell Doctrine & Covenants. In fact, they don't sell anything at all.


:o

Or stake office. In any case it was a office with a small book store.

 

[Ran77]

Or stake office. In any case it was a office with a small book store.

They don't sell anything out of the Stake Center either. At least, not that I've never heard or seen.

 

[drstevej]

They don't sell anything out of the Stake Center either. At least, not that I've never heard or seen.

Fact is, I looked them up in the phone book and went and purchased the book. It was a large print one at that. Still have it.

 

[Rescued One]

I've been to LDS book stores on private property and at a regular public storefront.

 

[drstevej]

This place was like a small suite of offices in a retail area and in the reception area they had a few shelves of books for sale.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Worldly wisdom:

Proverbs 21:20

The wise store up choice food and olive oil, but fools gulp theirs down.

The Wisdom of Jesus:

Matthew 6:19

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

Is this a good contrast to make? Proverbs is talking about storing food for emergencies rather than living for the moment and consuming everything right now. Are you seriously suggesting that Jesus is suggesting the opposite in the Matt 6 passage? Is it wise to be wasteful rather than cautious? Party tonight at my place!!

Wow.

Worldly wisdom:

Proverbs 14:24
The crown of the wise is their riches, But the folly of fools is foolishness.

Godly wisdom:

Revelations 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Jesus is poor Luke 9:58
Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

Again, a misunderstanding of Proverbs. The proverb is saying that the wisdom of the wise is their riches. It's their wisdom that is their crown. This runs perfectly parallel and contrasts to the next like where the folly of fools is foolishness.

Wisdom is also described elsewhere in Proverbs as being a crown (4:7-9).

 

[williamgramsmith]

I agree it is clearly an attempt to deceive.

No it's not....

It's the Gospel of Christ that converts, saves, and exalts, not "doctrines".
Doctrines and practices only help get one there.