Philosophies of men mingled with scriptures

[fatboys]

After reading some of the posts that were directed at the LDS and the continual rehashing of tired arguments, Clearly made some observations which have been posted about early Christian beliefs not found in the bible as clear as non biblical writings. That got me to wondering when these beliefs of pre existence were left behind and how the philosophies of modern Christianity replaced these earlier beliefs and why?

 

[Soulgazer]

After reading some of the posts that were directed at the LDS and the continual rehashing of tired arguments, Clearly made some observations which have been posted about early Christian beliefs not found in the bible as clear as non biblical writings. That got me to wondering when these beliefs of pre existence were left behind and how the philosophies of modern Christianity replaced these earlier beliefs and why?

The two biggest centuries in terms of major changes in Christian philosophy were the second and the sixteenth. A third period was in the nineteenth tied in with the Theosophy movement.

 

[Raimi Stranger]

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

the 'problem' for most men is that we can lie and so most do, even to ourselves , so even the billion or so saying they are 'Christian' are denied by Christ for their continual sin all their lives [thus actually not repented at all]

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

so how many actually change their beliefs to Love in obedience to God ... very few [Matt 7:13-14] and the rest destroyed for sin, so what use lookijg at the history of mankind or evolution of religion of sinners [the vast majority of men]... you are lookijg in the wrong way for the Truth, Jesus told us the ONLY way possible for self-deceitful mankind and it is far from complete by the time man's politics an soothsaying [lying] religions destroy life on earth [already we are told we are in mass extinction of life, the web of life broken so that life cannot recover from mankind here...

so indeed the only 'philosophy' worthy of consideration , given only lip-service by most, is to Love one another as God says and many TALK about but don't do...

thus the only meaningful change in beliefs was Jesus teaching men the actual Truth and later revealing the whole future of the two universes and up to three lives it takes before all men accept his rule by Love as he states we all shall [confirmed by God that He will do ALL His pleasure through Jesus and His pleasure is that even the wicked nall turn around to Love to make creation ONE in Love, like unto God... as below, so above, then...so the judgment of God is simply of who Loves and who does not, progressively saving men from ourselves in stages as laid out in scripture... and giving the lie to religious tradition that claims salvation is all at once....

so my friend you are wasting your time looking in the wrong place, sinners cannot tell anyone the Truth of Love about God because they sin, the very opposite of what God command... and His reason for commning Love ? - simply that facing God as a sinner is certain death, so no-one can be taught by God as Jesus promised until they do what Jesus said, Love, not sin any more against God and men making all unhappy... God thus will not baptise sinners nor answer their prayers... but one needs to realise how many are sinners in this earth, Jesus states how many he takes, confirmed as literal by Jude 1:14...that is then about one in three million alive today are saints of God following Jesus, the rest are sinners and will be destroyed because they refuse to Love now and only death can free them from sin [Rom 6:7]...thus Jesus does well, saved 144,000 all by his own efforts alone, but Satan wins over the whole world to sin as normal life -Rev 13:3-4 - and so destroys life on earth , most terribly even -Matt 24- God allows it because men must see that sin destroys them, but man makes this universe of no more use to God by sin... the new covenant with Israel however ensures that the quota of saints to build and run the kingdom come in the new earth is filled before men destroy life here

but surely then you see that the changes in religion of sinners that lead to unifying in faith in Satan as god of all men are irrelevant except that they form the basis of trial of teh Love of saints [to death, as Jesus, as the Inquisition, as the final attempt by Satan to kill all saints of God for 'heresy' to his worldwide mass religion once he has power over all the world [bar a couple of thousand saints scattered worldwide doing Jesus' tasks as in scripture]

your mistake then is to listen to sinners and never rad that Jesus promised the whole Truth from God simply to anyone who obeys him and Loves, STOPS sinning when they finally repent the abuse of sinning against God and men and life on earth...

 

[timewerx]

Worldly wisdom:

Proverbs 21:20

The wise store up choice food and olive oil, but fools gulp theirs down.

The Wisdom of Jesus:

Matthew 6:19

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.

Worldly wisdom:

Proverbs 14:24
The crown of the wise is their riches, But the folly of fools is foolishness.

Godly wisdom:

Revelations 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Jesus is poor Luke 9:58
Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

 

[joneysd]

After reading some of the posts that were directed at the LDS and the continual rehashing of tired arguments, Clearly made some observations which have been posted about early Christian beliefs not found in the bible as clear as non biblical writings. That got me to wondering when these beliefs of pre existence were left behind and how the philosophies of modern Christianity replaced these earlier beliefs and why?

if some of these early beliefs include God being man before he was God, I could see the problem with the changes about pre existance.

 

[Rescued One]

Lies of men:

I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it has no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse,
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign May 1971 - ensign

God is not a created being; we are created beings and God has the power to create the spirits of men.


God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971 - ensign

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971 - ensign


Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, c. 1976, p. 346-347

 

[A New Dawn]

After reading some of the posts that were directed at the LDS and the continual rehashing of tired arguments, Clearly made some observations which have been posted about early Christian beliefs not found in the bible as clear as non biblical writings. That got me to wondering when these beliefs of pre existence were left behind and how the philosophies of modern Christianity replaced these earlier beliefs and why?

You have to remember that when Christianity started, it was a new religion with no specific beliefs/traditions/practices. It was made up as they went. Were there some basics? Yes, but the sum total of Christianity didn't spring into being on the day of Pentecost. You also have to remember that the members of 1st century Christianity were Jews and pagans who were converted to Christ. And they all wanted to bring their own pet beliefs/practices/rituals with them and just do the same thing under a different name. You can see that happening in lots of places in the early church, but as it grew and people started understanding what Christ's teachings meant and learned to apply them in their daily lives, many of those practices had to go by the wayside. So just because something might have been believed/practiced in early Christianity doesn't mean that it was a true and just practice/belief.

And just like you don't like the rehashing of tired arguments, neither do we. If you choose to ignore what happened historically and Biblically in Christianity, that does not mean that Christianity has put off valid practices/beliefs/traditions/rituals.

 

[Raimi Stranger]

You have to remember that when Christianity started, it was a new religion with no specific beliefs/traditions/practices. It was made up as they went. Were there some basics? Yes, but the sum total of Christianity didn't spring into being on the day of Pentecost. You also have to remember that the members of 1st century Christianity were Jews and pagans who were converted to Christ. And they all wanted to bring their own pet beliefs/practices/rituals with them and just do the same thing under a different name. You can see that happening in lots of places in the early church, but as it grew and people started understanding what Christ's teachings meant and learned to apply them in their daily lives, many of those practices had to go by the wayside. So just because something might have been believed/practised in early Christianity doesn't mean that it was a true and just practice/belief.

And just like you don't like the rehashing of tired arguments, neither do we. If you choose to ignore what happened historically and Biblically in Christianity, that does not mean that Christianity has put off valid practices/beliefs/traditions/rituals.

'Christianity' lost its way by following men, not Jesus ...Jesus NEVER created a mass religion but has only some tens of thousands of followers in some two millennia ... so about two thousand only are alive at any one time... FEW find the way -Matt 7:13-14- , this is NOT a mass religion, not 'Chrsitianity' then

understand then that Jesus himself revealed that mass religion is of Satan, not of him -Rev 13:3-4 - the many of mass religion cannot be saved now because they will not change their belief in Satan's lies of religious tradition of men :-

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

the test is NOT sincerity, many are sincerely deluded because they refuse to even check their beliefs against EVERY word of God let alone stop sinning so God can baptise them to know all Truth from Him -NOT from men...

quite simply no-one can get into teh kingdom without spirit baptism so one has to either stop sinning by choice in life now or be freed of sin by death like all sinners [religious or not, it makes no difference, sin is abuse not Love and Jesus and God command Love... consider, no sinner can be saved until they repent, stop sinning, grace covers only past sins, death removes one's life so one cannot learn to Love all folks [as God requires of all folks] until the next life...

But God is patient, 144,000 saints from thsi earth is all God required of Jesus' work because that is enough to create and run the kingdom come in the new earth where billions are later saved -Rev 7:9-10- by works after all are freed from hell -Rev 20:13 -[Jesus again contradicting 'Christianity' on this', the many are saved later, not now] ... the many are saved by works after death then, only teh few of this life are saved by grace of the new covenant with Israel's two nations [not just with the 'Jews'!- the House of Israel is far more numerous than the Jews, House of Judah - and jesus was sent by God ONLY to the House of Israel scattered amongst and living as gentiles...scattered worldwide worshiping idols [not Judaism then!] long before the Jews were scattered

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Matthew 15:24 But he [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

so let us face it, FEW people even kniow who9 the House of Israel were , let alone that they are the MAJORITY of Israel and live as gentiles all over the world today...

so how could more than a few be saved now, Satan has deceived all who call themselves priests now and dress up in church buildings worldwide pretending to be holy as sinners and teaching sinners they are saved so long as the keep coming to pay the churches of men...

all seven churches of God were destroyed by the Romans when they set up fake Christianity, stealing Jesus title for their pagan religion of sun-day worship loosely camouflaged by modifying the scriptures somewhat [but not enough that the lies are not crystal clear to anyone who checks out every word as is required of sinners if they are not ready to stop sinning and learn from God as Jesus promised, but only to those who Love, not sin any more... following his way of Love ,not Satan's way of sin throughout life to prevent spirit baptism and answering of prayers by God]

so a common enough mistake, but lethal indeed, to msitajke religion to be about God and christ when it is Satan's toy for keeping men from spirit baptism, Truth from God , as promised by Jesus but NOT to anyone stuill sinning [as it would kill anyone still sinning- Satan knows this , most men do not realise that facing God in spirit baptism is lethal to sinners, so there would be no point in God doing what men ask ... it is just ignorance of sinners tocall on the name of God , but ther's the sadnes, many convince themselves they are saved [they do not even know that is God's judgment at Jesus' return for the few and later again at judgment day for the many, not for any man to say!]

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

thus God's few saints will never claim they are saints as it is God's decision ,not ours... and not now ...
and of course it is the same with folks who claim they are saved [because they were told by sinners in frocks], but of course no-one is saved before translation to spirit and that is God's decision, we cannot knwo, so it is a sin to presume God's judgement and proves one is not saved because one is still a sinner... sad but common enough...

 

[fatboys]

You have to remember that when Christianity started, it was a new religion with no specific beliefs/traditions/practices. It was made up as they went. Were there some basics? Yes, but the sum total of Christianity didn't spring into being on the day of Pentecost. You also have to remember that the members of 1st century Christianity were Jews and pagans who were converted to Christ. And they all wanted to bring their own pet beliefs/practices/rituals with them and just do the same thing under a different name. You can see that happening in lots of places in the early church, but as it grew and people started understanding what Christ's teachings meant and learned to apply them in their daily lives, many of those practices had to go by the wayside. So just because something might have been believed/practiced in early Christianity doesn't mean that it was a true and just practice/belief.

And just like you don't like the rehashing of tired arguments, neither do we. If you choose to ignore what happened historically and Biblically in Christianity, that does not mean that Christianity has put off valid practices/beliefs/traditions/rituals.

Dawn, if what you said is true, then what makes you think that what we have today is what was believed during this time? It is a fact that there were teachings taught by just as credible writers as those who's writings made it into the bible and also doctrines of mainstream Christianity. What right did those who compiled the bible have to exclude them from it? Could it be that the beliefs of those who had the most votes are the ones who decided the what is scriptures and what is not? If the Jews believed that there was a pre existence long before it was taught during Christianity, why was it dumped?

 

[fatboys]

'Christianity' lost its way by following men, not Jesus ...Jesus NEVER created a mass religion but has only some tens of thousands of followers in some two millennia ... so about two thousand only are alive at any one time... FEW find the way -Matt 7:13-14- , this is NOT a mass religion, not 'Chrsitianity' then

understand then that Jesus himself revealed that mass religion is of Satan, not of him -Rev 13:3-4 - the many of mass religion cannot be saved now because they will not change their belief in Satan's lies of religious tradition of men :-

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

the test is NOT sincerity, many are sincerely deluded because they refuse to even check their beliefs against EVERY word of God let alone stop sinning so God can baptise them to know all Truth from Him -NOT from men...

quite simply no-one can get into teh kingdom without spirit baptism so one has to either stop sinning by choice in life now or be freed of sin by death like all sinners [religious or not, it makes no difference, sin is abuse not Love and Jesus and God command Love... consider, no sinner can be saved until they repent, stop sinning, grace covers only past sins, death removes one's life so one cannot learn to Love all folks [as God requires of all folks] until the next life...

But God is patient, 144,000 saints from thsi earth is all God required of Jesus' work because that is enough to create and run the kingdom come in the new earth where billions are later saved -Rev 7:9-10- by works after all are freed from hell -Rev 20:13 -[Jesus again contradicting 'Christianity' on this', the many are saved later, not now] ... the many are saved by works after death then, only teh few of this life are saved by grace of the new covenant with Israel's two nations [not just with the 'Jews'!- the House of Israel is far more numerous than the Jews, House of Judah - and jesus was sent by God ONLY to the House of Israel scattered amongst and living as gentiles...scattered worldwide worshiping idols [not Judaism then!] long before the Jews were scattered

Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Matthew 15:24 But he [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

so let us face it, FEW people even kniow who9 the House of Israel were , let alone that they are the MAJORITY of Israel and live as gentiles all over the world today...

so how could more than a few be saved now, Satan has deceived all who call themselves priests now and dress up in church buildings worldwide pretending to be holy as sinners and teaching sinners they are saved so long as the keep coming to pay the churches of men...

all seven churches of God were destroyed by the Romans when they set up fake Christianity, stealing Jesus title for their pagan religion of sun-day worship loosely camouflaged by modifying the scriptures somewhat [but not enough that the lies are not crystal clear to anyone who checks out every word as is required of sinners if they are not ready to stop sinning and learn from God as Jesus promised, but only to those who Love, not sin any more... following his way of Love ,not Satan's way of sin throughout life to prevent spirit baptism and answering of prayers by God]

so a common enough mistake, but lethal indeed, to msitajke religion to be about God and christ when it is Satan's toy for keeping men from spirit baptism, Truth from God , as promised by Jesus but NOT to anyone stuill sinning [as it would kill anyone still sinning- Satan knows this , most men do not realise that facing God in spirit baptism is lethal to sinners, so there would be no point in God doing what men ask ... it is just ignorance of sinners tocall on the name of God , but ther's the sadnes, many convince themselves they are saved [they do not even know that is God's judgment at Jesus' return for the few and later again at judgment day for the many, not for any man to say!]

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

thus God's few saints will never claim they are saints as it is God's decision ,not ours... and not now ...
and of course it is the same with folks who claim they are saved [because they were told by sinners in frocks], but of course no-one is saved before translation to spirit and that is God's decision, we cannot knwo, so it is a sin to presume God's judgement and proves one is not saved because one is still a sinner... sad but common enough...

I agree with much of what you say, but I would also say that we need to examine all of God's words. Not just those found in the Bible which was compiled by uninspired man.

 

[fatboys]

Lies of men:

I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man—the immortal part, because it has no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two; then it has a beginning and an end; but join it again, and it continues one eternal round. So with the spirit of man. As the Lord liveth, if it had a beginning, it will have an end. All the fools and learned and wise men from the beginning of creation, who say that the spirit of man had a beginning, prove that it must have an end; and if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the house-tops that God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself.
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse,
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign May 1971 - ensign

God is not a created being; we are created beings and God has the power to create the spirits of men.


God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971 - ensign

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.
Joseph Smith, King Follett Discourse
The King Follett Sermon - Ensign Apr. 1971 - ensign


Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, c. 1976, p. 346-347

I think I know why some leave the LDS church. You think that we believe that we have to be perfect in this life. Because you did could not, you were so depressed and went into neutral. While there you felt relieved and so your obvious escape was to leave LDS. That is why those say that it is freedom. Stay on topic

 

[A New Dawn]

Dawn, if what you said is true, then what makes you think that what we have today is what was believed during this time? It is a fact that there were teachings taught by just as credible writers as those who's writings made it into the bible and also doctrines of mainstream Christianity. What right did those who compiled the bible have to exclude them from it? Could it be that the beliefs of those who had the most votes are the ones who decided the what is scriptures and what is not? If the Jews believed that there was a pre existence long before it was taught during Christianity, why was it dumped?

What, in your opinion, makes someone "just as credible" as Christ or Paul or Peter? Why do you not trust God to make sure He can protect His own? Why do you think that God would allow His own son to die a horrible death, a death meant to free His people from their sins, only to allow that death and everything else to fall into oblivion in just a few short years? I think this is a matter of trust between you (and anyone else who lacks the ability to trust God to uphold what He promised in Christ) and God.

 

[RevelationTestament]

What, in your opinion, makes someone "just as credible" as Christ or Paul or Peter? Why do you not trust God to make sure He can protect His own? Why do you think that God would allow His own son to die a horrible death, a death meant to free His people from their sins, only to allow that death and everything else to fall into oblivion in just a few short years? I think this is a matter of trust between you (and anyone else who lacks the ability to trust God to uphold what He promised in Christ) and God.

Believing that man went astray from God is not a stretch. God seems to believe man is prone to this.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and יהוה hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Even you admit that

You have to remember that when Christianity started, it was a new religion with no specific beliefs/traditions/practices. It was made up as they went. Were there some basics? Yes, but the sum total of Christianity didn't spring into being on the day of Pentecost. You also have to remember that the members of 1st century Christianity were Jews and pagans who were converted to Christ. And they all wanted to bring their own pet beliefs/practices/rituals with them and just do the same thing under a different name.

The tired excuse that God won't let the followers go astray is not historical. Even while the Israelites had Moses and had seen the mighty miracles of Egypt, they went astray - almost immediately - and made a golden calf to worship. This does not mean that God won't correct His church or men.
God promised to restore all things through Christ. So when men went astray, God began to restore the truth - once again. This is consistent with prophecy in the NT and Revelation 12.

 

[A New Dawn]

Believing that man went astray from God is not a stretch. God seems to believe man is prone to this.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and יהוה hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Even you admit that
The tired excuse that God won't let the followers go astray is not historical. Even while the Israelites had Moses and had seen the mighty miracles of Egypt, they went astray - almost immediately - and made a golden calf to worship. This does not mean that God won't correct His church or men.
God promised to restore all things through Christ. So when men went astray, God began to restore the truth - once again. This is consistent with prophecy in the NT and Revelation 12.

God said "I will never leave you nor forsake you". He also said "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there will I be in the midst of them".

There is a lot of difference between men going astray and God abandoning us. You might be able to support the first (on an individual basis), but you could never support the latter. And allowing the death of His son to become a meaningless gesture would be an example of the latter, not the first. Therefore, it never happened.

 

[RevelationTestament]

God said "I will never leave you nor forsake you". He also said "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there will I be in the midst of them".

There is a lot of difference between men going astray and God abandoning us. You might be able to support the first (on an individual basis), but you could never support the latter. And allowing the death of His son to become a meaningless gesture would be an example of the latter, not the first. Therefore, it never happened.

You have to consider that this was speaking spiritually. Christ would be with those who remembered Him. This does not mean the church did not go astray. Those who earnestly tried to follow Christ were the minority - and were called heretics, and persecuted and even killed - by who? - the church.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Now traditionally, Christians have said this prince is Satan - not an earthly leader, but that conflicts with Jesus' words:
John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

To be judged, this must be an earthly leader who leads the followers away.

 

[Rescued One]

I think I know why some leave the LDS church. You think that we believe that we have to be perfect in this life. Because you did could not, you were so depressed and went into neutral. While there you felt relieved and so your obvious escape was to leave LDS. That is why those say that it is freedom. Stay on topic

Are you practicing your mind reading again? Well, you won't pass this time either.

 

[Rescued One]

I agree with much of what you say, but I would also say that we need to examine all of God's words. Not just those found in the Bible which was compiled by uninspired man.

Are you saying that God inspires men to put His word into writing and then decides His word wasn't that important anyway...He just allows men to do whatever they want with it? Are you a deist?

 

[Ran77]

Are you saying that God inspires men to put His word into writing and then decides His word wasn't that important anyway...He just allows men to do whatever they want with it? Are you a deist?

That isn't what he stated. But it does provide a perfect example why it is best not to trust your interpretation and subsequent presentation of LDS doctrines. It is evident by your statements that you are unable to understand what the LDS mean.

 

[fatboys]

What, in your opinion, makes someone "just as credible" as Christ or Paul or Peter? Why do you not trust God to make sure He can protect His own? Why do you think that God would allow His own son to die a horrible death, a death meant to free His people from their sins, only to allow that death and everything else to fall into oblivion in just a few short years? I think this is a matter of trust between you (and anyone else who lacks the ability to trust God to uphold what He promised in Christ) and God.

They are credible. But they did not teach all there is to know about the gospel. They only taught the parts people struggled with, such as the resurrection. There is so much more to the gospel. Belief is just the beginning. Christ promised us life. But we have a choice. Man mingled their own thoughts with the pure teachings of Christ.

 

[A New Dawn]

You have to consider that this was speaking spiritually. Christ would be with those who remembered Him. This does not mean the church did not go astray. Those who earnestly tried to follow Christ were the minority - and were called heretics, and persecuted and even killed - by who? - the church.

The church is the individual believers. There is no organization that is "the church". Given that truth, it is impossible for the church to persecute the church. Believers persecuting each other is incomprehensible. Believers combating heresies, that I can see, but combating each other? No.