Philosophical WH40K Question

[LightHorseman]

OK, I'm a nerd, you know it, I know it, so lets get it out in the open. I feel comfortable admitting it these days, since the Lord of the Rings movies made it socially acceptible to come out of the Narnia. So now we've covered that...

I know several of you are familiar with the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K universe(s). My first ever real paying job was in a games store where I was the resident expert on such things, so that uninitiated parents could ask me what their kids needed for their armies and so on, way back in the days of version 2 and Space Hulk, only shortly after the old "Rogue Trader" days. I used to play, but eventually I got more into the miniatures, and having moved around and lost several playing groups, now I pretty much limit myself to the painting and ignore the gaming. However, over the years, the back story has always facinated me, and since there has never really been a complete lay down misere about how it all came to be, when the Heresy series of novels were released, which is a blow by blow account of how Horus rebelled against the Emeror and the motivations of the different Primarchs and other factions, I started reading them.

Its interesting. I expected it to be fairly straight forward and a little undergraduate (40K is, after all, supposed to be for kids, right?) but there are some very subtle nuances and quite insightful threads running throw the maelstrom. Very little is straight forward, and none of the "badies" are actually "bad", each of them appears to have a motive which, in the context of the individual, is quite righteous.

So, here's my question... The whole 40K universe is steeped in Judeo-Christian imagery and reference, but out of the 2 main protagonists, the Emperor and Horus, who is the Christ figure and who is the anti-Christ? From the 10000 years on perspective, clearly the Emperor is portrayed as the Messiah and Horus is the betrayer, but thats after 10000 years of Ecclesiarchy dogma and the propaganda of the victors. But in actual fact of what ACTUALLY occurs circa 30K during the Heresy, one could argue that it is Horus and the traitor Primarchs that are fighting for some sort of salvation for mankind, while the Emperor is far more the oppressor. They both even have a "died and rose again, then ascended to a different plane" aspect to their naratives, though quite different in form.

Thoughts?

 

[Chesterton]

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I think if someone creates a narrative which you suppose features a Christ figure, and you can't figure out who the Christ figure is, then:

1. There really isn't supposed to be a Christ figure;

2. The creator of the narrative misunderstands Christ; or

3. The creator of the narrative may understand Christ but is not a very good writer/storyteller.

 

[LightHorseman]

The point is that the narrative features two main protagonists, BOTH of whom, it seems, have both Christ like and anti-Christ like properties, and further, that subsequent to their initial confrontation, the actions of their respective followers cloud the issue even further.

 

[Freodin]

I have always been more into WHFB (the fantays variant of Warhammer, for you non-nerds) than into 40K, so my knowledge of the internas might be a little lacking.

But from what I know I´d say that orientation is quite clear, even if it does not follow the usual "good/bad" orientation of Christianity. (And, people, please keep in mind: WH40K is a game, and it is meant to be dark and gloomy - it is in no way based on or commenting on Christianity, other than common human literary concepts)

Horus and most of the "traitor legions" have been corrupted to a (or several) self-serving philosophies. The "Chaos" is not necessarily evil, but it is inhuman - it, in some cases literally, removes the individual from humanity.
The Emperor - and his living followers - are the total antithesis: only the abstract "humanity" is cared for, the individual is worth nothing.

 

[Alunyel]

Allow me to quote a lecture to a group of student Remembrancers, in the first book of the Horus Heresy:

"Great actions have shaped our society," Sindermann said. "The greatest of these, physically, has been the Emperor's formal and complete unification of Terra, the outward sequel to which, this Great Crusade, we are now engaged upon. But the greatest, intellectually, has been our casting off of that heavy mantle called religion. Religion damned our species for thousands of years. From the lowest superstition to the highest conclaves of faith. It drove us to madness, to war, to murder, it hung upon us like a disease, like a shackle ball. I'll tell you what religion was... No, you tell me. You, there?"

"Ignorance, sir."

"Thank you, Khanna. Ignorance. since the earliest times, our species has striven to understand the workings of the cosmos, and where that understanding has failled, or fallen short, we have filled the gaps, plastered over the discrepancies, with blind faith. Why does the sun go round the sky? I don't know, so I will attribute it to the efforts of a sun god with a golden chariot. Why do people die? I can't say, but I will choose to believe it is the murkey buisness of some reaper who carries souls to some afterworld."

His audience laughed. Sindermann got down off of his podium and walked to the front steps of the stage, beyond the range of the vox mics.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The God-Emperor is the Christ figure. The literature strongly alludes that the major mythological figures of Earth's history are actually one and the same man: he who now rests on the Golden Throne on Holy Terra.

One such historical figure was/is Jesus. Thus, the God-Emperor was/is Jesus.

 

[Gishin]

You put far too much stock in that fledgling seer you call the "God-Emperor" you foolish mon-keigh.

 

[Nooj]

I see more parallels with the God Emperor to be honest. Horus doesn't have Primarchs/aka disciples, and if the Star Child theory is correct, there's going to be a second-coming (that is, if GW ever prise their arses off their enormous pile of money and decide to move the storyline along).

Why does the sun go round the sky? I don't know, so I will attribute it to the efforts of a sun god with a golden chariot.

Why isn't this weapon working? I don't know, lets flagellate ourselves to appease the machine spirit! Oh, how the mighty have fallen.