• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Philosophical arguments against the existence of God

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
42,441
45,567
Los Angeles Area
✟1,013,301.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
You too must have refutations of every argument for the existence of God. If you will, please send them to me in an email. Thanks.

Since you don't want to talk about the topic of your own thread, maybe you should delete it.
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
I would consider your first statement objectively false. Though there is no conclusive proof of the existence of a god, there is evidence. For instance, there is the testimony of the many people that say they have had personal contact with a god. That is evidence. You may personally reject the validity of that evidence,but it is not correct to say it is not evidence. Humans are unnecessary entities as well but they still exist so being unnecessary does not preclude one from existing. Gods, or a god, being unnecessary is as irrelevant to the question of whether a god or gods exist as the fact that there is suffering.
I agree that there is lots of evidence for gods. Terrible evidence, for sure, but lots of it. I do not find it compelling.

There is evidence that Earth is being visited by extraterrestrial aliens, from sightings to abduction testimonies. What measures have you personally taken to protect yourself and your family against the risk of alien abduction?
 
Upvote 0

anonymous person

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2015
3,326
507
40
✟75,394.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I'm not a believer in gods due to any of them. QED.

Look, if you're just going to ignore what I write there's no point in taking you, or the arguments you imply that I'm missing, very seriously. It just looks like you have nothing concrete to base your faith on. Is that really how you want to portray your religion? All it does it give confidence to people who view it as random guessing backing up wishful thinking.



Where have I claimed that? The frequent need to resort to canned responses rather than actually addressing real objections to faith is yet another clue that there's nothing substantial behind religious belief.



Feel free to post your e-mail address in this thread. I'm not going to respond to it, but you've got a God to protect you from spammers so knock yourself out.

Wonder if it will be the same e-mail as some previously-banned posters, though. Wouldn't that be interesting.

I didn't think you would send me these refutations. You don't have them.

You have not dealt in depth with all of the arguments for the existence of God. You have not dealt in depth with all of the evidence.

Rather you come on a Christian website In a philosophy forum and say that your philosophical argument against the existence of God is that there is no evidence that God exists which is not even an argument. It is a statement I have asked you to support which you refuse to do.

Thank you.
 
Upvote 0

quatona

"God"? What do you mean??
May 15, 2005
37,512
4,302
✟182,802.00
Faith
Seeker
I would be very surprised if you had refutations of every argument for the existence of God. Care to send them to me in an email?
Since the term "God" isn´t copyrighted, since everyone can define it as they see fit, since most definitions aren´t proper definitions, the term "God" indeed doesn´t lend itself to the scrutiny required to "refute every argument" for each God´s existence.
 
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,651
7,205
✟343,079.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Because atheists are the ones making claims that Judeo-Christian values are evil and objectively bad

I think you are very confused about what atheism is, exactly.
Some atheists may do this - although in my personal experience I have never seen an atheist make that particular set of claims - but all atheism requires is a lack of acceptance of the claims of theism, no more no less.

and are doing so without any grounds for doing so that are not borrowed from a theistic view of the world wherein moral values and duties are grounded in a transcendent good..

Demonstrate how virtue ethics and situational morality are grounded in a theistic worldview, please.
 
Upvote 0

AionPhanes

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2015
841
430
Michigan
✟25,674.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
The Omni thing is hard to work out in a consistent way. Process Theism rejects it all together. I don't believe the term "maximally powerful" is used but I've seen the phrase "perfect power". Process Theism rejects the idea that God has absolute coercive power. If being is power, as accepted by many process theists, there can be no absolute power over other beings. God could only have Omni power if he was the only being in existence (say if all us were merely illusions and had no being of our own) but PT rejects that idea also. There was a book I was reading yesterday that discussed this idea; "A Platonic Philosophy of Religion, A Process Perspective.":

"In their ultimate individuality, beings, if they are instances of dynamic power, can be influenced by God, but they cannot be utterly coerced. As Hartshorne put the point, "power is influence, perfect power is perfect influence. Or again to have perfect power over all individuals is not to have all power. The greatest possible power over individuals cannot leave them powerless if being IS power Hence even perfect power must leave something for others to decide...

[quoting Hartshorne]:

'Power must be exercised upon something, at least if by power we mean influence, control; but the something controlled cannot be absolutely inert, since the merely passive, that which has no active tendency of it's own, is nothing; yet if the something acted upon is itself partly active, then there must be resistance, however slight, to the "absolute" power, and how can power which is resisted be absolute.'

If being is power, then any relation in which one of the related things was wholly powerless would be a relation in which "the thing" was absolutely nothing: an impossibility. No matter how lowly a thing may be, if it is a real individual it reacts upon things; cells, molecule, and electrons do not provide exceptions to the view of being as power."​

Process Theism involves a panentheistic view of God and is a form of naturalistic theism***.

***NATURALISTIC THEISM (from Charles Hartshornes webpage)

" A world of finite events exists necessarily, not through the arbitrary decision of the divine will. The existence of a plurality of finite experiences is as natural as God's own existence. The nature of the relations between God and the world is therefore a natural, necessary feature of reality. The Hartshornean position hence says not only that every event has a creative power--[1] the power to shape itself in part, and [2] the power to influence future events. It also says that the fact that every event has this twofold creative power is not simply a "fact," that is, not simply a contingent feature of our world. It is a necessary, natural feature of reality, not an arbitrary decree of the divine will that could have been otherwise and that could be overridden from time to time.

The presence of evil in our world and of every possible world is thereby explained. Evil results from multiple finite freedom, and any world God could have created would have had multiple finite freedom. The possibility of evil is necessary. No particular evils are necessary, but the possibility that evil can occur is necessary. . . . God does influence every event, but divine influence is always persuasion. It could not be unilateral determination.

. . . Freedom and danger necessarily rise proportionately. Because human beings have more freedom than other creatures, they necessarily are more dangerous and more capable of suffering. . . .Besides not determining the future, God does not even know the future, beyond those abstract features of the future that are already determined by the present. "​

Seems like one of the more logical takes on theism to me. I'm still in the process of trying to take in and understand the philosophy and some of it's ramifications but I've been very impressed so far.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Well I've never argued that one must be a theist to make moral judgements. What I have argued is that you being an atheist, have no grounds for denouncing things like genocide as being objectively wrong.

It's an ontological thing, not an epistemological one.

Please tell me the reason, an atheist can not denounce genocide as being wrong?
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
In a world without God, you've got a bunch of opinions and preferences about genocide, which are themselves based on certain opinions. There is no law giver or law to whom we are accountable or that we are obligated to order our opinions or views around.

Man is the measure of man in such a reality.

But you don't live that way I'm sure. You are not even consistent on this forum where nothing you really hold dear is at stake.

So no, I do not consider you to be doing anything other than borrowing from my worldview to compensate for the utter bankrupt nature of yours when it comes to grounds for objective moral values and duties.

And by the way, you can stop with the whole "the bible promotes genocide" argument. It doesnt.

What it does do is show that God will only tolerate unrepentant evil for so long.

Are you saying all Christians agree on what is moral and what is not moral?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DogmaHunter
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Because atheists are the ones making claims that Judeo-Christian values are evil and objectively bad and are doing so without any grounds for doing so that are not borrowed from a theistic view of the world wherein moral values and duties are grounded in a transcendent good.

Any theology, which requires a person believe in that particular theology, or be doomed, is morally bankrupt.

The serial killer who finds Jesus in prison and repents is saved, while the Hindu that leads a life of helping others, is doomed, because they don't believe in the right theology = morally bankrupt.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I didn't think you would send me these refutations. You don't have them.

You have not dealt in depth with all of the arguments for the existence of God. You have not dealt in depth with all of the evidence.

Rather you come on a Christian website In a philosophy forum and say that your philosophical argument against the existence of God is that there is no evidence that God exists which is not even an argument. It is a statement I have asked you to support which you refuse to do.

Thank you.

Are you attempting to pass the burden off to someone else?

It is you claiming your God exists. This means, it is up to you to support this claim.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Would it not be easier to simply look back at the history of the arguments that have been posted in this forum?

I could give you a list of usernames to reference in your search, but you probably already have them.;)
That would involve him revisiting all the threads he's abandoned.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Which arguments are you needing refutations for?
"Oh, you know... all of them."

It's not as if it would matter anyway. Even if every argument were decisively refuted, a.p would still maintain that one ought to believe regardless.
 
Upvote 0

bhsmte

Newbie
Apr 26, 2013
52,761
11,792
✟254,941.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
As he previously claimed that he was "open to be convinced," I had hoped this meant he had distanced himself from Craig's way of thinking. But apparently he hasn't.

I think he felt he needed to say that. I never bought it.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,355
Clarence Center NY USA
✟245,147.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Is God not sovereign? Does He not have control over His own kingdom? Will people be able to do what they want in heaven or will there be limits to what you can do?

I'll let you know if I get to Heaven. Seems to me in your comparison you are jumping to the conclusion that because God can do something he is will do it or even must do it. Being sovereign gives one endless options.
 
Upvote 0