Pets in heaven..

[ethereal_]

I have to be honest.. I don't really understand everything. Maybe no one truly does. At 21, the recent death of a pet has made me more religious and closer to God. I am beginning to study and research, and honestly I have only been to church a few times in my life, and never have studied the bible. My parents did not force me to go to any church or force me into any religion. They wanted things to be up to me. I respect them for that. I have found a way into my journey, in my own time, and I am ready. Forgive me for the things I don't really know about, I am trying to sort it all out. Please correct me on things I say that are wrong, because I am trying to learn.


The Bible speaks of "The Rapture" (nearing the end of the "world" ) when all who are good will be taken from the Earth and sent to heaven. Those who are bad will stay. (I read once a passage about two men in a field, one who was lifted, one who was not.)

They say animals who have died will be raised from the dead during The Rapture. This makes no sense to me because I thought humans and animals (beings with souls) go to Heaven immediately when they die, if Heaven is where they are to go.

Can someone better explain what happens at death, and also about the Rapture, those already passed being raised from the dead, etc.

 

[ethereal_]

I just read this... what is the definition of spirit world in the text...
I am beginning to understand now.. amazing what hours of web surfing can do.

"Isn't it interesting that most Christians believe there are plants and trees in heaven (like the Tree of Life) and yet some say that animals have no souls like human beings and so aren't immortal. Do they believe that plants have immortal souls, then, but not animals? Is an apple tree of more worth than a horse?



The Bible teaches that "all flesh shall see the salvation of God" (Lk.3:6) and that "all the living things in creation - everything that lives in the air, and on the ground, and under the ground, and in the sea" will praise Yahweh and the Lamb" (Rev.5:13). God's care and love extends to even the humble sparrow (Lk.12:6) and He has promised that He will restore all living things (Ac.3:21; Eph.1:10). Death as a whole will be annulled or abolished (1 Cor.15:25-26; 2 Tim.1:10) and the whole creation will be renewed (Rev.21:4-5). The resurrection will affect all celestial (heavenly) creatures and all terrestrial (earthly) ones (1 Cor.15:35-42). There will be a world-wide restoration of all life in its perfect frame - the curse pronounced by God after the Fall will be reversed - parasites will no longer live a parasitical lifestyle, carnivorous animals will become vegetarians, and all will be at peace. I suppose the renewed animal life will be very different from what we see today.



So, yes, I firmly believe your late pets are alive in the spirit world awaiting the resurrection."

 

[Edial]

I had a Bible study prepared on the topic.
Here it is.
It is a bit long, and the formatting is off.
Thanks,
Ed

All dogs go to heaven … and the goldfish too





Arguments against:

• There is nothing about this in the Bible.
• Animals have no souls therefore cannot be saved.

Biblical reply –



Before we proceed we must understand what is the meaning of the word “soul” in the Hebrew language of the Old Testament.



English understanding of the word “soul” is different from the Hebrew “nephesh”. It covers a partial amount of its true meaning. English language simply does not have a word that covers exactly 100% of the true meaning of the Hebrew word “nephesh”.

English language sometimes translates nephesh as “life, I, he, she, creature, etc.). It separates the meanings of “life” and “persona”, such as I, he, she from “nephesh”. (Hebrew has different words for “I, he, she”).

Soul (nephesh; 5315)​

Hebrew NIV KJV NASB NRSV

(times) (times) (times) (times) (times)
660 112 443 245 144



The argument that since animals have no souls and therefore are not saveable is not true. This argument refers to the word “soul” as translated into the English language, not as presented in the Old Testament as “nephesh”.



According to the Bible the creatures in v.21 and things in v.22 in Gen.1:20-23 (NIV) are “nephesh”, or souls.



Why do English translations do not adjust their dictionaries to include a complete understanding of the word soul, as presented in the Bible?

This is partially happening because of the tremendous opposition of the dichotomous view to the tricotomous view.

Although the Bible presents very clearly that technically it is trichotomous – this is ignored by the proponents of the dichotomy. They present much weaker arguments to defend their views. The reason they are so adamant about their view is because it is one of the building blocks of their more complex theological doctrines that depend on that view. If you take that view away their other views might collapse.

Dichotomy, trichotomy views.​

(NIV dictionary)



(Emphasis mine)



SOUL (Heb. nephesh, Gr. psyche). The nonmaterial ego of man in its ordinary relationships with earthly and physical things. The "mind" (nous) is the self in its rational functions. Again "mind" (phronema) is the self as deeply contemplating. "Heart" (kardia) is the self as manifesting a complex of attitudes. "Will" (thelesis) is the self as choosing and deciding. "Spirit" (pneuma) is the self when thought of apart from earthly connections. When the blessed dead in heaven are spoken of as having been put to a martyr's death, they are called "souls" (Rev 6:9). When there is no reference to their former bodily experience, they are called "spirits" (Heb 12:23). (???)



These functional names often overlap. (???) The difference between man and beast is not that man has a soul or spirit (Gen 1:20; 7:15; Eccl 3:21), but that man is created in the image of God, whereas the beast is not.



The above remarks assume dichotomy, that is, that there are only two substantive entities that make up the whole person: (1) the body, which at death returns to dust, awaiting the resurrection, and (2) the nonmaterial self, which if regenerate goes to paradise or heaven; if not, to the abode of the wicked dead. There are many, however, who hold to a trichotomous view, arguing that "soul" and "spirit" are two distinct substantive entities, and the body, a third (1 Cor 15:44; 1 Thess 5:23; Heb 4:12).



Theological reply -

Introduction –



Animals have sprits that continue to exist after death –



ECC 3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth



There are animals in the afterlife –



REV 19:11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.







History -



In the beginning the man was given the responsibility over all of the creation –



GE 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."



Since man fell – everything under his responsibility fell accordingly. Consequently, it is implied that since the ground sustains life the quality of animal life also decreased dramatically –



GE 3:17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, `You must not eat of it,'

"Cursed is the ground because of you;

through painful toil you will eat of it

all the days of your life.

GE 3:18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,

and you will eat the plants of the field.

GE 3:19 By the sweat of your brow

you will eat your food

until you return to the ground,

since from it you were taken;

for dust you are

and to dust you will return."



Spirits and Bodies (in general terms) are united in the Afterlife -



In the afterlife there must be a different type of a body –



1CO 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.



Listing of various types of natural bodies. That includes animals.



1CO 15:35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.

A sweeping statement is made in v.44 that demands that a spiritual body be availale also to the animals –



1CO 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

1CO 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."





Q: So, how do animals get to heaven?



A: All of the Creation (including animals, birds and fish) will be brought into the place where the born-of-God Christians will be after death. And the creatures will be given new spiritual bodies –



RO 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.



RO 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved …

 

[ethereal_]

Thank you for posting that, I am saving it in my notes...
My favorite part?


All of the Creation (including animals, birds and fish) will be brought into the place where the born-of-God Christians will be after death. And the creatures will be given new spiritual bodies –



RO 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.



During the healing process I have had after the death of my dog.. this is one site that I have made that I want to share.

http://www.shibalove.com

 

[Edial]

Thanks, ethereal_.
The Bible clarifies many of the pre-supposed doctrines that we learn from each other that have no Scriptual foundation.
Learning to study the Scriptures critically gives a benefit bigger than one usually expects.
In order to do that, one should presume that a literal interpretation of the Bible (outside of obvious metaphors and figures of speach - and "no" the Revelations is not full of figures of speach) ia the way of approaching it.
Also, since you never studied before - your mind is fresh and is not clottered with various pre-supposed doctrines.
You can re-discover the Bible is a proper way.
There are tools for today that make critical researches quite easy.
(I still am in awe of the "old-time-saints" that studied the Bible without modern research tools).

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Seeking020]

I just read this... what is the definition of spirit world in the text...
I am beginning to understand now.. amazing what hours of web surfing can do.

"Isn't it interesting that most Christians believe there are plants and trees in heaven (like the Tree of Life) and yet some say that animals have no souls like human beings and so aren't immortal. Do they believe that plants have immortal souls, then, but not animals? Is an apple tree of more worth than a horse?...................

so on and so forth.........

there are many different views, sometimes we just have to admit that we don't know the answers and just trust in God that he knows what he is doing. think about it, God let Adam name every single animal!! God's love for animals is reflected in us-I believe-
and God also put the animals in our care, but because of the fall-the forbidden fruit and all that- a consequence was that we would have to live off of animals which probably made Adam very sad, because we are sinners and animals are in our care, they suffer from our sins of neglect, abuse, other things...but I realize that I have to stop worrying about whether animals go to heaven or not and trust God because for a while my mind was just fixated on it, obsessed about what would happen to all of our pets once the rapture happened? are domesticated animals different from feral? the way we gain salvation is accepting Jesus as our savior. We have the knowledge of good and evil which means we have a choice but do animals sin? Do they know the difference? what an animal thinks is right is controlled by their owners, If it was raised to fight it thinks it is doing it's masters will, some are trained to lead the blind, when they poop on our carpets what happens? they know they are in trouble if their owner is unhappy, but their personalities are a reflection of us, Do animals have souls??? that is definitly something to ponder but I know I need to give that fear to God because as I said earlier he knows what he is doing.

 

[andyggtw]

I have just seen this article and I'm going to reply to the last person's comment about whether animals can "sin." Before I begin, let me be honest in saying that I haven't done a considerable amount of study and most of this will simply be stuff that comes to mind immediately.

1st, Examples of animals that acted wilfully:

Baalam's Donkey: Here the donkey, in a act of self-preservation, as much as preservation of its master, saw the angel and prevented Baalam from moving forward. The passage does not seem to suggest that GOD made the donkey stop, but that the donkey possesed the knowledge that further movement, not in accordance with GOD's will, would bring severe consequences.

The Serpent (Possibly?): I mention this because I do not see any indication that the serpent was forcefully made to serve Satan's ends, and in fact, GOD spoke punishment on the serpent (that he should go about on his belly and eat the dust of the earth), as well as Satan, when laying out the consequences for having taken part in the fall.

2nd, Animals that acted contrary to their nature (as we know it), under GOD's control:

The Ark: I don't remember if this is actually set out, but I believe the animals came to Noah, he did not have to go looking for them. GOD divinely caused the animals to come to Noah, to board a ship, and to otherwise not hinder Noah in his seeking of GOD's will.

The Lowing Cattle: When the Philistines realized that the taking of the Ark of the Covenant was bringing the much grief in the form of plagues from GOD, they purposed to return the Ark to Israel. To determine that it was actually GOD who had brought the plagues, they took cows and separated them from their newbord calves, hitched them to a wagon carrying the ark, and let them walk under their own power and direction. The cattle desired to return to their calves (as shown by their lowing), but under GOD's divine power and direction were led back to Israel.

The Fish (Leviathan?): GOD used this marine animal to bring a message of repentance to the sinner's of Nineveh in the person of Jonah, as well as to show Jonah that HE was in control of the Earth and that when HE had indicated HIS will in a matter, He would not be satisfied til it was accomplished.

3rd, Examples of GOD's use of creatures acting out naturally (as we know it) to do supernatural things. (Most numerous)

1st, The plagues. Locusts, Frogs, Gnats all these were animals who acted in GOD's will to supernaturally plague the Egyptians, but their actions were not contrary to their own natural state of action, i.e. the locusts ate the crops as they usually would etc.

2nd, The birds for meat. GOD fed his people meat during their journey to the promised land by providing this flock of birds. While their actions seem kind-of unnatural, I still place this here because birds flocking is not abnormal.

3rd, Biting serpents. GOD punished HIS people for disobedience by sending the biting serpents to plague them. This also gave an opportunity to show HIS diving providence by providing an opportunity for redemption.

4th, The Hornet. While this might be a figure of speech for GOD's power prior to battle, often times the Bible mentions that GOD sent the hornet before the Isrealites to confuse and hinder their enemy. It is obvious that an army stricken by an outrageous number of hornet stings would be a particularly ineffective army, therefore, I believe GOD really did use these creatures supernaturally to cause disruption and bring victory.

As far as sin, GOD does seem to judge animals along with their human counterparts (consider that GOD told the Israelites to destroy ALL of the life from particularly evil people, the Amelikites come to mind, this included the animals which dwelt with these people.) To me this indicates that they "shared" in the sins of their masters in the same way the Earth has "shared" in the sin of Adam and were therefore due the wrath of a HOLY GOD, However, if animals can come against GOD and HIS will, then they can also follow it, both willfully and against their will, therefore I say they can, if not willfully, at least share in sin and judgment, or share in obedience and Glory!!

 

[Edial]

Ha!
Let me absorb it more.
Meanwhile, ahppy Good Friday and Easter.
Thanks,
Ed