Peter Is Not The Rock!

[archierieus]

The beamishboy is mighty impressed. You have an answer for everything!!!!!!!!! You're the Great Protestant Theologian in CF. I hope to encourage you because you are doing a great piece of work defending God's truth!!!

You are much too kind, my friend! But we are discovering some important doctrinal distinctions, and that certainly is helpful.

Dave

 

[prodromos]

The wedding garment is a symbol of Christ's righteousness. Isaiah, a prophet and a righteous man, said, "All our righteousness is as filthy rags." (ch. 59:2) All our efforts, all our good works are as filthy rags. For the believer in Jesus, the garment of Christ's perfect righteousness covers his filthy rags. The guy without the wedding garments illustrates those who try to get to heaven on their own merits. 'Fig-leaf garments,' man's attempts to be righteous. We are sinners, and everything we do, every breath we take, every thought that runs through our minds, is tainted with sin and with self. Jesus Christ alone is pure, holy, spotless, undefiled. The robe of His perfect righteousness is offered to everyone who puts their trust in Him, and in Him alone.

The man without the wedding garment was wearing the same clothes he was brought in off the street in. He was at the wedding feast because God had put him after which this man has made no further effort to prepare for the feast. And then we have the parable of the sheep and the goats where it seems, according to you, we are judged by our filthy rags.

John

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The man without the wedding garment was wearing the same clothes he was brought in off the street in. He was at the wedding feast because God had put him after which this man has made no further effort to prepare for the feast. And then we have the parable of the sheep and the goats where it seems, according to you, we are judged by our filthy rags.

John

Greetings. I view it more as a Covenantal type parable. It could be symbolizing someone of the OC Priesthood under the Law of Moses perhaps. Notice Zeph 1:7 and the Great Sacrifice.

Matthew 22:11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining at table, he saw there a Man not in-clothed/endedu-menon <1746> clothing of wedding-feast: [Luke 16:19/Zeph 1:7]

zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice, He sanctifies ones being called of Him.
8 And He becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit on the chiefs, and on sons of the King, and on all of ones being clothed clothing foreign. [Matt 22:11/Revelation 19]

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Greetings. I view it more as a Covenantal type parable. It could be symbolizing someone of the OC Priesthood under the Law of Moses perhaps. Notice Zeph 1:7 and the Great Sacrifice.

Matthew 22:11 And entering yet the King to gaze of the ones the reclining at table, he saw there a Man not in-clothed/endedu-menon <1746> clothing of wedding-feast: [Luke 16:19/Zeph 1:7]

zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice, He sanctifies ones being called of Him.
8 And He becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit on the chiefs, and on sons of the King, and on all of ones being clothed clothing foreign. [Matt 22:11/Revelation 19]

It appears to go with this interesting verse:

Matthew 26:64 Is saying unto him, the Jesus: "Thou say, moreover I am saying unto ye, from/ap <575> present/now/arti <737> ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights/dexiwn <1188> of the power, and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".

 

[archierieus]

The man without the wedding garment was wearing the same clothes he was brought in off the street in. He was at the wedding feast because God had put him after which this man has made no further effort to prepare for the feast. And then we have the parable of the sheep and the goats where it seems, according to you, we are judged by our filthy rags.

John

They were all wearing their street clothes when they arrived at the feast. They were given the wedding garments when they arrived. the one fellow decided not to put it on.

As for the parable of the sheep and goats, it certainly illustrates the point that those who have been saved by God's grace will manifest that in how they relate to others.

You also referred to the parable of the ten virgins. The oil in the lamps is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, not of their works.

Dave

 

[archierieus]

By the way, thinking of this subject brings to mind words from an old hymn:

"Nothing in my hand I bring, Only to Thy cross I cling."

That is the sinner's only hope--the cross of Jesus, and His perfect righteousness, credited to the believer. Another hymn puts it like this:

"My life of scarlet, my sin and woe, Cover with His life, whiter than snow."

Dave

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It appears to go with this interesting verse:

zeph 1:7 Hush! in presence of my Lord YHWH, that near Day of YHWH. That YHWH prepares a sacrifice, He sanctifies ones being called of Him.
8 And He becomes in Day of sacrifice of YHWH and I visit on the chiefs, and on sons of the King, and on all of ones being clothed clothing foreign. [Matt 22:11/Revelation 19]

Matthew 26:64 Is saying unto him, the Jesus: "Thou say, moreover I am saying unto ye, from/ap <575> present/now/arti <737> ye shall be seeing the Son of the Man sitting out of rights/dexiwn <1188> of the power, and coming upon the clouds of the heaven".

And then the most Famous parable of all:

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

They were all wearing their street clothes when they arrived at the feast. They were given the wedding garments when they arrived. the one fellow decided not to put it on.

As for the parable of the sheep and goats, it certainly illustrates the point that those who have been saved by God's grace will manifest that in how they relate to others.

You also referred to the parable of the ten virgins. The oil in the lamps is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, not of their works.

Dave

Greetings. I also view that as Covenantle.
Notice the Passover in Exodus and when it occurred

Exodus 12:29 And is becoming mid/02677 chetsiy of the night and YHWH smote every of firstborn in land of Egypt, from firstborn of Pharaoh, the one sitting on his throne, unto firstborn of the captive which in house of cistern and every of firstborn of beast.

Matt 25:5 Of tarrying yet the Bridegroom they nod all and are slept.
6 Of middle yet of night a cry has occured "behold! the Bridegroom. Be ye coming out! into meeting of Him".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Greetings. I also view that as Covenantle.
Notice the Passover in Exodus and when it occurred

Exodus 12:29 And is becoming mid/02677 chetsiy of the night and YHWH smote every of firstborn in land of Egypt, from firstborn of Pharaoh, the one sitting on his throne, unto firstborn of the captive which in house of cistern and every of firstborn of beast.

Matt 25:5 Of tarrying yet the Bridegroom they nod all and are slept.
6 Of middle yet of night a cry has occured "behold! the Bridegroom. Be ye coming out! into meeting of Him".

I am actually trying to harmonize that to that darkness in Revelation 16:10 as a type of prelude to the Passover event in Exodus. Pretty interesting.

Luke 23:44 Was yet hour, sixth and darkness became over whole the Land til hour of ninth.
45 And darkened the sun, is rent the veil of the Sanctuary midst. [Revelation 2:5/Revelation 16:10]

Reve 16:10 And the fifth [*messenger] pours out the bowl of him upon the Throne of the beast, and became the Kingdom of it having been Darkened and they gnawed the tongues of them out of the misery.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

OOOPPPPSSS! Looks like we strayed from Peter again

 

[squint]

OOOPPPPSSS! Looks like we strayed from Peter again

It's the typical Protestant RCC hate fest. Not one whit different than Muslims and Jews.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Ahem. The Greek is not a translation

I meant translation to English. I am used to reading English translations.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I meant translation to English. I am used to reading English translations.

And those come from the Greek and Hebrew texts. Want to see how many different ways translations differ?

 

[lionroar0]

I looked at the article, but note that it pertains specifically to 'faith.' Faith certainly is involved in salvation, "by grace are ye saved through faith," but it is a separate topic and concept from salvation.

How so? One can't be justified with out faith.

That matches my findings. Number two does appear to approximate the general teaching. I notice references to the sacraments, and participation in them as integral to the experience of salvation.

That would apply to Catholics.

And the response, the enduring is where the faith-led good works come in, as I understand the position.

faith-led good works are the works of Christ or translated Christ working through us.

IOW a person can be a member of a church but not really come to Christ until later in life, correct?

I need to clarify here. A person can be a Christian their whole life, die and go to heaven.

Just as a person can accept Christ at their death bed and go to heaven when they die.

It's about the Grace of Christ and not about our good works.

I think I understand what you are intending to say. Sounds like aspects of the Calvinist position.

Could you please clarify

This dialog has indeed been helpful. I see some important common ground, and I also recognize some important differences. Permit me to explain and clarify those differences.

I'm glad it has

To a Protestant Christian, salvation is 100% based on the completed perfect work of Christ on Calvary. That is a constant, and is true at the beginning of one's Christian experience, and at every step of the way. 'Good works' are not part of the equation. 'Salvation' means being 'justified.' The Gk. word means, 'acquitted.' Believers receive their title to heaven based solely on the completed, perfect work of Christ, and not on any works of their own. A person is saved on the basis of being 'in Christ,' covered by His perfect righteousness, pardoned by His complete atonement. There is no need for penance, for example. 'Jesus paid it all.' Ours is to accept what is freely offered.

This sounds like OSAS.

Therein lie some significant, indeed fundamental differences.

In light of my above clarification I have to disagree.

Sin seperates man from God. Don't you agree?

Penance is the act of saying "I'm sorry" to God for sining and then putting the focus back on God instead of the sin.

Dave

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So is Peter the rock Jesus referred to or not?

 

[lionroar0]

Not in the lexicons I've seen. It is only in the Latin translations that the language appears to fit a courtroom scenario. Not so in the Greek.

John

Good old western legalism.

Peace

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Good old western legalism.

Peace

Ya mean like the RCC?

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin/N standing, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menon <4969> (5772) N,

Reve 13:3 And one/F, out of the heads/F of it, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menhn/<4969> (5772)F into death, and the blow/stripe of the death of it was healed. And marvels whole the land behind of the beast.

 

[lionroar0]

They were all wearing their street clothes when they arrived at the feast. They were given the wedding garments when they arrived. the one fellow decided not to put it on.

As for the parable of the sheep and goats, it certainly illustrates the point that those who have been saved by God's grace will manifest that in how they relate to others.

You also referred to the parable of the ten virgins. The oil in the lamps is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, not of their works.

Dave

The parable is about changing from the rags into the wedding garments. Not wearing the wedding garments over the rags.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Ya mean like the RCC?

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin/N standing, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menon <4969> (5772) N,

Reve 13:3 And one/F, out of the heads/F of it, as having been slaughtered/esfag-menhn/<4969> (5772)F into death, and the blow/stripe of the death of it was healed. And marvels whole the land behind of the beast.

Western christianity as a whole.

Peace

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The parable is about changing from the rags into the wedding garments. Not wearing the wedding garments over the rags.

Peace

Wanna make a thread on that?